Author Topic: Crack theories  (Read 145051 times)

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2013, 11:09:58 AM »
I think that was Bon...

Maybe the Takara family is open minded?

Or maybe this Nemu isn't really Nemu but just impersonating the son of the Takara family... I dunno if that makes any sense at all...

Offline Midori no Neko

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #61 on: October 10, 2013, 02:47:06 AM »
I think katou is waiting to pull the takara-is-really-a-girl gag until the gang starts to get to know him a little better, or at least after he gets more screen time.

Offline Isis-Lied

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #62 on: October 20, 2013, 01:16:58 AM »
Hey guys, just wanted to put in my two cents and talk about my greatest crack theories XD This is my first post so please be gentle if it sounds absolutely ridiculous (but this is a crack theory thread so I guess it's going to be, lol)

Ok, theory #1
Shiro was paladin, right? And I can't remember if it was actually stated in the manga, but he probably had every single meister class(dragoon, aria, doctor, tamer, etc.)... I think. Anyway, what if Mephisto was his summon/made some sort of contract w/ him (he is based off of the demon in Goethe legend anyhow, Mephistopheles)? Shiro was paladin and if Mephy would respect anyone/allow anyone to control him, it would be Shiro. So perhaps part of their contract was that if anything happened to Shiro, Mephisto would have to take care of the twins. It's pure crack but the idea amuses me :P

And theory #2 (which is 10x crackier than the first)
deals w/ Chapter 49. Or, to be more specific, Lucifer.
What if he's an alternative!timeline Rin? I mean, come on, their names almost translate equally. What if Rin was supposed to fall into the Gehenna gate in chapter 1? So Mephisto being Mephisto, we know he can alter time and space. And it's pretty obvious he doesn't have the best relationship w/ Satan (I don't remember what chapter it was, but I distinctly remember Mephisto calling himself a 'prodigal son'). What better way to screw w/ his father's plan than to mess w/ the timeline and cause him to lose his vessel? Now, Satan can't have two Rins running around, one will eventually kill the other; but, he can barely last more than a few minutes in Assiah. For Mephisto, it's a wonderful way to rebel, especially if he wants to keep his head.
Now, more reasons why I think this theory, while completely cracky, holds some substance:

1) Lucifer's hair color.
It seems like Gehenna can really mess w/ hair colors (or demons have some strange genes). It wouldn't surprise me if the atmosphere in Gehenna is half the reason the Demon Kings we've seen have such strange hair colors. Lucifer's hair looks light, perhaps even white, and perhaps the atmosphere of Gehenna bleached Rin's hair.

2) Being the King of Light
It's a little odd, right, that Light would beat someone who can manipulate time and space? Well, we've been told that Rin is the only one to have inherited Satan's blue flames. And they are probably the strongest power in Gehenna. So maybe light= blue flames.

3) His interest in Rin
It's clear that kings like Amaimon care little about Rin. At first, he thought Rin was completely boring. He couldn't understand why Mephisto cared so much for Rin. So why would Lucifer, who Mephisto addresses as older brother (either as a guise or kind of like a title-- recognizing that Lucifer is stronger than him), care about someone like Rin? Even if he has inherited blue flames, he's still a small fry in comparison to the rest of the demon kings. Lucifer only addresses Mephisto and Rin, telling only them to 'come to his side.' Besides, it sounds like he's doing all of this to help Satan. Which, wouldn't be too surprising, given that we don't know how time works in Gehenna. After a while, he could have given up and came up w/ an idea to merge Assiah and Gehenna instead, as a way to appease his father and let him keep his conscience (i.e., Satan throws away his original idea to use his body to take over Assiah).

4) His injuries
It seems that Lucifer can't keep one body for too long. It could be that Rin's demon heart has fused w/ his body (Satan probably forced it) and destroyed his original body because of it. However, his power has increased because of it, becoming similar to Satan. That's why his body looks like it's being burned and why he needs to continue searching for a host, one that can manage his flames.

5) Finally, his mannerisms
Mephisto called keeping your tail and heart hidden 'demon etiquette,' assuming that most high level demons would follow this rule. But, Lucifer doesn't. He's the first Demon King to be shown w/ his tail out. Now, it could just be arrogance, but his tail looks so similar to Rin's. It's like they're body opposites. Whether this is coincidence or not remains to be seen. Now, this idea will probably be quickly disproved the moment we learn more about Lucifer, but until then I'll continue to think it could happen... someday XD

Wow, that was a lot. I hope it made some sense ^^'
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Offline chinonamida

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #63 on: October 20, 2013, 07:34:52 AM »
And theory #2 (which is 10x crackier than the first)
deals w/ Chapter 49. Or, to be more specific, Lucifer.
What if he's an alternative!timeline Rin? I mean, come on, their names almost translate equally. What if Rin was supposed to fall into the Gehenna gate in chapter 1? So Mephisto being Mephisto, we know he can alter time and space. And it's pretty obvious he doesn't have the best relationship w/ Satan (I don't remember what chapter it was, but I distinctly remember Mephisto calling himself a 'prodigal son'). What better way to screw w/ his father's plan than to mess w/ the timeline and cause him to lose his vessel? Now, Satan can't have two Rins running around, one will eventually kill the other; but, he can barely last more than a few minutes in Assiah. For Mephisto, it's a wonderful way to rebel, especially if he wants to keep his head.
Now, more reasons why I think this theory, while completely cracky, holds some substance:

1) Lucifer's hair color.
It seems like Gehenna can really mess w/ hair colors (or demons have some strange genes). It wouldn't surprise me if the atmosphere in Gehenna is half the reason the Demon Kings we've seen have such strange hair colors. Lucifer's hair looks light, perhaps even white, and perhaps the atmosphere of Gehenna bleached Rin's hair.

2) Being the King of Light
It's a little odd, right, that Light would beat someone who can manipulate time and space? Well, we've been told that Rin is the only one to have inherited Satan's blue flames. And they are probably the strongest power in Gehenna. So maybe light= blue flames.

3) His interest in Rin
It's clear that kings like Amaimon care little about Rin. At first, he thought Rin was completely boring. He couldn't understand why Mephisto cared so much for Rin. So why would Lucifer, who Mephisto addresses as older brother (either as a guise or kind of like a title-- recognizing that Lucifer is stronger than him), care about someone like Rin? Even if he has inherited blue flames, he's still a small fry in comparison to the rest of the demon kings. Lucifer only addresses Mephisto and Rin, telling only them to 'come to his side.' Besides, it sounds like he's doing all of this to help Satan. Which, wouldn't be too surprising, given that we don't know how time works in Gehenna. After a while, he could have given up and came up w/ an idea to merge Assiah and Gehenna instead, as a way to appease his father and let him keep his conscience (i.e., Satan throws away his original idea to use his body to take over Assiah).

4) His injuries
It seems that Lucifer can't keep one body for too long. It could be that Rin's demon heart has fused w/ his body (Satan probably forced it) and destroyed his original body because of it. However, his power has increased because of it, becoming similar to Satan. That's why his body looks like it's being burned and why he needs to continue searching for a host, one that can manage his flames.

5) Finally, his mannerisms
Mephisto called keeping your tail and heart hidden 'demon etiquette,' assuming that most high level demons would follow this rule. But, Lucifer doesn't. He's the first Demon King to be shown w/ his tail out. Now, it could just be arrogance, but his tail looks so similar to Rin's. It's like they're body opposites. Whether this is coincidence or not remains to be seen. Now, this idea will probably be quickly disproved the moment we learn more about Lucifer, but until then I'll continue to think it could happen... someday XD

Wow, that was a lot. I hope it made some sense ^^'

It's nice, but there's contradictions.

You say Mephisto could have messed with the timeline and caused Satan to lose his vessel.
Then, you say Satan can't have two Rins running around, because one will eventually kill the other.
But if theres two rin, then satan didnt lose his vessel.

Also you say Satan probably forced Rin's demon heart to fused with his body to make him more powerful. But why would he do that? If he does, he cant use rin's body as a vessel. (If it even works, that is.)
Later, you say its rin's plan instead. That, to make Satan throws away his original idea to use his body as a vessel to take over Assiah, he came up with the idea to merge Assiah and Gehenna.
But, you'd agree, rin had no way to came up with a plan like that right after being taken to Gehenna. So it would mean Satan, for some reasons, had or decided to wait before using rin's body as his vessel and in the meantime, somehow, rin managed to learn enough stuff to come up with the plan and convince Satan it was best.
. . . Or maybe it didnt worked. Maybe Satan couldnt use rin's body. So thats why he or Rin eventually came up with plan b. then it would somewhat work.



A few other things.

You say that we don't know how time works in Gehenna. But surprisingly, we do. Theres a scene in the chapter "demons' etiquette" where Mephisto is making instant ramen and brings Rin to Gehenna for 5 minutes, the time the ramen cooks, and goes back to Assiah in time to eat them.

You say why someone as strong as Lucifer would care about Rin if even Amaimon didnt. But then, why would Mephisto care about Rin if Amaimon didnt.
Because its not about strenght, but insight, I believe.

Finally, I dont think light could equal blue flames. Because theres demons like seraphin who are kin to the king of light and they seem to use light.
If light = blue flames, then it means all these demons can use blue flames.

Offline Isis-Lied

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2013, 11:14:32 AM »
Whoops, I messed up my own explanation XD

What I meant was that, to a degree, Satan would help Rin hone/control his flames. I mean, he probably doesn't know for sure that Rin's body will work. Sometime during Rin's training either a) he accidentally burns/kills his human body (or Satan tries and kills the body himself) and takes on a different host, escaping to Assiah (we don't know how long Lucifer can keep a body until it becomes virtually unusable) and formulating a plan there, where Satan can't touch him or b) His training could take a while, and during that time Rin develops a plan that will let him keep his conscience (odds are, after taking over his body, Satan would destroy his human soul). Perhaps he even heard from Satan himself that Assiah and Gehenna were originally one universe, fueling his idea.

Second, about Mephisto. He's immediately interested in current!Rin because he's the one who messed with the timeline. We don't know Mephisto's true motives, but we do know he wants to keep Rin alive for his plan. I always thought that Mephisto was using current!Rin to both take out Lucifer and Satan, allowing him to usurp the throne. And after caring for Rin/helping him all this time, he could easily surprise and kill him, leaving Mephisto as the strongest being in both Gehenna and Assiah.

So, time in Gehenna. True, it was for five minutes that Rin and Mephy were in Gehenna, but, once again, Mephy can mess w/ time. He could have made it so time in Gehenna= time in Assiah. Or, it could be a lie. Mephisto himself states that he can't close a Gehenna gate/create one. And from what we know, a demon can pass from Assiah to Gehenna from either a) going through a Gehenna gate or b) dying/losing their host and having their soul/conscience sent back to Gehenna. But who knows; Mephisto could have a secret way of getting in to Gehenna. I just didn't feel like that was Gehenna at all, granted that we only saw Amaimon and no other demons (a bit strange, given that there seem to be many in Assiah and exorcists are sending them straight back to Gehenna all the time).

Finally, about Lucifer's power over light. We don't know how Demon Kings get their titles or even the powers that Satan has. But, perhaps since the flames do give out a lot of light, Rin could also be given that title. It sounds a bit better than 'king of blue flames' imo. Not to mention that it plays w/ Lucifer's biblical past and fits for what happened to him in this theory (Rin 'fell' from Assiah (Heaven) and ended up in Gehenna (Hell)). As for his familiars, it could be that there were always those demons to begin w/ and Rin/Lucifer is the only one who can control them. Because right now, current!Rin has only been able to control weak-level demons. We also haven't gotten to see him interact w/ any of the Light demons.

So yep ^^' I know it's ridiculous but I've always liked the thought of characters having to fight their own inner demons; it would just be interesting if Rin had to fight a personified version of all the darkness inside him.
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Offline chinonamida

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #65 on: October 20, 2013, 01:22:42 PM »
^I see

Mephisto himself states that he can't close a Gehenna gate/create one. And from what we know, a demon can pass from Assiah to Gehenna from either a) going through a Gehenna gate or b) dying/losing their host and having their soul/conscience sent back to Gehenna. But who knows; Mephisto could have a secret way of getting in to Gehenna.
Phantom trains can travel between Gehenna and Assiah. So it would make sense Mephisto himself can do it as well.

Offline Isis-Lied

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2013, 04:04:40 PM »
Lol, I totally forgot about those trains. Now I wonder why Gehenna gates are so important if there are demons who can go around that rule. I guess it's just that the gates are easier to use/provide faster access to Assiah and can have many demons travel through it at a time. Imagine if every demon had to wait their turn to go to Assiah; I could just picture some cracktastic scene w/ all these scary looking demons waiting begrudgingly in line and like pushing and shoving each other to get to Assiah XD
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Offline tardar-sauce

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2013, 06:32:42 PM »
I think there is a Gehenna Gate topic floating around somewhere. Yeah, the Gehenna Gate is more for dragging "possessed" humans and half demons into Gehenna without discarding their human body. Satan can also only make it when he is in Assiah.

That artificial one must be to unite the worlds somehow.

Maybe Satan can make an Assiah Gate from Gehenna, and it can be used from both worlds. That is how Amaimon gets back and forth between Gehenna and Assiah without ever leaving his host.

Maybe he has hundreds of Assiah gates and that IS how demons get into Assiah after all.

Maybe I should write to Kazue about this...

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2013, 01:19:39 AM »
I'm so sorry, this is gonna be long.

Part 1: People wanting to live in the suspicious complex near the shrine.

(click to show/hide)

That people sound like the "lotus-eaters" from the Odisey. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus-eaters )

So I was thinking if maybe the food was contaminated with some kind of fungus which affects the functioning of the brain/nervous system? Like the one that caused the Salem Witch Trials ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_and_psychological_explanations_of_bewitchment ). Or the one that takes over spiders nervous system ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordyceps ) and ants ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis ).

So then I was thinking, whose pets are the Illuminati really fond of setting free and happen to spread through spores and be really infective? Astharot's.

Because so far I wondered what Astharot thought of the Illuminati using his pets, and now I think he might very well be agreeing.

Part 2: What happened 5 years ago.

(click to show/hide)

From what little we have seen of Izumo's past, her mother was possessed, taken by the Illuminati and used as Lucifer's host.

I would say the fox is speaking about this.

I think he is gonna tell about how Izumo came to meet the Illuminati and the deal she made with them to protect her sister.

Part 3: Who is Izumo.

(click to show/hide)

The fox is a bit wary about speaking about Izumo.

Shima refers to her as an important daughter. Not simply important to the plan. She is important as a daughter, so this is why I think Izumo's ascendency is the key.

I have argued many times why I think, based on her physical traits, that she has demonic blood.

Foxes are the messengers of Inari and the protectors of Inari Shrines. The Kamiki family was likely in charge of the Inari Grand Shrine, which is the main shrine dedicated to Inari.

What I think is that the Kamiki family are not simply mikos who intervene between people and Inari, but are descendants of Inari herself.

I also wanna note these foxes seem to have their own ranking system.

Part 4: Gehena and Assiah separation

Lucy kind of said Assiah and Gehena used to be one and that he wants to make it be that way again.

Mephisto questioned why Gehena and Assiah were the way they were.

So, it's time to mix religions!

Satan is called the "god of demons" and said to have created them. This always bothered me because how the hell is a half human gonna beat him? Also, if he is a god, his other full demon sons should be gods too.

However, after following the family tress of Japanese deities for generations, I came to notice something: in Shinto, the distinction between "kami" (what would be gods) and humans is very blurry. For example, the first emperor of Japan is considered to be Amateratsu's grandson (the Sun goddess), Susanoo is said to marry a princess from earth but this doesn't make his sons any less of gods than him... and I could go on... Plus let's not forget the custom in Shinto of enshrining deceased people who were important historical figures. And that there is a legend where Amateratsu and Susanoo literally grow gods out of the palms of their hands... Uff, Amateratsu and Susanoo were born from dirty water coming out of the eye of another god.

So what I was thinking is, this whole thing of Gehena and Assiah being unable to interact, the fact a Gehena Gate seems to be a portal for things from Assiah to go to and come from Gehena but not the other way around, that the most powerful demon who rules Gehena can't take over anything on Assiah without reducing it to ashes...  seems a bit more convenient for humans than for demons.

And I think the reason is because the division was actually made to stop Satan, Gehena would be Satan's prison.

Going back to Uchussma's words about demons, angels and gods being all the same. In Shinto, "kami" is practically everything, you have distinctions about yokais and stuff but the line is practically non-existent and most yokais can be understood as minor kamis.

Now the question is, how did this happen?

I think originally, it was just Assiah, with all the gods roaming around humans happily until it got into Satan's mind that he wanted to be "the boss"  and waged war against the others. And so of course, some of the "kami" followed him and when the ones that opposed him saw they couldn't beat him, they made the division with Gehena and caged him with his followers there.

The "kamis" that stayed in Assiah became what is called "gods" and the "kamis" that were left in Gehena became what exorcist call "demons".

This would be akin to the Hebrew myth on how Satan fell from Heaven.

Part 5: Tamers

So then, tamers wouldn't be simple half demons but direct descendants of the kamis that stayed on Assiah and that's why they are so rare.

Going with this, I would say Shura descends from Susanoo since she seems to have the sword he used to kill the Orochi Serpent.

Part 6: On how Astharot and Lucifer took over the Grand Shrine

If the Kamikis are direct descendants of Inari, chances are that they didn't intervene between Inari and the people but they were actually the ones to use their powers to help with the harvest.

Astharot would have unleashed his power causing disease in the area beyond what Tama could fight. This caused Tama to fall in the spiral of despair we saw her in Izumo's dream in Chapter 50 and making it possible for Lucifer to take over her body.

Then, the Illuminati slowly took over the Grand Shrine in the absence of its main leader and polluted the food which leads to part 1 of this theory.

Part 7: Izumo's deal with the Illuminati

This way, not solely Tama and Tsukumo are threatened by the Illuminati but also the whole town.

It also would explain why Izumo hates her mother and says it was all her fault, she blames her because she was unable to fight Astharot.

I would also think that, even if she kept her plans of sacrificing herself to save Tsukumo from Paku, Paku knows her well enough and suspected. That's why she tried to follow her into Cram School and told Shiemi that it was very important to save Izumo and to call if anything happened.

Also, the Illuminati may want Izumo because, as a descendant of the kamis that sealed Satan away, she might be key to undo the border between Gehena and Assiah.

Part 8: Who ranks under Amaimon

I would say it's Astharot.

Mephisto said it was a dishonour for the King under Amaimon to have him above him.

Maybe Astharot is physically weaker than Amaimon, but his ability is much more destructive and a natural enemy of Amaimon's kin (greenmans and such).
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 02:58:36 AM by HeavenlyArcher »

Offline Midori no Neko

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2013, 01:44:14 AM »
wow O_O thts good
one thing though
Quote
Gehena Gate seems to be a portal for things from Assiah to go to and come from Gehena but not the other way around
Are you saying that demons cant come into Assiah using a Gehena gate? 'cause the artificial Gehena gate doesn't seem to be following that rule.

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2013, 01:54:58 AM »
wow O_O thts good
one thing though
Quote
Gehena Gate seems to be a portal for things from Assiah to go to and come from Gehena but not the other way around
Are you saying that demons cant come into Assiah using a Gehena gate? 'cause the artificial Gehena gate doesn't seem to be following that rule.
They come but still vias a host.

Offline themoonlandian

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2013, 02:32:42 AM »
That theory was freaking magnificent *¬*
I actually think a lot of that is gunna come true, or is going to be similar.
Epic thinking, Archer!!!
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Offline Midori no Neko

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2013, 02:57:23 AM »
Quote
They come but still vias a host.
Ah, right. But I wonder if its even possible for demons to exist without a host in Assiah. Like you said, when Satan was sealed the bad demons were forced into Gehena and could only get back using hosts. But all demons need hosts, so that means all demons were banished, even the good ones. Thats a hole in your theory. I think there was no distinction between good and bad demons when the divide happened: I think when Satan rose to power, all demons were lumped in with him, and human exorcists banished all demons to Gehena, starting the dimensional fued we know today as humans vs demons.

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2013, 03:10:21 AM »
For the record, Crack Theories is for theories that are very far-stretched/ridiculous and unlikely to come true. If you have a theory you think might actually happen, feel free to make a new thread about it. :)

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2013, 03:17:50 AM »
Ah, right. But I wonder if its even possible for demons to exist without a host in Assiah. Like you said, when Satan was sealed the bad demons were forced into Gehena and could only get back using hosts. But all demons need hosts, so that means all demons were banished, even the good ones. Thats a hole in your theory. I think there was no distinction between good and bad demons when the divide happened: I think when Satan rose to power, all demons were lumped in with him, and human exorcists banished all demons to Gehena, starting the dimensional fued we know today as humans vs demons.

Oh , I forgot to include that assumption.

I think that the barrier the kamis did when creating Gehena is what makes demons need to use a host to get into Assiah. The kamis and their descendants wouldn't need vessels because they were already on the side of Assiah when the barrier appeared, but the demons that got expelled into Gehena are trapped on the other side and can only avoid the barrier using hosts.

I also was thinking, maybe Satan wasn't the only one of his kin, but was much more powerful than the others and killed them until he was the only one with the Blue Flames left. And now it has been so many years than most demons do not remember/know and the ones who do value their lives enough not to mention the whole thing (aka, the cake is a lie).

If demons originally were not so different from humans, it would also enhance Mephisto's statement about whereas there is really a side of humanity" and a "side of demons". Maybe he is reluctant to the two worlds joining because he appreciates the differences that came to be between the species due to the isolation and thinks that will be lost if they mix fully (like you know, Australia that has weird animals because they evolved for millions of years on an unique enviroment away from any other species).

That theory was freaking magnificent *¬*
I actually think a lot of that is gunna come true, or is going to be similar.
Epic thinking, Archer!!!

Thank you.

For the record, Crack Theories is for theories that are very far-stretched/ridiculous and unlikely to come true. If you have a theory you think might actually happen, feel free to make a new thread about it. :)

But I do think it's a far-stretched, I forced tons of assumptions to make it up and have no real evidence for any of it. I actually think it borders an AU fanfic.