Author Topic: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.  (Read 59991 times)

Offline facets-and-rainbows

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #105 on: November 12, 2015, 04:50:43 AM »
I've been thinking about it today (instead of concentrating on work...), and your/Viz's version could work if we see it like that:
Gedouin: 彼はAです。Lucifer: Aですね。しかしBでもある。
But, when I first read it at the very least, there was no doubt for me it should be seen like that:
Gedouin: 彼は1です。Lucifer: 1ですね。しかしAである。Bでもある。
What Gedouin says and the "そうですね" parts are vague, then Lucifer cuts with "しかし" and becomes very clear. Using "も" in the second clear part to refer to the first vague part sounds like it's weakening the statement. That's why I think the "も" is referring to something within the same part.

I'll try to see if I can find other opinions on the matter. But right now I have to go. Sorry.

Yeah, when I read it originally I interpreted the も more that way, like: "He's a threat!" "True, but he's ALSO my father's property, and we can't just kill him without permission." And then I didn't even notice the sentence could mean anything else until I saw people discussing it later, lol. I assumed the line break was just because it wouldn't all fit and thought nothing of it, but now I'm looking at it and there IS some weird white space there...So it's a lot more ambiguous than I thought at first.

Though I still would be surprised to see Lucy calling Rin a god. Have we ever seen even a low-level demon do that? They're usually calling him a prince or saying he has "God's flame" instead of directly calling him a god, while we have a lot of examples of Satan being referred to as the god of demons. If Neuhaus's familiars aren't impressed enough by Rin to call him God, than why would Lucifer do it?

It IS an awkward line break though...

Oh, language. So confusing sometimes XD

Offline Madow

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2015, 08:31:37 PM »
I always thought that it was because he might be a god in Lucifers eyes as its said he's the only one in Assiah that has a body but with his powers in Gehenna besides Yukio maybe. Lucifer is looking for a host body for Satan, he would have a huge leap in that field if he ever did capture Rin, I mean he already has completed making a Gehenna gate how much else does he want to do besides bringing Satan to Assiah?

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #107 on: November 13, 2015, 11:10:49 PM »
I'll try to see if I can find other opinions on the matter. But right now I have to go. Sorry.
So, quickly, I've asked other people (native Japanese and non-native) and the conclusion is:
It would clearly be my version if it was written "AであるしBでもある。" or "AでありBでもある。" or "Aです。Bでもある。" or "Aである。Bでもある。".
And it would clearly be your version if it was written "AであるBでもある。" or "AであるBです。"
But like that, with the space and without punctuation, it's ambiguous.

Though I still would be surprised to see Lucy calling Rin a god. Have we ever seen even a low-level demon do that? They're usually calling him a prince or saying he has "God's flame" instead of directly calling him a god, while we have a lot of examples of Satan being referred to as the god of demons. If Neuhaus's familiars aren't impressed enough by Rin to call him God, than why would Lucifer do it?
Quickly again...
Actually another reason I read that line the way I did is because there's another similar line in chapter 1 which I read in a similar way. But looking back at it, it has a very similar problem (Just instead of having a "line-feed" space, it has a "bubble-shift" space. Also the fact the following sentence (or the second part of the sentence in continuation with said sentence) starts with "この" makes it sound to me like it can't connect with a determiner sentence (but I guess I don't often hear people use the "この俺さま"). And I haven't talk to other people about this other sentence, yet. Maybe it's the next thing I should do...). Sorry I don't have the specific page right now, but it should be easy to find.
[edit: page 52 in the book (can be different in the magazine).
Satan: アッシャーに存在しながらにして...
Satan: ゲヘナの神である
Satan: このオレの"炎"をひく...!!]

Also, I don't think it's weird for the ghouls or anyone to call Rin "Prince" even if he'd be a god. Because "prince" is a title while "god" could simply be what he is. So while it's not rude to say he's a god when talking about him, it could be rude to call him "god" when addressing him. Usually you call people by their name or title, not by what they are (even if what they are is a god). Or at least that's how I see it, until I'm shown otherwise (i.e. if "god" is actually a title).
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 07:08:38 PM by chinonamida »

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #108 on: November 18, 2015, 12:00:57 AM »
Actually another reason I read that line the way I did is because there's another similar line in chapter 1 which I read in a similar way. But looking back at it, it has a very similar problem (Just instead of having a "line-feed" space, it has a "bubble-shift" space. Also the fact the following sentence (or the second part of the sentence in continuation with said sentence) starts with "この" makes it sound to me like it can't connect with a determiner sentence (but I guess I don't often hear people use the "この俺さま"). And I haven't talk to other people about this other sentence, yet. Maybe it's the next thing I should do...). Sorry I don't have the specific page right now, but it should be easy to find.
[edit: page 52 in the book (can be different in the magazine).
Satan: アッシャーに存在しながらにして...
Satan: ゲヘナの神である
Satan: このオレの"炎"をひく...!!]
So, I asked other people about this part too. And apparently the "この" there doesn't prevent the use of a determiner sentence. But for the rest, it's similar as with chapter 56; if we put a dot after "神である", then it's Rin, but if we consider it being directly linked, like "神であるこのオレ", then it's Satan.

Offline Hikari Kirameku

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #109 on: November 18, 2015, 08:38:08 AM »
Ah, Japanese and your vagueness...betting Kato did that entirely on purpose too, just to screw with us.

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #110 on: November 18, 2015, 01:49:56 PM »
Ah, Japanese and your vagueness...
Well, English and every others can be the same sometimes.
YouTube.com/watch?v=N4vf8N6GpdM

Quote
betting Kato did that entirely on purpose too, just to screw with us.
Right now, that's what I'm thinking too...

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #111 on: May 20, 2017, 08:14:25 PM »


Looks like both Rin's and Yukio's trigger for their powers (*cough*) was the fear of death. Never considered this.

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #112 on: May 21, 2017, 12:56:10 PM »
^ Rin has at least three different 'triggers', all unlocking a different form of demon power. We don't know much about Yukio yet, but it's possible he skipped the first step and doesn't have a third.

Don't forget, Rin has a whole shopping list of human and demon forms, so I doubt anyone has bothered to invent names for all of them. When talking about his 'demon form' though, people usually mean his Assiah full-demon form. I don't think the existence of a (potential) Gehenna full-demon form is common knowledge.

I once wrote a list of them on MF...

- sealed/normal human form (powers sealed by KK): not quite as human as you'd think, given that he could lift a car at age 10-12. Still, good enough to fool almost everyone including himself.
- half-awakened human form (KK's control slipping): still human-looking, but can see demons. Seems to have occured spontaneously after Rin reached a certain age.
- full-awakened human form (KK's control slipping more): still human-looking, but can see demons & cast blue flames. Awakened by mortal danger.
- sealed/normal half-demon form (seal broken, but KK sheated): half-human looking, with full tail, but relatively unnoticeable ears and fangs. Awakened by drawing KK for the first time.
- released half-demon / Assiah full-demon form (KK unsheated): quite demon looking, with tail, long airs and fangs. Archieved by drawing KK (stays as long as the sword is unsheated).
- Gehenna full-demon form? (in Gehenna): Satan suggested that Rin would take on another form upon moving to Gehanna. However, we haven't seen it yet, nor do we have any confirmation that it exists.

I adapted the list of demon forms for Yukio:
Quote
- sealed/normal human form (powers sealed by KK): not quite as human as you'd think, given that he could lift a car at age 10-12. Still, good enough to fool almost everyone including himself.
- half-awakened human form (KK's control slipping): still human-looking, but can see demons. Seems to have occured spontaneously after Rin reached a certain age been present since birth or shortly after.
- full-awakened human form (KK's control slipping more): still human-looking, but can see demons & cast blue flames has blue flames in his eyes. Awakened by mortal danger.
- sealed/normal half-demon form? (seal broken, but KK sheated): half-human looking, with full tail, but relatively unnoticeable ears and fangs. Awakened by drawing KK for the first time.
- released half-demon / Assiah full-demon form? (powers not sheated by KK): quite demon looking, with tail, long airs and fangs. Archieved by drawing KK (stays as long as the sword is unsheated).
- Gehenna full-demon form? (in Gehenna): Satan suggested that Rin would take on another form upon moving to Gehenna. However, we haven't seen it yet, nor have we had any confirmation that it exists.

If we assume he was a demon from the start, it's possible that seeing demons came with the blood and that Shiro wrongly assumed it was the result of a mashou. Also, since he doesn't have a seal (as far as we know), I guess he won't be able to go back and forth between normal and activated half-demon like Rin does.

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #113 on: May 21, 2017, 05:34:55 PM »
If, for whatever reason, we do use the anime in this, Kurikara also gives Yukio his "full Assiah demon" form. He unsheathed it when they were falling, and the both of them went full form. I'm curious if that was intentional. If it was, then they share a heart. I think.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 05:41:43 PM by Kittykat »

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #114 on: June 30, 2017, 05:06:12 PM »


This is from Viz's translation. Does the fact that Lucifer sensed Yukio too mean something?

Offline earthforge

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #115 on: August 03, 2017, 03:16:41 PM »
So, the latest chapter has just resolved part of this mystery. Turns out we were all on the wrong track because of Lucifer's reference to Yukio's dormant powers.

The Blue Eye Incidents were all caused by Satan partially possessing / manifesting in Yukio's eyes, allowing Satan to block normally fatal attacks or injuries.

Why does Satan do this? Who knows! The bastard spends nearly all 15 seconds of his first appearance since chapter 1 spouting a string of profanity. We know that Satan is no caring father, judging by what he did to Rin. I figure that there is only one reason: Satan protects Yukio because he uses him as a spyglass into Assiah. That would also explain why Satan has also deliberately kept from making his involvement obvious before. Yukio's mental state could also have a role in what we saw, given Yukio was in total despair this time.

Going forward, I think we'll learn if this is Yukio's hidden abilities, or if it's separate. Get your ass to the Illuminati, Yukio. i kid i dont want him to go i want him to make up with shiemi and rin whyyyy

I also think something else is going on with the fact that Satan could only really possess Yukio's eyes. He didn't take over Yukio's body or mind (I'm pretty sure that was Yukio on the last panel glaring at Shima). It's like Yukio is partially immune to possession.
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Offline Kittykat

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #116 on: August 03, 2017, 05:50:00 PM »
So, the latest chapter has just resolved part of this mystery. Turns out we were all on the wrong track because of Lucifer's reference to Yukio's dormant powers.

The Blue Eye Incidents were all caused by Satan partially possessing / manifesting in Yukio's eyes, allowing Satan to block normally fatal attacks or injuries.

Why does Satan do this? Who knows! The bastard spends nearly all 15 seconds of his first appearance since chapter 1 spouting a string of profanity. We know that Satan is no caring father, judging by what he did to Rin. I figure that there is only one reason: Satan protects Yukio because he uses him as a spyglass into Assiah. That would also explain why Satan has also deliberately kept from making his involvement obvious before. Yukio's mental state could also have a role in what we saw, given Yukio was in total despair this time.

Going forward, I think we'll learn if this is Yukio's hidden abilities, or if it's separate. Get your ass to the Illuminati, Yukio. i kid i dont want him to go i want him to make up with shiemi and rin whyyyy

I also think something else is going on with the fact that Satan could only really possess Yukio's eyes. He didn't take over Yukio's body or mind (I'm pretty sure that was Yukio on the last panel glaring at Shima). It's like Yukio is partially immune to possession.

I am not saying it's Satan atm. Right now it's an assumption because Yukio thinks it may be. It could very well be his "demon." Rin also spoke differently during the usage of his flames when he defeated IK. I'll wait until he says "I'm pApA. MuaAhaHaahA."
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 06:24:08 PM by Kittykat »

Offline earthforge

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #117 on: August 04, 2017, 02:55:31 AM »
I am not saying it's Satan atm. Right now it's an assumption because Yukio thinks it may be. It could very well be his "demon." Rin also spoke differently during the usage of his flames when he defeated IK. I'll wait until he says "I'm pApA. MuaAhaHaahA."

I'm pretty sure it's Satan 'cuz there's literally only one character who talks like that in the manga. Rin at least had the same way of talking when he struggled with the flames, even though he was saying things he wouldn't say normally.

I get the feeling that Satan does not consider Yukio a "son" like Rin. See, Rin has his own source of blue flames and was referred to in chapter one as having "the blood". But Yukio? They don't share blood. I think he's just a tool for Satan to observe Assiah and will have outlived his usefulness when Satan incarnates.
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Offline Kittykat

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #118 on: August 04, 2017, 03:22:44 AM »
I am not saying it's Satan atm. Right now it's an assumption because Yukio thinks it may be. It could very well be his "demon." Rin also spoke differently during the usage of his flames when he defeated IK. I'll wait until he says "I'm pApA. MuaAhaHaahA."

I'm pretty sure it's Satan 'cuz there's literally only one character who talks like that in the manga. Rin at least had the same way of talking when he struggled with the flames, even though he was saying things he wouldn't say normally.

I get the feeling that Satan does not consider Yukio a "son" like Rin. See, Rin has his own source of blue flames and was referred to in chapter one as having "the blood". But Yukio? They don't share blood. I think he's just a tool for Satan to observe Assiah and will have outlived his usefulness when Satan incarnates.

They're twins. Their genetic makeup is similar, not like identical, but still. Fraternal just means two different placentas. Just because Yukio wasn't blazing like Rin doesn't mean he was completely human from the start. (Of course we also don't know full details of how the twins relate to the clone experiment other than daddy may be a clone, so I'm waiting for confirmation on that one too). I don't doubt that Satan doesn't claim him because Yukio was probably to have been reported to have no demonic powers, but they should have picked up on his intelligence. Then again, that's what Mephisto defines people as being human, the desire to know, so he probably shrugged it off as being human. It's very possible it is Satan, but I'm still going to wait. She likes to give us unexpected twists. For all we know it could be someone else, Asmodeus or something. Lol.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 03:30:03 AM by Kittykat »

Offline BennieNC

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Re: Yukio's potential demon powers discussion.
« Reply #119 on: August 05, 2017, 01:52:50 AM »
I am not saying it's Satan atm. Right now it's an assumption because Yukio thinks it may be. It could very well be his "demon." Rin also spoke differently during the usage of his flames when he defeated IK. I'll wait until he says "I'm pApA. MuaAhaHaahA."

I'm pretty sure it's Satan 'cuz there's literally only one character who talks like that in the manga. Rin at least had the same way of talking when he struggled with the flames, even though he was saying things he wouldn't say normally.

I get the feeling that Satan does not consider Yukio a "son" like Rin. See, Rin has his own source of blue flames and was referred to in chapter one as having "the blood". But Yukio? They don't share blood. I think he's just a tool for Satan to observe Assiah and will have outlived his usefulness when Satan incarnates.

They're twins. Their genetic makeup is similar, not like identical, but still. Fraternal just means two different placentas. Just because Yukio wasn't blazing like Rin doesn't mean he was completely human from the start. (Of course we also don't know full details of how the twins relate to the clone experiment other than daddy may be a clone, so I'm waiting for confirmation on that one too). I don't doubt that Satan doesn't claim him because Yukio was probably to have been reported to have no demonic powers, but they should have picked up on his intelligence. Then again, that's what Mephisto defines people as being human, the desire to know, so he probably shrugged it off as being human. It's very possible it is Satan, but I'm still going to wait. She likes to give us unexpected twists. For all we know it could be someone else, Asmodeus or something. Lol.

Pretty sure it's Satan. Just because he has done the eye possesion thing before. http://mangalife.us/read-online/Ao-No-Exorcist-chapter-7-page-35.html
He possesed Neuhaus on the Blue Night. That's how he lost his ete.
Which actually makes me wonder if Neuhaus is a clone too. He only lost his eye after Satan possed it. And that was after he burned Neuhaus' family.
I'm rereading the manga atm. Just too look for more clues (and cause the hiatus is comming :D)
Small anecdote. It's writen in Yukio's student profile (in the first volume) that he always had terrible eyesight. Hmmmm just how long was Satan watching?