Poll

How do you think Gehenna functions?

Divided in several cities/kingdoms under the goverment of a king who answers to Satan.
23 (33.8%)
Demons just lurk around unless Satan or another Demon King orders them to do something.
24 (35.3%)
It's just a dark awful place none wants to be at, that's why demon posses humans, they want to get the Hell out of there.
17 (25%)
Other (please comment).
4 (5.9%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Gehenna and the Demon Kings  (Read 98255 times)

Offline themoonlandian

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2013, 05:05:54 AM »
Tankoban raw extra for the ghosts right here for ya:


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Offline Wikkelsoee

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2013, 01:00:15 PM »
If Azazel is the king of both spirits and air, the '7 kings' theory would be plausible. It would also be the reason why we haven't seen the King of Air yet (who we guessed would be the last king out of the 8 ).

Offline earthforge

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2013, 05:43:19 PM »
Or the eighth king has something to do with something unexpected, like how Samael is associated with time. All of the elements are accounted for. There's still possibilities of darkness/light, acid, metal, etc. I don't think it's a king of air because we've been shown a few air-type demons, per what moonlandian says.
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Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2013, 06:47:17 PM »
First of, a BIG thanks to themoonlandian for the raw.

Stone demons belong to Amaimon and ghouls belong to Astaroth (if my katakana doesn't fail me).

Ghost belong to Azazel (once again, if my katakana isn't failing me).

I will try an translate the first sentence of the paragraph (please bear in mind, I have little to not knowledge of kanji, so I will support myself on the hiragana).



I think it transcribes as:

Quote
" 氣 の 王 " アザゼル の 眷属 .

" ki no ou " azazeru no kenzoku .

The kanjis: 氣 and 気 are alternative writings of the same word meaning air/spirit see here http://jisho.org/kanji/details/%E6%B0%97 and here http://jisho.org/kanji/details/%E6%B0%A3

The sentence roughly translates as:

Quote
氣 -> air, spirit

 の -> indicates possession or belonging

王 -> king; magnate; rule ( http://jisho.org/kanji/details/%E7%8E%8B )

アザゼル -> Azazel

 の -> indicates possession or belonging

眷属 -> (one's) family; dependents; household ( http://jisho.org/words?jap=%E7%9C%B7%E5%B1%9E&eng=&dict=edict )

 
Quote
Familiars/dependents of the "King of Air/Spirits" Azazel.

PD:
(click to show/hide)

Offline Paradox

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2013, 07:25:02 PM »
@Desktop Warrior
The sightseeing was a joke. (Amaimon used Mephisto's key for sightseeing)...Never mind.

About Azazel: According to your translation, it would make sense if Azazel is the demon king of both elements. (And ghosts are able to float.)
Speaking of ghosts...it would be terrifying if a demon-ghost!Shiro appears *headscratch* Is it even possible?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 04:40:18 PM by Paradox »

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2013, 07:37:06 PM »
PD:
(click to show/hide)

Why don't you add a list of the Demon Kings too? Makes it nice and easy to find.


Speaking about ghosts...it would be terrifying if a demon-ghost!Shiro appears *headscratch* Is it even possible?

Why would that be terrifying? From what we've seen, the ghosts keep their personalities from when they were alive. I think Rin would feel a lot better if he got an opportunity to talk things out with his dad.

You know, after he's done sobbing like a little kid.

Offline Paradox

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2013, 08:17:07 PM »
^ Yukio said "there is a chance that it may became evil and dangerous" http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v03/c009/7.html
What if Rin has to kill ghost!Shiro because something went wrong? Can he do this? Can Yukio do this? Or Shura?

Offline themoonlandian

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2013, 02:56:33 PM »
 
Quote
Quote
Egin is a legit last name, tho. I believe it's a Germanic last name with some alternate versions floating around too. I also found searching for info on that last name that there's a number of people with that last name that hail from Turkey as well, and another site listing a lot of Egins in Ireland. so while it could mean something there's also a chance it's just a coincidence.

Quote
I wonder if they are actually part foreign (non-Japanese)? It was weird that Ernst was given a Western name, too.

When I was watching the anime my thoughts were this: Ernst was with a Japanese woman, Yuri being half-Japanese only. And it's probably me overdoing it, but to me Yukio's skin colour is lighter, so I assumed Rin took on more Japanese qualities then Yukio did.
And of course, Kato may change the family in the manga compared to the anime, so I don't worry about this too much.

Quote
First of, a BIG thanks to themoonlandian for the raw.
Glad I could be of help ^^

Quote
Quote
Speaking about ghosts...it would be terrifying if a demon-ghost!Shiro appears *headscratch* Is it even possible?

Why would that be terrifying? From what we've seen, the ghosts keep their personalities from when they were alive. I think Rin would feel a lot better if he got an opportunity to talk things out with his dad.

You know, after he's done sobbing like a little kid.

Now I'm beginning to wonder if Shiro will appear and reveal all the secrets of the universe some stuff about his mother or something. And I'm also beginning to entertain the idea of it


And I had a random theory come up in my mind last night...
What if Rin is considered the eighth king?
Now, I had doubts when it first popped into my mind, and then I thought about this:
If Satan had successfully managed to break the Koumaken and bring Rin to Gehenna, then possibly Rin would be the second in Hierarchy instead of Mephisto. But, since it didn't, and Rin is obviously weaker than the other kings, they just placed Rin as the future eighth who (they hope at least) will come and take his rightful place in Gehenna.

-A man may live after losing his life but not after losing his honour.
-A good laugh and a long sleep are the two best cures.

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Offline NeeNee

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2013, 03:16:42 PM »
^ Extremely implausible, IMO. Izumo knew about the eight demon kings before Rin's identity was revealed. If he was supposed to be the eighth king, the exorcists would only have known about seven kings, and they would have refered to them a such.

Offline themoonlandian

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2013, 04:07:31 PM »
^ Forgot about that. I knew that theory would get blown but it was worth a shot XD
-A man may live after losing his life but not after losing his honour.
-A good laugh and a long sleep are the two best cures.

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Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2013, 03:41:05 PM »
I added Lucifer to the Demon King list and clarification about ages of those we know.

I would have started to put them in order per power, but I want to wait for clarification from the official translation on what Mephisto said about Lucy being stronger than him/not being anything he can do to stop Lucy.

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2013, 10:55:02 PM »
Chapter Japanese RAW if someone wants to make his/her own interpretation of what Mephisto says:

http://www.mcanime.net/manga_enlinea/ao_no_exorcist/raws/405998/1#ver

The specific pages to be analysed:

Mephisto presents himself as the King of Time:

(click to show/hide)

Mephisto speaks of Amaimon's rank:

(click to show/hide)
Someone asked me to translate this. Btw, for the record, who's katagiriis​hida?
But I'm busy so I didn't read the thread so I don't know whats the matter here. . .
hope it will help.

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 10:57:27 PM by chinonamida »

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2013, 11:42:37 PM »
Thanks, Chino! ^^

So the official translation was correct, saying that Amaimon is the seventh and lowest king.

Which means that either Mephisto can't count, or we have a king too many.

Offline weazulgrl

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2013, 12:40:26 AM »
I think it's a counting fubar since it is mentioned the kanji used for the ba'al is read as "eight pretenders" but then they only mention seven. unless the intended was meant to be Mephisto saying there's six and him above them and somewhere in editing someone decided to "correct it" or somesuch. or maybe Mephisto is deciding not to mention Lucifer for some reason (personal dislike, Lucifer having a falling out with the rest of the ba'al and getting outed by the rest forcibly or, more likely, just passively, Mephisto being Mephisto and not wanting to show all the cards).
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Offline chinonamida

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Re: Gehenna and Demon Kings discussion and theories
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2013, 02:10:22 AM »
I understand now, I just read the chapter.

I guess you want to know if Lucifer is a demon king.

Thanks, Chino! ^^

So the official translation was correct, saying that Amaimon is the seventh and lowest king.

Which means that either Mephisto can't count, or we have a king too many.
Thats an idiom.
"dishonor the lowest seat" means its insulting for the lowest seat to have him above.

I dont know what's exactly in the official translation, but believe me, I'm right.


Quote from: Wikipedia
八候王(バール)
悪魔の王族。現在判明しているのは「地の王」アマイモン、「腐の王」アスタロト、「水の王」エギュン、「氣の王」アザゼル、「蟲の王」ベルゼブブ、「火の王」イブリース、「時の王」サマエルの7名。
Eight pretenders (Ba'al)
Demon kings' circle. The 7 we know so far are named: Amaimon (king of earth), Astaroth (king of rot), Egyn (king of water), Azazel (king of spirits), Beelzebub (king of insects), Iblis (king of fire), Samael (king of time).

so its like this:
-Satan-
1 Lucifer
2 Samael
3
4
5
6
7 Amaimon
8