Author Topic: Crack theories  (Read 145011 times)

Offline earthforge

  • Meat Popsicle
  • Intermediate First Class
  • ***
  • Posts: 1822
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #735 on: February 04, 2018, 04:21:37 PM »
Welcome kiellessa! I read your theory this morning, and have been mulling it over with Tay's theory from the previous page. I think you're both onto something -- that Shiemi using her familiar is losing something, like her life force or body's integrity, so she's at a higher risk of dying.

I also wonder if the exorcist shop has a role in this. Shiemi didn't just say that she didn't want to be an exorcist anymore, she said she was going to inherit Futsumaya. That shop is special, kept in a strange location in True Cross Academy and only accessible via key. What if her life force is locked to the shop somehow?

Anyway, here I am with a (not cracky) but totally crazy theory. Feel free to kill me, I allow you. But here's what's been running in my mind these last 3 days: what if it turns out Yukio, and I mean the Yukio we've seen so far, is actualy the demon version of himself while, opposite to Rin, is his human side the one "trapped" somewhere inside him?

Not cracky at all! I thought of something similar. If Yukio's powers were simply dormant, then they were never sealed, meaning that Yukio might not have developed a human soul like Rin. Instead, he was a demon soul without any powers in a human body. Because that soul developed over sixteen years, it's largely the same as a human soul. The only difference is his supposed demon's nature. I think this would explain why Rin's humanity was imperative to protect, while Yukio's was irrelevant. Yukio couldn't be possessed, but Rin can be possessed by his demon heart or by Satan if his demon heart is destroyed. The most that Satan can do to Yukio is parasitize his left eye to observe the world.

This thought was inspired by Mephisto raising the questions of what is it to be a human or demon, and his regard for Rin as a fullblooded demon and Satan's son despite how Rin is definitely dominated by a human soul, contrasting his dismissive referral to Yukio as a child.
"There are no answers. Only choices."

Offline Kiellessa

  • Page
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #736 on: February 04, 2018, 04:27:26 PM »
I also wonder if the exorcist shop has a role in this. Shiemi didn't just say that she didn't want to be an exorcist anymore, she said she was going to inherit Futsumaya. That shop is special, kept in a strange location in True Cross Academy and only accessible via key. What if her life force is locked to the shop somehow?

Thanks! :D

And as far as that goes, if the Nephilim thing is true, it could the Futsumaya is code for the Grigori position. You can't have future Grigori potentially getting killed in active duty. Or it could be like the anime and there's a super-secret room with loads of demons and plantlife under the shed/shop, or even a gate to Amahara or something itself.

Offline Kiellessa

  • Page
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #737 on: February 04, 2018, 04:36:14 PM »
^ That is an interesting theory. Shiemi's power are insanely OP. She also was affected by how she used it against the zombie. Goes well with the theories of her being a nephilim of Shemihaza.

Something I wondered in seeing Shiemi on the cover of chapter 87 was how her hair seemed to be turning into branches and flowers... I've wondered if she was really a human or even born. Her distant dreamy nature is like a fairy child. Reminds me of folk stories of making a child of clay that is animated by a spirit.

I hope Izumo will take Shiemi back to Futsumaya and have a talk with Shiemi's mom.

Thank you! I love making these theories, so it's appreciated. :D

Alright, I've got another one that kinda goes off this theory.

So we see that after Shiemi summons that forest, her nose starts dripping blood. After Rin faints, she does too. Is it possible that even after she wakes up, her condition will continue to worsen?

One of the main points of chapter 88 was that Rin and everyone else thought that Shiemi was going to die since she gave up on being an exorcist. Even though Shiemi says she's not dying or going away, I believe that the possibility of her dying was a kind of foreshadowing. Perhaps after she wakes up in a hospital, her condition doesn't improve, and her body continues to deteriorate.

It goes back to my other theory that Shiemi isn't human, but a demon that hasn't awakened an "ego" yet. Chapter 87 was called Embryo, and I assume we'll get a chapter called Fetus and eventually get  one that's called Birth. Why? The "embryo" that is hinted at in the title of chapter 87 is actually the beginning of a developing demon heart inside Shiemi. Remember in chapter 1 how Satan described Rin awakening as being reborn? He even says "Happy Birthday!"  to him before trying to drag him into Gehenna. Maybe that's the connection to embryo. Once it fully develops, Shiemi will technically be "reborn".

Very cool theory! It seems that things were foreshadowed (or at least they were given general points of future plot lines for the manga) for the anime with how things have come to pass, so maybe the homunculous is Shiemi, instead of Michelle, like in the anime. The word choice of embryo and her own jokes (and others') about her not being quite "human" would definitely fit with that. My only issue with that theory is that she actually gets wounded and bleeds.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 04:40:20 PM by Kiellessa »

Offline Cloelia

  • Intermediate Second Class
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #738 on: February 04, 2018, 04:39:29 PM »
First of all, welcome to the forum, Kiellessa!

As I theorized before, I think there's another reason for her trembling back in chapter 58. She was, imo, just traumatized 'cause, in a way, she just "killed" humans (even if they were zombified and therefore beyond salvation) and even if she did it to save her life, it was an hard choice to take. So, in that case, she wasn't trembling 'cause of the "exhaustion" which usually results from summoning a demon and/or having it use a particularly powerful spell.

Personally, I think there's nothing wrong with how Shiemi's drained after she had Nee summon an entire forest. We got a lot of examples in older chapters that summoning requires a lot of energy and, if I'm not wrong, I think it's explained somewhere too. And the powerful the spell you have your familiar use, the more the tamer is weakened. Even Izumo, in the IK arc, asked Shiemi to let her concentrate when she ordered her familiars to carry Tatsuma.

Or the first time (even the second) Yukio summoned the Naiads. He himself commented that summoning familiars is exhausting. And Todo complimented him 'cause it'd usually be hard to summon a lot of familiars without a Tamer Meister.

So, I think that Shiemi gets drained by summoning powerful spells through Nee 'cause she essentially just lacks training/needs more training. Right now I'm not sure if it's ever been explained, but I think that if an exwire trains until they become "powerful"/strong enough to better handle their familiars that's when they can get a Tamer Meister. If so, I think that'd mean that it takes around 1 year to get a "good" control of the familiars/learn to handle the energy "expense" it takes to summon them. And Shiemi (like the other exwires) as of now, is been training only for around 9 months.

This aside, I think the main thing which it seems to impress Satan(?) or Amaimon, is the "size" of what she can have Nee cast. Like they don't expect her to be able to cast certain HUGE things/cast them for so long. Even if she starts nosebleeding and faints after a while, she was still able to cast them in the first place. And this is the weird thing. Shemihaza/her heritage influence? I think there're very high chances this is the case.

Not cracky at all! I thought of something similar. If Yukio's powers were simply dormant, then they were never sealed, meaning that Yukio might not have developed a human soul like Rin. Instead, he was a demon soul without any powers in a human body. Because that soul developed over sixteen years, it's largely the same as a human soul. The only difference is his supposed demon's nature. I think this would explain why Rin's humanity was imperative to protect, while Yukio's was irrelevant. Yukio couldn't be possessed, but Rin can be possessed by his demon heart or by Satan if his demon heart is destroyed. The most that Satan can do to Yukio is parasitize his left eye to observe the world.

This thought was inspired by Mephisto raising the questions of what is it to be a human or demon, and his regard for Rin as a fullblooded demon and Satan's son despite how Rin is definitely dominated by a human soul, contrasting his dismissive referral to Yukio as a child.

Oh, boy, I like all of this. I like the points you made. And now that I read your comment, I kinda don't find my theory that crazy anymore too, lol All you said makes sense. That's right. This whole "Yukio's never been possessed by a demon before"/looks like he can't be possessed by any demon (not even Satan) even if he's (was) a walking pile of repressed feelings, stress and so on, looked ALWAYS weird to me. I mean, he should be the top 1 favorite kind of human who any demon would try to possess. But it never happened. So what if it's because he IS a demon himself? A demon "body" without a demon soul? Something like that? Grrr, Mephisto/Lucifer, hurry up and give us answers already!

Offline Kiellessa

  • Page
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #739 on: February 04, 2018, 04:44:49 PM »
First of all, welcome to the forum, Kiellessa!

As I theorized before, I think there's another reason for her trembling back in chapter 58. She was, imo, just traumatized 'cause, in a way, she just "killed" humans (even if they were zombified and therefore beyond salvation) and even if she did it to save her life, it was an hard choice to take. So, in that case, she wasn't trembling 'cause of the "exhaustion" which usually results from summoning a demon and/or having it use a particularly powerful spell.

Personally, I think there's nothing wrong with how Shiemi's drained after she had Nee summon an entire forest. We got a lot of examples in older chapters that summoning requires a lot of energy and, if I'm not wrong, I think it's explained somewhere too. And the powerful the spell you have your familiar use, the more the tamer is weakened. Even Izumo, in the IK arc, asked Shiemi to let her concentrate when she ordered her familiars to carry Tatsuma.

Or the first time (even the second) Yukio summoned the Naiads. He himself commented that summoning familiars is exhausting. And Todo complimented him 'cause it'd usually be hard to summon a lot of familiars without a Tamer Meister.

So, I think that Shiemi gets drained by summoning powerful spells through Nee 'cause she essentially just lacks training/needs more training. Right now I'm not sure if it's ever been explained, but I think that if an exwire trains until they become "powerful"/strong enough to better handle their familiars that's when they can get a Tamer Meister. If so, I think that'd mean that it takes around 1 year to get a "good" control of the familiars/learn to handle the energy "expense" it takes to summon them. And Shiemi (like the other exwires) as of now, is been training only for around 9 months.

This aside, I think the main thing which it seems to impress Satan(?) or Amaimon, is the "size" of what she can have Nee cast. Like they don't expect her to be able to cast certain HUGE things/cast them for so long. Even if she starts nosebleeding and faints after a while, she was still able to cast them in the first place. And this is the weird thing. Shemihaza/her heritage influence? I think there're very high chances this is the case.

Thank you! :D

Oh, that's my typical theory as well. She should only get better as things go on, and the how taxing such awesome feats would be is totally normal, as would the trauma over taking a life/unlife. I was just trying to see if there was a more pessimistic spin to put on it that would temper her creation abilities to Rin's destructive ones and provide a backdrop for why she'd quit cram school.

This place is amazing. :D

Offline TipzyCat98

  • TipzyCat
  • Page
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #740 on: February 04, 2018, 05:09:15 PM »
Kinda rather serious, but a theory for why Mephisto denied giving Yukio his answers is because Yukio was rather rude about it. He did pretty much order him for the answers in a really...snappy way. While Rin seemed, calm and collected about it, and rather nice about it as well from what it looked like. So all in all, Mephisto will give you what you want if you treat him nicely.
Also, the roles are switched, Rin's the respectful one, while Yukio is really rude.
I saw this somewhere else, and I'm agreeing with them!
~TipzyCat~

Offline Taytronics7

  • Junior Second Class
  • **
  • Posts: 212
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #741 on: February 04, 2018, 09:26:09 PM »
^ That is an interesting theory. Shiemi's power are insanely OP. She also was affected by how she used it against the zombie. Goes well with the theories of her being a nephilim of Shemihaza.

Something I wondered in seeing Shiemi on the cover of chapter 87 was how her hair seemed to be turning into branches and flowers... I've wondered if she was really a human or even born. Her distant dreamy nature is like a fairy child. Reminds me of folk stories of making a child of clay that is animated by a spirit.

I hope Izumo will take Shiemi back to Futsumaya and have a talk with Shiemi's mom.

Thank you! I love making these theories, so it's appreciated. :D

Alright, I've got another one that kinda goes off this theory.

So we see that after Shiemi summons that forest, her nose starts dripping blood. After Rin faints, she does too. Is it possible that even after she wakes up, her condition will continue to worsen?

One of the main points of chapter 88 was that Rin and everyone else thought that Shiemi was going to die since she gave up on being an exorcist. Even though Shiemi says she's not dying or going away, I believe that the possibility of her dying was a kind of foreshadowing. Perhaps after she wakes up in a hospital, her condition doesn't improve, and her body continues to deteriorate.

It goes back to my other theory that Shiemi isn't human, but a demon that hasn't awakened an "ego" yet. Chapter 87 was called Embryo, and I assume we'll get a chapter called Fetus and eventually get  one that's called Birth. Why? The "embryo" that is hinted at in the title of chapter 87 is actually the beginning of a developing demon heart inside Shiemi. Remember in chapter 1 how Satan described Rin awakening as being reborn? He even says "Happy Birthday!"  to him before trying to drag him into Gehenna. Maybe that's the connection to embryo. Once it fully develops, Shiemi will technically be "reborn".

Very cool theory! It seems that things were foreshadowed (or at least they were given general points of future plot lines for the manga) for the anime with how things have come to pass, so maybe the homunculous is Shiemi, instead of Michelle, like in the anime. The word choice of embryo and her own jokes (and others') about her not being quite "human" would definitely fit with that. My only issue with that theory is that she actually gets wounded and bleeds.

Thanks! I like your theory too. However, I feel like if Shiemi really was sacrificing her life span to use her powers, she'd be in a lot worse shape then she is now since she keeps using stronger powers and uses them more and more. Plus, I think she'd age faster if that was happening due to her giving up her life span. I also think that Amaimon wouldn't be shown to be scared of her if she would just die from using her powers too much.

About how she doesn't regenerate, I think that would happen only once her demon heart reached a point where it's strong enough to cause fast healing. It's still in the "embryonic" stage at this point. Rin was born with a demon heart that was sealed in his sword so he already had strength and fast regeneration.

Offline Kannra21

  • Nyahooo♡
  • Junior First Class
  • **
  • Posts: 361
  • Be happy. Be bright. Be you.
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #742 on: February 05, 2018, 02:18:07 AM »
Yukio has a thing for hairstyles. He was in 80th chaper commenting on Shura's hair and in the future, when he and Rin will meet again, would also comment on Rin's hair. Among his dreams for the future, he also thought about becoming a professional hairstylist, but feared that others would consider it stupid, so he wanted to become a doctor to apear more mature before their eyes. + The paper has been torn in many peaces and Rin only showed one part of it. This theory might stand a chance!XD
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 11:49:47 AM by Kannra21 »
"Win a place for yourself in this world."- Shura Kirigakure

Offline HorseTechie

  • Junior Second Class
  • **
  • Posts: 134
  • Braaaaainnnsss!
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #743 on: February 05, 2018, 03:02:48 AM »
Wow... I'm really getting into this new discussion on who Shiemi could be!  (Welcome aboard also, Kiellessa!)

It does make you wonder if there is a.limit to how much and how often she could use her powers to that level. Or that Shiemi could even take it up to that level with such ease.  She certainly gifted in some way, so I am eager to see if she also is a demon, or a nephilium.

I also have wondered about Shiemi's healing skills. Apart from using the right herbs, etc, does she have an energy about her as well? 

 
Quote from: TipzyCat98
link=topic=54.msg36601#msg36601 date=1517764155
Kinda rather serious, but a theory for why Mephisto denied giving Yukio his answers is because Yukio was rather rude about it. He did pretty much order him for the answers in a really...snappy way. While Rin seemed, calm and collected about it, and rather nice about it as well from what it looked like. So all in all, Mephisto will give you what you want if you treat him nicely.
Yes... and I think the timing was also terrible.

Mephisto also was about to go on stage for an important speech right when Yukio asked. It was thoughtless on Yukio's behalf to confront him at a time like that.  So of course the answer will be 'no, leave a memo!'     

Offline earthforge

  • Meat Popsicle
  • Intermediate First Class
  • ***
  • Posts: 1822
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #744 on: February 05, 2018, 06:52:06 AM »
Kinda rather serious, but a theory for why Mephisto denied giving Yukio his answers is because Yukio was rather rude about it. He did pretty much order him for the answers in a really...snappy way. While Rin seemed, calm and collected about it, and rather nice about it as well from what it looked like. So all in all, Mephisto will give you what you want if you treat him nicely.
Yes... and I think the timing was also terrible.

Mephisto also was about to go on stage for an important speech right when Yukio asked. It was thoughtless on Yukio's behalf to confront him at a time like that.  So of course the answer will be 'no, leave a memo!'   

I strongly believe that Mephisto wouldn't have told Yukio a thing, no matter how Yukio asked. He's always done that. He smiled and brushed off Yukio's demands to know right after tossing Shiro's old job onto Yukio's shoulders. He taunted Yukio when he called in to ask about backup in the Inari arc, saying if he failed it was just because of his own incompetence. He is plenty aware of Yukio's situation, and only brings it up once in order to alert Rin.

Yukio obeyed Mephisto's orders loyally for months, initially trusting him, but gained nothing out of it. In fact, from his perspective, Mephisto simply exploited his loyalty. So why the hell should he be polite now? He was a loyal dog and it got him nowhere. Yukio also literally just came from of a freakin' suicide attempt. He completely, fully, and one-hundred-percentedly intended to kill himself. Needless to say, he wasn't exactly rational when he survived for reasons he couldn't understand. Yukio was in total rage, because nothing made any sense anymore.

Mephisto knows this. He knows everything. He knew Yukio was at the end of his rope. And he grinned that goblin grin, content to deny Yukio any answers. He was laughing at a ridiculous child who'd been stupid enough to think he deserved any answers.

This is why Yukio lost it and aimed his gun at Mephisto. Only after a gunshot hit Mephisto between the eyes did Yukio snap out of his rage and realize he'd been played all along. But it didn't matter, because all he'd had was now lost. Everything that tied him to reality: his job, his title, his recognition, was gone in an instant. Then, as if in mockery of it all, Rin breaks in to save him, reinforcing how nothing Yukio did ever mattered. Not the skills he learned, not the childhood he sacrificed. It was all pointless. He was always going to be a weak, pathetic, powerless coward saved by his older brother. So what a surprise that the only way he felt he could change that was to accept the Illuminati's offer. Yukio is tired of being powerless to keep himself from being manipulated. Even though he is with the Illuminati now, he rejects their ethos, fixating on the promised power.

Why does Mephisto consider Rin differently? From Mephisto's point-of-view, Rin is of similar status to him. Rin is Satan's son, the inheritor of the blue flames, and a demon with power greater than the Ba'al. Yukio is not. And, as Rin has said, Mephisto is an elitist. He outright references Rin's station whenever Rin talks to him. "The current you", "the way you are now", etc. are all him deliberately pointing out that Rin's status is now on a level worthy of his attention. Rin isn't worthy because he acts mature by the human definition. Rin is worthy because he is coming of age as a high-level demon, one superior in station to the Ba'al.

On that note, the only reason Rin is being polite with Mephisto now is because Rin is coming into this conversation with a cool head. He has realized that he can't afford to screw this up if he's to have any hope of reaching Yukio.
"There are no answers. Only choices."

Offline TipzyCat98

  • TipzyCat
  • Page
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #745 on: February 05, 2018, 01:18:04 PM »
Kinda rather serious, but a theory for why Mephisto denied giving Yukio his answers is because Yukio was rather rude about it. He did pretty much order him for the answers in a really...snappy way. While Rin seemed, calm and collected about it, and rather nice about it as well from what it looked like. So all in all, Mephisto will give you what you want if you treat him nicely.
Yes... and I think the timing was also terrible.

Mephisto also was about to go on stage for an important speech right when Yukio asked. It was thoughtless on Yukio's behalf to confront him at a time like that.  So of course the answer will be 'no, leave a memo!'   

I strongly believe that Mephisto wouldn't have told Yukio a thing, no matter how Yukio asked. He's always done that. He smiled and brushed off Yukio's demands to know right after tossing Shiro's old job onto Yukio's shoulders. He taunted Yukio when he called in to ask about backup in the Inari arc, saying if he failed it was just because of his own incompetence. He is plenty aware of Yukio's situation, and only brings it up once in order to alert Rin.

Yukio obeyed Mephisto's orders loyally for months, initially trusting him, but gained nothing out of it. In fact, from his perspective, Mephisto simply exploited his loyalty. So why the hell should he be polite now? He was a loyal dog and it got him nowhere. Yukio also literally just came from of a freakin' suicide attempt. He completely, fully, and one-hundred-percentedly intended to kill himself. Needless to say, he wasn't exactly rational when he survived for reasons he couldn't understand. Yukio was in total rage, because nothing made any sense anymore.

Mephisto knows this. He knows everything. He knew Yukio was at the end of his rope. And he grinned that goblin grin, content to deny Yukio any answers. He was laughing at a ridiculous child who'd been stupid enough to think he deserved any answers.

This is why Yukio lost it and aimed his gun at Mephisto. Only after a gunshot hit Mephisto between the eyes did Yukio snap out of his rage and realize he'd been played all along. But it didn't matter, because all he'd had was now lost. Everything that tied him to reality: his job, his title, his recognition, was gone in an instant. Then, as if in mockery of it all, Rin breaks in to save him, reinforcing how nothing Yukio did ever mattered. Not the skills he learned, not the childhood he sacrificed. It was all pointless. He was always going to be a weak, pathetic, powerless coward saved by his older brother. So what a surprise that the only way he felt he could change that was to accept the Illuminati's offer. Yukio is tired of being powerless to keep himself from being manipulated. Even though he is with the Illuminati now, he rejects their ethos, fixating on the promised power.

Why does Mephisto consider Rin differently? From Mephisto's point-of-view, Rin is of similar status to him. Rin is Satan's son, the inheritor of the blue flames, and a demon with power greater than the Ba'al. Yukio is not. And, as Rin has said, Mephisto is an elitist. He outright references Rin's station whenever Rin talks to him. "The current you", "the way you are now", etc. are all him deliberately pointing out that Rin's status is now on a level worthy of his attention. Rin isn't worthy because he acts mature by the human definition. Rin is worthy because he is coming of age as a high-level demon, one superior in station to the Ba'al.

On that note, the only reason Rin is being polite with Mephisto now is because Rin is coming into this conversation with a cool head. He has realized that he can't afford to screw this up if he's to have any hope of reaching Yukio.





That is actually a really good point. Yukio wasn't in the right mind at all, and Mephisto used it to twist things into a fate that went completely wrong. Though Rin is cool headed, and well mannered, with a new state of power, I still kinda feel that Mephisto enjoys it when he's respected, though he may not show that respect right back to those who do show said respect. But that's my opinion XD and you opinion is amazing and shined a better light on everything.
~TipzyCat~

Offline Kannra21

  • Nyahooo♡
  • Junior First Class
  • **
  • Posts: 361
  • Be happy. Be bright. Be you.
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #746 on: February 05, 2018, 01:58:02 PM »
Kinda rather serious, but a theory for why Mephisto denied giving Yukio his answers is because Yukio was rather rude about it. He did pretty much order him for the answers in a really...snappy way. While Rin seemed, calm and collected about it, and rather nice about it as well from what it looked like. So all in all, Mephisto will give you what you want if you treat him nicely.
Yes... and I think the timing was also terrible.

Mephisto also was about to go on stage for an important speech right when Yukio asked. It was thoughtless on Yukio's behalf to confront him at a time like that.  So of course the answer will be 'no, leave a memo!'   

I strongly believe that Mephisto wouldn't have told Yukio a thing, no matter how Yukio asked. He's always done that. He smiled and brushed off Yukio's demands to know right after tossing Shiro's old job onto Yukio's shoulders. He taunted Yukio when he called in to ask about backup in the Inari arc, saying if he failed it was just because of his own incompetence. He is plenty aware of Yukio's situation, and only brings it up once in order to alert Rin.

Yukio obeyed Mephisto's orders loyally for months, initially trusting him, but gained nothing out of it. In fact, from his perspective, Mephisto simply exploited his loyalty. So why the hell should he be polite now? He was a loyal dog and it got him nowhere. Yukio also literally just came from of a freakin' suicide attempt. He completely, fully, and one-hundred-percentedly intended to kill himself. Needless to say, he wasn't exactly rational when he survived for reasons he couldn't understand. Yukio was in total rage, because nothing made any sense anymore.

Mephisto knows this. He knows everything. He knew Yukio was at the end of his rope. And he grinned that goblin grin, content to deny Yukio any answers. He was laughing at a ridiculous child who'd been stupid enough to think he deserved any answers.

This is why Yukio lost it and aimed his gun at Mephisto. Only after a gunshot hit Mephisto between the eyes did Yukio snap out of his rage and realize he'd been played all along. But it didn't matter, because all he'd had was now lost. Everything that tied him to reality: his job, his title, his recognition, was gone in an instant. Then, as if in mockery of it all, Rin breaks in to save him, reinforcing how nothing Yukio did ever mattered. Not the skills he learned, not the childhood he sacrificed. It was all pointless. He was always going to be a weak, pathetic, powerless coward saved by his older brother. So what a surprise that the only way he felt he could change that was to accept the Illuminati's offer. Yukio is tired of being powerless to keep himself from being manipulated. Even though he is with the Illuminati now, he rejects their ethos, fixating on the promised power.

Why does Mephisto consider Rin differently? From Mephisto's point-of-view, Rin is of similar status to him. Rin is Satan's son, the inheritor of the blue flames, and a demon with power greater than the Ba'al. Yukio is not. And, as Rin has said, Mephisto is an elitist. He outright references Rin's station whenever Rin talks to him. "The current you", "the way you are now", etc. are all him deliberately pointing out that Rin's status is now on a level worthy of his attention. Rin isn't worthy because he acts mature by the human definition. Rin is worthy because he is coming of age as a high-level demon, one superior in station to the Ba'al.

On that note, the only reason Rin is being polite with Mephisto now is because Rin is coming into this conversation with a cool head. He has realized that he can't afford to screw this up if he's to have any hope of reaching Yukio.





That is actually a really good point. Yukio wasn't in the right mind at all, and Mephisto used it to twist things into a fate that went completely wrong. Though Rin is cool headed, and well mannered, with a new state of power, I still kinda feel that Mephisto enjoys it when he's respected, though he may not show that respect right back to those who do show said respect. But that's my opinion XD and you opinion is amazing and shined a better light on everything.

Yea I don't think it's about respect that much. Mephisto deliberately does not reveal anything to Yukio because all of this was a part of his plan (he knew he would join the Illuminati etc.). His goal was to make Yukio become a traitor before everyone's eyes so that Rin could lose control of himself. Everything went according to his plan except when he was shot by another person because he was expecting Yukio to shoot him instead.
"Win a place for yourself in this world."- Shura Kirigakure

Offline Cloelia

  • Intermediate Second Class
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #747 on: February 05, 2018, 02:01:27 PM »
On that note, the only reason Rin is being polite with Mephisto now is because Rin is coming into this conversation with a cool head. He has realized that he can't afford to screw this up if he's to have any hope of reaching Yukio.

*cries* I read a similar comment from you on tumblr too and it made me cry there too.

I got reminded of Rin's line in chapter 95: "Why wasn't I more understanding that time?!" Thinking about Rin trying his best to not repeat the same mistake he did with Yukio (let his fear to learn the truth about their origins take over causing him to lose a possible chance to help his brother) 'cause he still feels guilty about it is so sweet. I know it's obvious that's how things are but I so wish Rin would've said something about it at the end of his (formal) request for explanations to Mephisto too. Like: "I need to know the truth. Not only for me. But for Yukio too." That would've so turned into my second favorite Rin's line about Yukio ever (so far). (the top 1 is, well: "I'm not gonna leave him alone!")

Kinda rather serious, but a theory for why Mephisto denied giving Yukio his answers is because Yukio was rather rude about it.

Even I blamed Yukio's (lack of) manners too. But I merely did it for the sake of a joke. Honestly, I too believe the reason behind Mephisto's refusal it's not related to -how- Yukio asked to be told the truth. As already said before and as said by Kannra21 here too, all Mephisto wished/actually planned was to -force- Yukio to join the Illuminati. Mephisto knew if he'd refuse to give him any answers, Yukio would've gone looking for them elsewhere. Therefore, he refused to tell Yukio the truth. As pointed out by earthy too, Yukio already asked Mephisto to tell him the truth (in his office, right after Shiro's death), but Mephisto still refused and kept playing his videogames (so the conference is not to blame).

Also, in chapter 94, Mephisto received a call from Shima telling him Yukio was about to break 1 second before Yukio showed up at Mephisto's back. So Mephisto was completely aware if he denied Yukio those infos, that would've been the final push to send Yukio to the Illuminati. And he took that chance. 'Cause that's what he wanted.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 02:10:37 PM by Cloelia »

Offline tandem

  • Intermediate Second Class
  • ***
  • Posts: 667
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #748 on: February 05, 2018, 03:11:30 PM »
I'd like to throw some counterarguments to these theory …

What if every time she creates life with Nii-chan as a conduit (he provides the earth) that she uses a bit of her own life force to do it. That would make things EXTREMELY dangerous for her to continue using them in such a way and being an Exorcist would quite literally shorten her life. She gets taxed far more than any other tamer when using Nii-chan to grow plants.

I’m positive her mom has ulterior motives, and this is a little out there, but maybe THAT’S what she was told to her and it scared her into quitting, on top of being HUGE info [Nephilim]. She’s too far removed from being a “living concept” (as Mephisto described demons) and is a flesh and blood creature, there is no endless source of power. She can’t generate life from nothing and it has to come from somewhere... herself.

And just like how Yukio was concerned that Rin was using his flames too much (at the cost of his humanity), her power use comes with a cost, too. Her life.
However, Shiemi was with Nii-chan when she made the decision to quit in chapter 87. Moreover, next chapter she even use it, not to save people, but to create a Christmas tree for the party but unfortunately ruined the party instead. So I think it's highly unlikely she's afraid to use this power. And if it's anything about her health you would expect her mother to explicitly forbid her just like in chapter 3, but her mother was like “After hearing this, if you still insist I won't stop you.” Moreover, if it's too risky to be a tamer, she could just be a doctor or aria.

Like Cloelia said, it's quite common for a tamer to feel exhausted after summoning. Until now Bon, Shima, Izumo all have once lost conscious after using a huge tamer ability. (Though it seems like Shiemi is the most serious case due to the apparent nose bleeding, but think about it, she is confronting Satan’s son.)

Anyway, here I am with a (not cracky) but totally crazy theory. Feel free to kill me, I allow you. But here's what's been running in my mind these last 3 days: what if it turns out Yukio, and I mean the Yukio we've seen so far, is actualy the demon version of himself while, opposite to Rin, is his human side the one "trapped" somewhere inside him?

Not cracky at all! I thought of something similar. If Yukio's powers were simply dormant, then they were never sealed, meaning that Yukio might not have developed a human soul like Rin. Instead, he was a demon soul without any powers in a human body. Because that soul developed over sixteen years, it's largely the same as a human soul. The only difference is his supposed demon's nature. I think this would explain why Rin's humanity was imperative to protect, while Yukio's was irrelevant. Yukio couldn't be possessed, but Rin can be possessed by his demon heart or by Satan if his demon heart is destroyed.
We have, in fact, seen Yukio's "human side" many times. The most noticeable one should be in Shura's arc when he realized he "can't let her die". There were also times like he was worried about the exwires' life when everyone was separated at nine-tail arc, and he saved the boy at the start of the IK arc. Not to mention his affection to Shiemi, which is definitely a human thing rather than a demon thing. IMO Toudou's words were about how you can manage to control yourself even though you have some dark thoughts in your heart, and Yukio already passed this test at IK arc

(about human possessing … it's just pretty rare in this series and Yukio is no exception. His pressure isn't necessary heavier than the various people in IK arc or nine-tail arc)

Kinda rather serious, but a theory for why Mephisto denied giving Yukio his answers is because Yukio was rather rude about it. He did pretty much order him for the answers in a really...snappy way. While Rin seemed, calm and collected about it, and rather nice about it as well from what it looked like. So all in all, Mephisto will give you what you want if you treat him nicely.
Yes... and I think the timing was also terrible.

Mephisto also was about to go on stage for an important speech right when Yukio asked. It was thoughtless on Yukio's behalf to confront him at a time like that.  So of course the answer will be 'no, leave a memo!'   

I strongly believe that Mephisto wouldn't have told Yukio a thing, no matter how Yukio asked. He's always done that. He smiled and brushed off Yukio's demands to know right after tossing Shiro's old job onto Yukio's shoulders. He taunted Yukio when he called in to ask about backup in the Inari arc, saying if he failed it was just because of his own incompetence. He is plenty aware of Yukio's situation, and only brings it up once in order to alert Rin.

Yukio obeyed Mephisto's orders loyally for months, initially trusting him, but gained nothing out of it. In fact, from his perspective, Mephisto simply exploited his loyalty. So why the hell should he be polite now? He was a loyal dog and it got him nowhere. Yukio also literally just came from of a freakin' suicide attempt. He completely, fully, and one-hundred-percentedly intended to kill himself. Needless to say, he wasn't exactly rational when he survived for reasons he couldn't understand. Yukio was in total rage, because nothing made any sense anymore.

Mephisto knows this. He knows everything. He knew Yukio was at the end of his rope. And he grinned that goblin grin, content to deny Yukio any answers. He was laughing at a ridiculous child who'd been stupid enough to think he deserved any answers.
I disagree most part, but I do agree Mephisto wouldn't tell Yukio no matter how polite he was (though how polite Yukio was asking might affect how polite Mephisto was answering). Chapter 94 was a complicated case since it's the wrong place and wrong time to talk about the secrets, but we can look at chapter 44 instead. That's the most far Yukio could get from Mephisto. (another example is chapter 66)

Though I have other interpretation for the other parts. Yukio (like Rin) seems never trust Mephisto. Yukio stopped playing loyal to Mephisto just after Shiro died (with that "What’s your purpose?")

Mephisto just doesn't care. He doesn't care whether Yukio is loyal or not, angry or not, trust him or not, join Illuminat or not. Everytime his answer has been consistent : I’ll hold the info when I think it isn't the time. It’s unclear what the condition is, but IMO Mephisto never expresses it like that he will never tell Yukio, but more like something is lacking so it's not the time yet.

On that note, the only reason Rin is being polite with Mephisto now is because Rin is coming into this conversation with a cool head. He has realized that he can't afford to screw this up if he's to have any hope of reaching Yukio.
I think Rin is calm and polite because he is determined, and there is no reason to be angry or fear at this point.

(Actually I do have a feeling that both Rin and Yukio aware that Mephisto will tell the secrets once Rin is determined to ask. That’s why Yukio was so upset that Rin didn’t want to learn their birth, and why Rin told Yukio he’s going to have Mephisto tell him the truth. It will be irony if the main reason Mephisto doesn’t tell Yukio is because Rin doesn’t want to know yet)

Offline HorseTechie

  • Junior Second Class
  • **
  • Posts: 134
  • Braaaaainnnsss!
Re: Crack theories
« Reply #749 on: February 06, 2018, 04:29:51 AM »
Ooh... I make a comment and it goes whoosh! 

Yes, it simply wasn't just bad timing for Yukio, it was a snowball of events on top of the fact that Yukio ain't Mephisto's favorite.

The thing that blurs those lines is that at first glance of things, it came off that Rin was the unfavorable twin. Being put on the watch about not letting out his flames, being given a death sentence, and then that blow-up between Rin and Mephisto in his office when he was talking to them and the exwires about Shima's spy activities. Yet, in retrospect, it was part of a greater purpose.  (As we had discussed before)

It's like Mephisto is testing the twins, challenging them to see how they react in given situations. Well.. it seems Rin is becoming more of the fav for Mephisto, showing more of his hidden potential, and Yukio... the undo stress brought out the worse.  *le sigh*  ;p