Author Topic: Crack theories  (Read 145179 times)

Offline tardar-sauce

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #135 on: December 10, 2013, 02:45:02 AM »
I was aiming more for "The structure they built to boot Satan out of Assiah".

Aliens works too. Interplanetary warfare with alien semi-material spirit things and human magic and shit! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH.

Actually if they're creatures that come in through another dimension.... THEY ARE ALIENS. THEY ARE ALIENS FROM ANOTHER DIMENSION.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 02:47:24 AM by tardar-sauce »

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #136 on: December 10, 2013, 02:53:26 AM »
Maybe I should go to bed... I don't think I will be making anymore sense...actually, I think I will become even more incoherent as time goes by...

Offline tardar-sauce

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #137 on: December 10, 2013, 03:29:49 AM »
But I enjoy being crack-y with you. :(

(By the way, I was going to change the thing from before to "human souls run away from Gehenna" instead of being booted out. )

Though, when you were saying something earlier about how the kamis separated the "material" out of the nothingness. That could certainly give rise to a "new" world that had historical evidence from the "old" world. Gehenna and Assiah are equally new. The original dimension was neither Assiah nor Gehenna.

I still like my "souls are from Gehenna, humanity is all part kami" theory. :< Even if the split was supposed to occur billions of years ago.



Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #138 on: December 10, 2013, 12:53:49 PM »
Yeah, if Assiah and Gehena as we know them today were created by taking separating certain elements from an original world it kind of doesn't matter what element was preponderant in that world, both Assiah and Gehena are new.

About the geological history of Assiah, Kazue can always pull a Haruhi.

Offline tardar-sauce

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #139 on: December 10, 2013, 07:03:43 PM »
But I don't want her to just say "it's all fake".  :(


Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #140 on: December 11, 2013, 12:19:01 AM »
JjAJAJAJAJ...well, I don't see it happening any time soon. Nah, most mangas and stories in general that bring up a supernatural elements either ignore the creation of the world or ignore scientific evidence.

Offline Elaedan

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #141 on: December 11, 2013, 08:18:57 PM »
Well I hace read your ideas in multiple threads but I think that I will include mine here! Your ideas are awesome, but I have also a couple of theories which aren't complete but hunches mostly xP


So why demons want to posses things and come to Assiah?
First thought that crossed my mind in that they maybe weren't created as bad guys in the beginning, they may have been malevolent but they got the desire for material and Assiah by accidentally first time crossing the veil and possessing somehting. For example you don't know what some thing is before you have tried it (what is cold, how it feels to be sick or hurt). Maybe demons themselves hadn't emotions, but when they got hold of body or thing they got the taste of what feels to be "alive or living" and they got hooked. Now was they want to feel it again and be as lucky as the beings able to be alive, they try to get host through whom they can live through and feel all the glorious things of live.

What kind of place is Gehenna?
Well it could be nothingness and dull place, but I like to think it that there is nothingness but then there is desert and wilderness like in anime scene were Mephisto phones Amaimon who was in Gehenna slaughtering lesser demons. And was in Demon's Etiquette also some backgroud when Rin "flew" off? And if you could somehow enter the place, could you then bring material there? I think that I like the idea of fanfics where Satan lives and rules in a huge castle or appartment, I wouldn't see it a problem to bring things from material world or if Satan indeed has God-like powers he could create thing after he has seen them (going to philoshophy again: you don't know what chair is before you have seen one ---->> demons saw all the wonderful things of Assiah and what humans created from imagination ---->> you can imitate). I really think it would be cool in some point for example to Rin get locked for a while to Gehenna and try to survive there for a while among many, many demons. I want to see the place!


What about Satan possessins Rin? What about breaking his sword?
So does we really have anything proof of Satan wanting to get Rin's body for himself? In anime it is clear but in manga I think there is only a slight reference in chapter 1 and even Satan says so I really don't think he means just to grab Rin to Gehenna and posses him himself, not straight enough said imo. And what Mephisto tells to Rin in chapter 39 is it even possible to possess a demon? Even Rin's heart is locked in Kurikara, I still think he has more close bond with his own body which is perfectly modded for him ('cause he was born with it) so it is even able to exorcise Rin's soul/consciouness or what there is away and to inhabit it? Rin is a half-demon so I don't think vatal verses etc would do the trick. And I think it is quite rare to high class demon like Satan get human offsprings ---->> how to even deal with one so powerfull one? Furthermore, why then Satan let the thing go after chapter 1 - he possibly could order demons to get Rin to him so it has some meaning that he is letting Mephisto raise him and not interfere.
And last point is that if it really comes that it is true that the real reason is Satan wanting Rin's body, I would think it a little dull plot twist. For example many other series have this kind of thing that ultimate evil wants the protagonist's body and Supernatural TV-series are good proof of that. I think Supernatural is known ebough around the world that it would make AnE too much like it, 'cause in the end hunter brothers ended up as vessels...
And what would happen if someone broke Kurikara? I think that it would just set his demon heart free - it is locked in the sword, so I think it isn't really part of it that breaking the sword would harm his heart. It would maybe just return to it's original place, to Rin's body?


And lastly, I really hope the world will stay in two-dimensions. The fresh touch which I really am in love with in AnE is that there isn't angels or heaven that fight against the foul creatures, but humans and other not-so-corrupted things have to take care of themselves. I don't know a series which there would be "Earth and hell but not heaven" so I really wish AnE would stay that refreshing way - third dimension would make me the world maybe a little complicated too :33
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 02:53:39 PM by Elaedan »
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Offline tardar-sauce

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #142 on: December 11, 2013, 09:59:09 PM »
Quote
So why demons want to posses things and come to Assiah?
First thought that crossed my mind in that they maybe weren't created as bad guys in the beginning, they may have been malevolent but they got the desire for material and Assiah by accidentally first time crossing the veil and possessing somehting. For example you don't know what some thing is before you have tried it (what is cold, how it feels to be sick or hurt). Maybe demons themselves hadn't emotions, but when they got hold of body or thing they got the taste of what feels to be "alive or living" and they got hooked. Now was they want to feel it again and be as lucky as the beings able to be alive, they try to get host through whom they can live through and feel all the glorious things of live.
This may be at least partially true.
  • Amaimon mentions "learning" human emotions.
  • Some demons tend to take on a few traits of the humans they possess. Sometimes they act like a crazy version of the person they're possessing. See: The most recent chapter with Izumo's mom, Shiratori

However, the evidence against it being fully true is:
  • Demons that possess inanimate objects still seem to have some emotions/personality. See: Peg lantern.
  • Despite getting nothing from their Assian hosts, they still possess objects in Assiah.
  • There's no evidence that Mephisto, Lucifer, and Satan (maybe) have anything left from their human hosts.

Quote
? And if you could somehow enter the place, could you then bring material there? I think that I like the idea of fanfics where Satan lives and rules in a huge castle or appartment, I wouldn't see it a problem to bring things from material world or if Satan indeed has God-like powers he could create thing after he has seen them (going to philoshophy again: you don't know what chair is before you have seen one ---->> demons saw all the wonderful things of Assiah and what humans created from imagination ---->> you can imitate).
My headcanon is that Satan can both create objects at will and use clairvoyance to see into Assiah. Amaimon can bring his human host back to Gehenna (as far as I know he hasn't "left" it in 1000 years), so why can't Satan bring back objects too?

Quote
So does we really have anything proof of Satan wanting to get Rin's body for himself? In anime it is clear but in manga I think there is only a slight reference in chapter 1 and even Satan says so I really don't think he means just to grab Rin to Gehenna and posses him himself, not straight enough said imo.

Furthermore, why then Satan let the thing go after chapter 1 - he possibly could order demons to get Rin to him so it has some meaning that he is letting Mephisto raise him and not interfere.
Satan's planned possession of Rin is fanon by this point, but in reality we have no idea how he plans to gain access to Assiah. He may well have gone with Lucifer's plan and decided he doesn't need Rin anymore. Hence, we haven't heard from him at all. He hasn't even tried to possess Rin (you would think he would have if he just wanted Rin's body.)

  • He is most likely holding off because of the "proposal" Mephisto offered him.
  • He may have wanted Rin to do all of the conquering for him. Like Rin, he has the ability to force weaker demons to do whatever he says.

Quote
And lastly, I really hope the world will stay in two-dimensions. The fresh touch which I really am in love with in AnE is that there isn't angels or heaven that fight against the foul creatures, but humans and other not-so-corrupted things have to take care of themselves.
Is this really such a unique thing? Outside of western countries (especially the United States!), where there aren't such strong preconceived notions of what a "demon" is, there are a lot of stories where demons exist without Heaven. AnE is unique in that there is a "Satan" without a Heaven, though.

It's only shows/comics that were made in the U.S. (OK, maybe Europe too, but I'm not an expert in that.) that tend to have "traditional" demons which they will ALWAYS pair with "traditional" angels and the "traditional" God.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 10:04:10 PM by tardar-sauce »

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #143 on: December 11, 2013, 11:33:57 PM »
I was thinking about Izumo helping the Illuminati...

When she suspects Takara of being part of the Illuminati her reaction is to run away.

When Pig Face says they need her now, she protests that she hasn't reached the required level of skill to perform kamioroshi.

Setting aside the possibility that she might have changed her mind if what the Illuminati want includes sacrificing Rin.

The Illuminati betrayed her once. Why would she trust them not to do it again? What guaranty does she have that Tsukumo will be safe if she does her part?

So, then I was thinking of what the kamioroshi Tamamo performed consisted on.

What if Izumo true intention was to control the Kyubi and use it to kill Pig Face&co and thus guaranty Tsukumo's safety.

It could also explain why she wanted Paku to follow her in cram school. She might not expect to be able to hold herself together for long and Paku would have to take the Kyubi down.

Offline tardar-sauce

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #144 on: December 11, 2013, 11:36:44 PM »
I like this! It gives Pig Face what he deserves.

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #145 on: December 11, 2013, 11:44:15 PM »
It would also fit with that she deliberately summoned Uke and Mike as familiars back at the Tamer test. She could have said any words, but she chose to summon harvest gods, it was obvious that it would the kitsune from her shrine to answer.

It would also cover why she doesn't want to get attached, it's likely she won't survive the Kyubi possessing her (or rather, the Kyubi being defeated) so she was afraid falling in love or making friends would waver her resolve (or they would try to stop her).

And yeah, I want Pig Face to have a violent painful death.

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #146 on: December 21, 2013, 02:03:32 AM »
Two things:

1) Papa Egin

(click to show/hide)

2) See, this is why I was saying I think Renzou's boss could be a spy under Mephisto (or the next mindfuck for Yukio in Todou's list):

(click to show/hide)

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #147 on: December 21, 2013, 03:38:13 AM »
I don't see the resemblance in the second one.

Offline themoonlandian

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #148 on: December 21, 2013, 05:13:13 AM »
That's a mask?
It looks like a beard shaven/ just beginning to grow in to me...

And for the second I certainly don't see the resemblance
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Offline tardar-sauce

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #149 on: December 21, 2013, 05:49:05 AM »
It looked like a mask to me. But, at the same time I'm hoping I'm wrong or Manga!Papa Egin is completely different from his anime counterpart.

Or Katou just reused the design.