Author Topic: Crack theories  (Read 145111 times)

Offline SKL

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #705 on: January 05, 2018, 06:39:40 AM »
Cloelia, I enjoy reading your thoughts and am glad you won't drop the manga. I like how emotionally charged and analytical your writing is.

Back to topic.
Yeah these aren't even crack theories at this point.
Before some of us rationalized Lucifer not needing Rin(or Yukio) as possession bodies for Satan, since he didn't try to kidnap either, but recruit (he kind of offered an invite to Rin as well that one time). Also we thought they might 'construct' a body using those immortal demons, or that they would use the info for a clone most similar to AZ-05 (Satan's previous vessel) since the file is 'suspiciously' missing. I think it was the wording in one of those chapters that made me think of the possibilities.

I only hoped it wasn't possible for Satan to possess Rin because Rin has his own demon heart that technically possesses him already. Apparently it is possible. Damn. Well now that I think about it, the fact that Rin's heart(demon power source) is blue flames that originally came from Satan, means it maybe can serve as an access point for Satan to possess.
Yukio, a grey area, seemed more likely to be possessed. It happened in the anime too.

So yes I can definitely see a route where Rin is plan(A) for Satan and Yukio plan(B)...and possibly a test tube clone plan(C). Satan obviously favors the stronger one who has flames and can tank them well (or is being tempered too). I'm guessing he won't even acknowledge Yukio since he was so weak and maybe just wanted to keep him alive as a spy-glass. But I kind of think while he disregards him, he is still curious and keeping up the observations. He might appreciate Yukio's cold demonic brutality and cunning we all know he has. The unknown factor is Yukio's strange direct link with Satan that's not quite a possession.

Rin looks like he could really use the elixir now, but I think maybe his body can barely manage to adjust without it with more severe training. Yukio would need it more though I think. Plus he has a more direct access being in the Illuminati, and I think it's one of Lucifer's methods to help him get stronger: whether for Yukio's own use of flames to do Illuminati handiwork, or to adjust his body as a potential vessel for Satan as well. All good things for Lucifer. Yukio volunteering himself as a vessel as a substitute for Rin is a possibility, or Yukio just plain being easier to guide into that position is also a possibility.

Another thing is, if Lucifer gives Yukio what he gave Toudou and the other demon eaters, will that make Yukio a demon eater of Satan? That would be crazy and more cracky of a theory if say, Yukio had the potential to take over Satan completely. Well the difference between Yukio and the demon eaters is Yukio already has a link to Satan, while the others didn't and just hunted down the immortal demons of their choice. At the very least it would make him handle the flames better I think.

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #706 on: January 05, 2018, 04:38:30 PM »
Cloelia, I enjoy reading your thoughts and am glad you won't drop the manga. I like how emotionally charged and analytical your writing is.

(Thank you, even if I'm always wrong about my theories *sighs*)

I only hoped it wasn't possible for Satan to possess Rin because Rin has his own demon heart that technically possesses him already. Apparently it is possible. Damn. Well now that I think about it, the fact that Rin's heart(demon power source) is blue flames that originally came from Satan, means it maybe can serve as an access point for Satan to possess.

I got a few more thoughts about this and what I said earlier.



It's not certain yet, but it really looks like Rin's demonic heart it's about to come out of his chest. Now, we talked over and over about Rin's demonic heart possibily been in Gehenna and all that. Now, staring at chapter 97 pic, makes me wonder if Rin's -demonic heart- was in fact inside of Rin (in Assiah) all along. But than I remembered about the thing of the sword and its acting like a gate. BUT what Amaimon said before (at least in the Viz's translations) is that Rin's POWER is in Gehenna. Amaimon never mentioned Rin's demonic heart. So the sword should serve to put in contact Rin with -his power-, not -his demonic heart-. If that's the case, then Rin's demonic heart was prolly really inside of Rin.

Then, there's this baloon speech I noticed while looking for the Amaimon's demonic heart panel. Mephisto uses these words: "Going overboard will destroy your host body. Then you couldn't stay in Assiah." So, I looked back at chapter 97: Rin's skin is starting to necrotize as his chest is sprouting flames (to release his demonic heart out of it(?)).

And I had this idea: the Artificial Gehenna Gate is still opening, there, in Russia. And this, as we said, was also part of Satan's plan in chapter 1: to open the gate, break the Koma sword and throw Rin inside of the gate. I'm not sure if I can add more thoughts about Mephisto's line since Amaimon and Rin are, essentially, two different cases. Amaimon got a host body, while Rin is "born" with his body. So I'm gonna skip this part.

But, out of all this, I got another theory. What if now that Rin's demonic heart should (I guess) separate from his body that would make Rin an "empty" shell? Maybe this is exactly what Satan is planning for. He wanted to break the sword to break the "seal" that ALSO kept Rin's heart inside of his body. Well, after all, as soon as the sword broke Rin didn't go berserk, but (after a few minutes) all he did was starting to necrotize and sprouting flames from his chest (and his body), so I guess if Rin's demonic heart will indeed come out from his chest, this should clearly be connected to the sword breaking.

And, once Rin's demonic heart will be out of him, Rin would be left "empty" BUT, after all the training with his flame power over the months, he'll be capable to sustain an even stronger flame power (Satan's) along with his (Satan's) demonic heart (if he got one?). So this is what Satan could mean by wanting to make Rin a vessel for himself? This is why Mephisto worked hard to train Rin for?

Yukio, a grey area, seemed more likely to be possessed. It happened in the anime too.

Sometimes, Kato-sama picked events from the anime and switched roles around. Like when in the anime it's Rin asking Shiro about their parents and in the manga is Yukio, so I would even expect/wouldn't be surprised if Kato-sama chose to switch roles in this case too.

He might appreciate Yukio's cold demonic brutality and cunning we all know he has. The unknown factor is Yukio's strange direct link with Satan that's not quite a possession.

Rin looks like he could really use the elixir now, but I think maybe his body can barely manage to adjust without it with more severe training. Yukio would need it more though I think. Plus he has a more direct access being in the Illuminati, and I think it's one of Lucifer's methods to help him get stronger: whether for Yukio's own use of flames to do Illuminati handiwork, or to adjust his body as a potential vessel for Satan as well. All good things for Lucifer. Yukio volunteering himself as a vessel as a substitute for Rin is a possibility, or Yukio just plain being easier to guide into that position is also a possibility.

Another thing is, if Lucifer gives Yukio what he gave Toudou and the other demon eaters, will that make Yukio a demon eater of Satan? That would be crazy and more cracky of a theory if say, Yukio had the potential to take over Satan completely. Well the difference between Yukio and the demon eaters is Yukio already has a link to Satan, while the others didn't and just hunted down the immortal demons of their choice. At the very least it would make him handle the flames better I think.

Honestly, I'm starting to think (I think too much, I know) this whole thing could be a lot more complicated. Based on what the manga stated/kept on stating/showed/proved/insisted on proving so far: Yukio's 100% human. He's not possessed, he's never been and even now HE's not possessed (unless, prolly just his eyes but there's no proof yet).

Yukio is the human son of a human (Yuri Egin (at least for as far as we know she was human. Clone or not)) and another (enhanced) human (Goro, subject 005). Yukio is 100% human. While, about Rin, my headcanon is that at the moment of conception, the same applied to him too. And, when the flame "gene" came into play, it changed things around (for Rin). Like, it "mixed up" and converted part (prolly 50% since he's considered "half" demon, but) of his human genetic heritage into a demonic one. Included his demonic physical traits like ears, teeth and tail (which were later "concealed" by the Koma sword seal alongiside his access to his flame power and/or even his demonic heart or something like that).

But, back to Yukio's case. I'm not sure if this can count as an evidence but I think if what Shiro stated it's true and Yukio (always based on Viz's translation) "couldn't BEAR it ('cause he was underweight)" maybe that means Yukio (he himself as a whole person) was born "unable" to bear a possession (and, I mean, not only for a physical matter (like he was underweight) which -I- consider something Shiro may have come up with to simplify his explanation to Rin). He just was born "unable" to bear any kind of possession.

To add to this, in chapter 86 Mephisto stated, when talking about the clones, this particular fact: "No matter how excellent the bodies were, they couldn't become possession bodies." I never thought about this. Maybe the products of cloning experiments can get this kinda "side effect". The fact that "possession bodies" exist could mean there could also exist "NOT possession bodies". Bodies essentially UNABLE to be possessed. And I thought that this could be Yukio's case. I may be wrong about this part too 'cause maybe what Mephisto actually meant was: "They couldn't become possession bodies (for the Baal/strong enough to sustain a Baal for a lot of time)"

Anyway, what I mean is: my feeling is that Yukio could NEVER really be possessed by a demon. Satan or any other kind. Also, we wondered in the past with all the shet Yukio's gone throughout his life (the stress/the frustration/his fears and so on) it's plain weird no demon ever tried to possess him during his entire life. Shura herself stated a demon could take advantage of such things. But it never happened to Yukio. Aside his eyes. Which I already said what I think about (he may have inherited them from his human father and could be the ONLY part of his body actually able to bear possession ('cause all we've seen about that Goro guy so far are only his Satan-shaped eyes and etc etc), but I'm gonna wait on Lucifer for more infos (if he -hopefully- will finally feel like sharing some)).

So, in conclusion, I don't think Yukio himself (his whole body) could ever be used as a vessel for Satan (and I somehow think this is why Satan doesn't even give a crap about him and all that and he doesn't even consider Yukio as an "option" or "plan B vessel" (or even a son (well, if Yukio is 100% son of his human father, Satan's not wrong, after all)). Unless, the elixir could come into play and do something about this "problem" and turn Yukio's body into a "possession body".

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #707 on: January 05, 2018, 05:26:19 PM »
^I think Mephisto meant that they couldn’t be prime bodies because they developed personalities which included the means to fight the possession. If we go with the theory that necrotization happens because they fight the possession, this line makes sense.

Offline tandem

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #708 on: January 06, 2018, 01:20:59 AM »
^ note their objective to establish section 13 is not to find a body to possess, but it's to find the body that can endure the demon kings' power so they don't have to change body frequently. So they are less likely talking about whether they can possess it.

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #709 on: January 06, 2018, 01:26:39 AM »
^ note their objective to establish section 13 is not to find a body to possess, but it's to find the body that can endure the demon kings' power so they don't have to change body frequently. So they are less likely talking about whether they can possess it.

They can’t exist in Assiah without possessing something. Yes, they were trying to create a stable body for themselves. However, personalities developed making it difficult to have the body which caused them to try something else, so they turned to enhancing humans to be able to withstand the possession.

Offline tandem

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #710 on: January 06, 2018, 02:37:19 AM »
^ note their objective to establish section 13 is not to find a body to possess, but it's to find the body that can endure the demon kings' power so they don't have to change body frequently. So they are less likely talking about whether they can possess it.

They can’t exist in Assiah without possessing something. Yes, they were trying to create a stable body for themselves. However, personalities developed making it difficult to have the body which caused them to try something else, so they turned to enhancing humans to be able to withstand the possession.
Note Lucifer had to change body at the time of demon king meeting (about 100 years ago), but they didn't have a proper body prepared for him until blue night. So I'm pretty sure Lucifer changed his body several times after the meeting.

I think the problem here is, it's not that difficult to find a person among 7 billion people that they can successfully possess. Many people has weak mind after all. So I think they can also possess most experimented body in section 13 regardless they developed personalities or not. But these body still collapse after possessing because they are not perfect copy. The difficulty in the experiment is to find a sustainable body, not to find a possessable body.

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #711 on: January 06, 2018, 02:56:13 AM »
^ note their objective to establish section 13 is not to find a body to possess, but it's to find the body that can endure the demon kings' power so they don't have to change body frequently. So they are less likely talking about whether they can possess it.

They can’t exist in Assiah without possessing something. Yes, they were trying to create a stable body for themselves. However, personalities developed making it difficult to have the body which caused them to try something else, so they turned to enhancing humans to be able to withstand the possession.
Note Lucifer had to change body at the time of demon king meeting (about 100 years ago), but they didn't have a proper body prepared for him until blue night. So I'm pretty sure Lucifer changed his body several times after the meeting.

I think the problem here is, it's not that difficult to find a person among 7 billion people that they can successfully possess. Many people has weak mind after all. So I think they can also possess most experimented body in section 13 regardless they developed personalities or not. But these body still collapse after possessing because they are not perfect copy. The difficulty in the experiment is to find a sustainable body, not to find a possessable body.

Yes. It tells you Lucifer has ten years before a body collapses on him. He’s tired of the pain and is jealous of how Mephisto can reverse the effects of necrosis on the body he possesses. They are looking to create one that sustains them long enough to where they no longer feel that pain anymore—even better if it lasts forever, but they are still possessing something whether it is a naturally born-Assiah body or a created one. I’m sure they are incredibly selective over the people they possess too in terms of the Assiah natives they have to choose, so it couldn’t be any Tom, Melissa, Ashley, or Joan. At least Mephisto gives me that vibe. He has to find the right kind of weirdo.

Offline SKL

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #712 on: January 06, 2018, 08:38:59 AM »
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Hmm I think this goes back to what's the definition of a human and demon in this manga. Here Rin is a ‘half demon half human hybrid’. And often, he's just plain called a 'demon'. But that's a shortened definition. I remember way back in the mangafox forums someone said Rin was 100% demon and 100% human. That really stuck with me since then. I'll go back to this in a bit.

In the manga, we've seen numerous variations of what we could call a 'demon'. But many of those called 'demons' are abbreviated terms for what they really are.

Examples of what's called a demon
-Demons with vessels in Assiah are called simply 'demons' for short. Unless it becomes important to distinguish, it's not noted every time that a 'coal tar' is a demon+dust body or the Mephisto we know here is actually the King of Time+his human vessel.

-Toudou is called a demon. But really he is a human possessed by a demon, and thus has become 'demonized'. The big difference here is that he has forced the demon to possess him and maintains complete control.

However. this is the basest definition of what a demon actually is: the 'energy entities/concepts' that live in or are born in Gehenna. They don't even have proper consciousness or sense of selves until they can form one on their first visit to Assiah (remember what happened with Satan).

When the demon goes to Assiah it's too much effort to always call it 'a demon with a vessel', so the whole packaged gets shortened to just 'demon'. That's why I call it a shortened term. Normally it doesn’t matter in context and is pointless semantics until you go down to an existence like Rin.

Rin has a fully realized heart or 'energy entity' in Gehenna. Based off of what the base definition of what a demon actually is, you could therefore say the heart is 100% a demon. I thought it was interesting this chapter (97) that Satan made the distinction of Rin's body. He called it his 'human body'. Therefore he is 100% human too. It's his 100% demon heart possessing/linked to him is what makes Rin any different from other humans.

About half/demon and mixed breed procreation , I have this from an earlier post:
I think in this theory, the key to connecting the human procreation to the demon heart procreation is establishing the link between the two to create the offspring. To do that the demon parent must be possessing an Assiah vessel. Thus after mutating some genes, creates an inheritable link between that demon type to that body type (or genes). So the offspring will be: a physical baby created the classic way in Assiah, a demon heart created via the 'splitting off' way in Gehenna, and the link between the two that makes that demon-type and that body-type compatible. I call the link 'inheritable', because thus forth the blood can be diluted until eventually (i don't know when) the offspring have no power at all created in Gehenna (no demon heart). But the link takes more time to be diluted completely, and that's when you get humans like Izumo's family who aren't 'demon' anymore but still have some inherited link that makes their bodies compatible to like-demons in Gehenna. For instance the ninetails, or their ability as tamers to bond with the smaller fox gods.

Let's get to Yukio now. Because it gets even more complicated, especially since we still don't know exactly what’s  going on with him so a lot of it is still speculation.

Like Rin, Yukio also has a 100% human body. An obvious thing to say in most cases, but here it needs to be said. Because until recently Yukio had nothing coming from Gehenna (in other words a demon: power entity from Gehenna), you could have safely considered him just that. A human and nothing else.
Now what would make Yukio anything more than a human? It would be when he gets any sort of demon power possessing his human body. A Satan-possessed Yukio would what we would call a demon based on what’s termed in the manga (shortened terms described earlier). Again pretty obvious. Until we get to the question of whether he ‘inherited’ anything from Satan.
The rest here is just speculation.

In my opinion from evidence we’ve seen so far. I think it’s a yes and no. Yukio’s eyes have a mysterious direct link to Satan. In other words his connection does not go to an individual fully-realized heart like Rin’s does, it goes to Satan. Why? Well if the splitting off theory is true, Rin’s demon heart was born from Satan, but split off and became an independent entity, thus making a separate demon and why Rin is 100% demon as well because of his heart. What could have happened with Yukio is that he got the ‘inheritable link’ from Satan, but unlike Rin, never ‘split off’ from Satan and became his own demon. This could have happened because of his weak body not tolerating it or some shenanigans done to him by Mephisto or some other during his birth. Or it could be both too. Like maybe a scenario that his body was too weak, and it’s not that the power turned away from him and left, but would have killed him if Mephisto or Shiro or somebody could prevent that, and so they cut him off somehow all the way down to his eye(s). Who knows really. But if this is all true, it means Yukio is still attached to Satan and his demon power source is Satan. Right now it looks like the control is all Satan’s, but it’s looking possible based off of Lucifer’s words that he can also drive the flames eventually. Could he ever split off from Satan and become his own demon? Maybe. Or maybe it’s permanent and he can’t.

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #713 on: January 06, 2018, 02:56:16 PM »
^ Woah, I like all these thoughts. Things are so complicated and we got so lil info to analyze. Somehow I think that finding out what exactly Yukio's eyes are could help understand a bit more of this.

Just a quick thought. Another tiny lil ray of hope I can think of which could help the twins get close, in the future, despite all, is the "telepathy" connection they manifested back in chapter 30. I mean, I REALLY HOPE this was not something completely random/an isolated case/a detail Kato-sama forgot about. I still hope there could be more behind that and that it'll play a role in the future.

I don't care how as long as it'll mean the twins could share some connection and that it could be connected to their powers. It could force them to work together to make the best out of this ability if it'd serve to some purpose. Such as "amplify" their powers and I even want to drag an anime reference (the fact that their demonic powers seemed connected and could produce some sort of phoenix-shaped flame move) into this.

Offline earthforge

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #714 on: January 06, 2018, 03:52:06 PM »
The first thing I thought reading ch 97 at the scene where Satan talks to Rin was, "is Satan parasitizing Yukio's eyes and mental link to Rin?" Like, remember the dekalp and Shiemi's legs? Nobody except Rin and Yukio seem able to hear Satan, and Satan can't contact Rin directly. He even says that they can only talk because of Yukio.

There's also that mysterious connection to Azazel. That nephilim connection has got to count for something.
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Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #715 on: January 06, 2018, 04:06:09 PM »
The first thing I thought reading ch 97 at the scene where Satan talks to Rin was, "is Satan parasitizing Yukio's eyes and mental link to Rin?" Like, remember the dekalp and Shiemi's legs? Nobody except Rin and Yukio seem able to hear Satan, and Satan can't contact Rin directly. He even says that they can only talk because of Yukio.

There's also that mysterious connection to Azazel. That nephilim connection has got to count for something.

Seems possible. Or there wouldn't be any need to send Amaimon in and out of Gehenna as a messenger. Or Lucifer and Mephisto could get in contact with Satan any time they wanted. So, yeah, I think it's really possible. So I think it's also possible Yukio and Rin actually got a "telepathy" connection (like a channel or a mental link, as you said) and prolly Satan is using that to communicate with Rin (and he couldn't do it before because Rin was never that close/Satan still didn't have a strong control over Yukio's eyes/mind/whatever).

So, wait, then do you think it's possible the first time Rin heard Yukio that connection "unlocked" but Satan took over it the moment after so they (Yukio and Rin) weren't able to communicate anymore?

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #716 on: January 06, 2018, 04:50:12 PM »
The first thing I thought reading ch 97 at the scene where Satan talks to Rin was, "is Satan parasitizing Yukio's eyes and mental link to Rin?" Like, remember the dekalp and Shiemi's legs? Nobody except Rin and Yukio seem able to hear Satan, and Satan can't contact Rin directly. He even says that they can only talk because of Yukio.

There's also that mysterious connection to Azazel. That nephilim connection has got to count for something.

Seems possible. Or there wouldn't be any need to send Amaimon in and out of Gehenna as a messenger. Or Lucifer and Mephisto could get in contact with Satan any time they wanted. So, yeah, I think it's really possible. So I think it's also possible Yukio and Rin actually got a "telepathy" connection (like a channel or a mental link, as you said) and prolly Satan is using that to communicate with Rin (and he couldn't do it before because Rin was never that close/Satan still didn't have a strong control over Yukio's eyes/mind/whatever).

So, wait, then do you think it's possible the first time Rin heard Yukio that connection "unlocked" but Satan took over it the moment after so they (Yukio and Rin) weren't able to communicate anymore?

But doesn’t Rin hear demons anyway? I.e. the naberius and Kuro. The higher level demons like Ucchusma, the whale, and Karara had shown that people could hear them. Are we sure that no one else could hear Satan other than Amaimon and the twins?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 05:47:20 PM by Kittykat »

Offline SKL

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #717 on: January 06, 2018, 09:57:39 PM »
^ Woah, I like all these thoughts. Things are so complicated and we got so lil info to analyze. Somehow I think that finding out what exactly Yukio's eyes are could help understand a bit more of this.
Yeah..hmm. There was that theory that somehow Yukio's eye(s) was transplanted from the Satan-possessed AZ-05 into the baby Yukio for some crazy reason. That's from Toudou's line 'those aren't your eyes'. That would be taking it to the most literal sense. Or he just meant what we see now: Yukio has Satan's flame through his eyes. When you look into his eyes, like Toudou and Lucifer did, you can see Satan looking back at you. So you can say those are Satan's eyes in that sense too. Remember the 'abyss looking gazing at you' line from Mephisto? Could be either case I guess.

One thing to note. Whether Yukio was born with the link in his eyes or whether they were transplanted, it's insane amount of flames they are able to tank alone. I have yet to see any ill effects like Yukio's eyes hurting or necrotizing. We've yet to find their limit. So far we've seen a massive flaming crater, vaporizing an oncoming bullet at point-blank, and snapping Koumaken like twig and blowing Rin back.
As of now, it looks like Satan really is blocked from the rest of his body for some mysterious reason. Doesn't even look like he can even move the eye. No. His control is limited to purely the flames through one small point in Yukio's left eye (though looks like the flames can spread to the right, I wonder why)

Quote
Just a quick thought. Another tiny lil ray of hope I can think of which could help the twins get close, in the future, despite all, is the "telepathy" connection they manifested back in chapter 30. I mean, I REALLY HOPE this was not something completely random/an isolated case/a detail Kato-sama forgot about. I still hope there could be more behind that and that it'll play a role in the future.

I don't care how as long as it'll mean the twins could share some connection and that it could be connected to their powers. It could force them to work together to make the best out of this ability if it'd serve to some purpose. Such as "amplify" their powers and I even want to drag an anime reference (the fact that their demonic powers seemed connected and could produce some sort of phoenix-shaped flame move) into this.
100% there with you. It's one of the things I really want see by the end too.

There's also that mysterious connection to Azazel. That nephilim connection has got to count for something.
Oh yes I wanted to mention that too. I wonder how it can come into play. I don't know too much about the properties of Azazel's power. He's the King of Air and Spirits, and it was from his bloodline that came the most successful clone vessel to date. Is there some importance to the properties of his power over the other Kings that make strong demon-holding vessels? Or was it more of a random success? Somehow I feel his power has a more intimate connection with humans. The word 'spirit' comes to mind and the 'Ghost'-demons (ie the kid in the amusement park).
Also could Rin and/or Yukio develop unique Azazel-like powers and co-opt it in a unique way with the flames? ...man idk....related to both Satan and Azazel....talk about an extreme bloodline. Next thing we know, we'll hear Yuri had some other demon king blood relation rofl.


Are we sure that no one else could hear Satan other than Amaimon and the twins?
We aren't sure yet, but I kept wondering that too. There was no 'What's that voice?' or similar from the exwires, but so much was happening at once: Yukio-face-heel-turn, broken Koumaken, flaming-eye Yukio, Rin suffering from his heart coming out...maybe it was too much to take in. Amaimon was all Father this, Father that, and Rin's "SATAN!!" So i bet they know he's there with Yukio somehow. It would be interesting if only Rin, Yukio, and the demon kings/other demons can only hear him though. One might need demon telepathy to hear him.

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #718 on: January 06, 2018, 10:32:10 PM »
There was that theory that somehow Yukio's eye(s) was transplanted from the Satan-possessed AZ-05 into the baby Yukio for some crazy reason. That's from Toudou's line 'those aren't your eyes'.

I think that theory was mine (unless someone else thought the same thing. Sorry, but I can't remember right now or I prolly missed/forgot about it if it was already mentioned). Anyway, it's been a while since I started doubting the transplant bit.

In time, I found more "believable" the theory that Yukio may have simply -inherited- his eyes (and the genes which make 'em compatible/possessable by Satan) from his human father (Goro-005) so Yukio's eyes are -his own- eyes and not "transplanted" from his father. I thought about the only close-up panel we got of 005's "face" and how it specifically focuses on the left eye of the guy. So I thought, if 005's eyes could turn "Satanic-shaped" maybe it's something like what's happening to Yukio. And Yukio may have inherited the same trait. Something like this.

It would be interesting if only Rin, Yukio, and the demon kings/other demons can only hear him though. One might need demon telepathy to hear him.

Which makes me wonder... Telepathy between demons is supposed to be a demons-only thing, right? That's why Rin can understand Kuro, or sense demons in general, and Yukio not. To be honest, I had a doubt in chapter 93 that prolly Yukio could hear Satan's voice but not understand his "language". Such as Kuro's meow which Rin understands in "human" language. I mean, Yukio can hear Kuro's meow but only Rin can understand what Kuro's "saying".

But it looks like Yukio CAN understand what Satan says. At least, from what we can get by Satan commenting about Shiemi in chapter 97 and Yukio remarking. Sooo... Yukio can understand a demon. Okay, is it a new ability he unlocked from chapter 93 too/it only works with Satan 'cause he literally lives "inside his eyes"/is it connected to a possible "blood relationship" between them which, after all, they share (even if tinier compared to Satan/Rin's)/Satan is actually "possessing" Yukio's mind (at least a part of it) too (maybe through his eyes) and that's why he can "manipulate" it like he sometimes did in old chapters (Yukio's blackouts/walking to places without realizing, and so on...)/Yukio is actually a half demon, after all?

Offline SKL

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #719 on: January 06, 2018, 11:09:25 PM »
In time, I found more "believable" the theory that Yukio may have simply -inherited- his eyes (and the genes which make 'em compatible/possessable by Satan) from his human father (Goro-005) so Yukio's eyes are -his own- eyes and not "transplanted" from his father. I thought about the only close-up panel we got of 005's "face" and how it specifically focuses on the left eye of the guy. So I thought, if 005's eyes could turn "Satanic-shaped" maybe it's something like what's happening to Yukio. And Yukio may have inherited the same trait. Something like this.
That panel stood out to me too. But it also reminded me of Yukio in a different way. Not the flaming bit, but the shape of the eyes/eyelids. Here I'm just talking about basic inheritance, not demon-y stuff. Like, 'you have your father's nose'. Remember Shura said Rin has Yuri's eyes. Yuri's eyes were more pointed and up-turned and look like Rin's. Yukio got his eyes from his human father (005) then.

Quote
It would be interesting if only Rin, Yukio, and the demon kings/other demons can only hear him though. One might need demon telepathy to hear him.

Which makes me wonder... Telepathy between demons is supposed to be a demons-only thing, right? That's why Rin can understand Kuro, or sense demons in general, and Yukio not. To be honest, I had a doubt in chapter 93 that prolly Yukio could hear Satan's voice but not understand his "language". Such as Kuro's meow which Rin understands in "human" language. I mean, Yukio can hear Kuro's meow but only Rin can understand what Kuro's "saying".


But it looks like Yukio CAN understand what Satan says. At least, from what we can get by Satan commenting about Shiemi in chapter 97 and Yukio remarking. Sooo... Yukio can understand a demon. Okay, is it a new ability he unlocked from chapter 93 too/it only works with Satan 'cause he literally lives "inside his eyes"/is it connected to a possible "blood relationship" between them which, after all, they share (even if tinier compared to Satan/Rin's)/Satan is actually "possessing" Yukio's mind (at least a part of it) too (maybe through his eyes) and that's why he can "manipulate" it like he sometimes did in old chapters (Yukio's blackouts/walking to places without realizing, and so on...)/Yukio is actually a half demon, after all?
My guess is Yukio had (or still has) the potential to be a full half-demon like Rin. Like he got the basic inheritance or genes that link back to Satan, but didn't actually get the demon heart/flames. The process was stopped or failed partway because he was weak/and or something was done to him. Remember Shiro could have just said originally in ch1 to Rin when he asked about Yukio, that there were never any flames involved with Yukio to begin with.
Instead he says his weak body couldn't take them or whatever, so he remained human and didn't inherit them. That implied there were flames there for Yukio at first, but failed to get to him. That's why I think it's both a yes an no that Yukio inherited the flames. His body has the inheritance factor, so he's got the basic blueprint for it, but he didn't inherit it since the flames never came all the way. It could be permanent damage and that it was a one chance to get it right at birth. That would mean Yukio would always have this link to Satan only in the eye(s). Or it's not permanent and there's a way to correct it with Lucifer's methods. That's something at this point we need to wait and see.