Author Topic: Crack theories  (Read 145099 times)

Offline Madow

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #645 on: October 05, 2017, 06:10:28 PM »
Theory time!

Alright, so I've been thinking about how the disappearing key would play into the story based on the cover page, and I think I have a possible scenario.

With the Gehenna Gate opening, the Order's only realistic option is to have Rin destroy it, since he could destroy a Gehenna Gate in chapter one. Since the anime had an entire plot point of Rin's sword breaking, and there have been references to the Koumaken breaking in the manga, I think it's safe to say that the Koumaken will break during Rin destroying the Gehenna Gate.

How the key fits into this is the fact that the key is described to be able to hide anything anywhere. I think that when Koumaken breaks, Rin's demon heart will be exposed, and he will use the key to hide his heart somewhere where it can't be found since if his heart is destroyed, Rin will die. Then after the sword breaks and Rin hides his heart, he will take his sword to Tatsuma to repair it and his heart will eventually be put back into Koumaken.

I find this to be an interesting possibility, mostly because it might mean that Rin would have to fight without his powers. If he can't use Koumaken, he would be forced to find another method of fighting. I remember a line Shura said in chapter 12, "What can you do without your flame?" Maybe that was foreshadowing the sword breaking. It would definitely make for some great development on Rin's part.

100% Yes. I figure Lightning would also do some tinkering with it before or after, since he was really keen on playing with it, maybe giving it an upgrade of some sort? Either way I'm interested if this does happen, how will he fight? Im guessing he's just gonna become a brawler like Amaimon since Rin himself is a power house roughly on his level.

really want a boxing scene between them two now where they just shatter the boxing ring from their hits

Offline Natsume Rin

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #646 on: October 05, 2017, 06:17:43 PM »
On the other hand, I am completely on board with Rin unintentionally absorbing Yukio's powers when they were in the womb, because...Well, not only i want to see a Demon Yukio done correctly,
 if Yukio were to know about this, he'd be fighting for something that's rightfully his.
It would also give some meaning at the line 'Give me your flames.'
I just really like this theory.
Bye bye, butterfly.

Offline tandem

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #647 on: October 07, 2017, 10:46:36 AM »
At this point, do you think Shura will remember about Yukio saving her life a couple months earlier and will feel like putting her own role at risk by helping him bail? Right now, she's the only one who cares for Yukio (even tough he doesn't consider her a friend, apparently) close enough, who saw what happened better than anyone and with the chance to do anything. So, I got this feel...

Shura was already trying to protect Yukio by shouting "don't hurt him" to the incensed exorcists arresting him. But I don't think she's gonna bail him out. This isn't like with Rin. Yukio is getting arrested for a damn good reason. She saw him holding the gun. She's more likely to demand an explanation. Almost certainly he won't tell the truth. She'll get frustrated because he won't let her help.
At IK arc, Shura put Rin into jail when he lost control, so she probably won't interfere only because Yukio is in jail. They won't kill Yukio immediately. Probably Shura will request the JP government to give Yukio to True Cross Order.

But if Shura really wants to get Yukio out of jail, rather than doing by herself, perhaps the easiest way is to guide Rin to save Yukio, since no normal human can fight with Rin.

Offline earthforge

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #648 on: October 07, 2017, 04:15:57 PM »
I think that when Koumaken breaks, Rin's demon heart will be exposed, and he will use the key to hide his heart somewhere where it can't be found since if his heart is destroyed, Rin will die. Then after the sword breaks and Rin hides his heart, he will take his sword to Tatsuma to repair it and his heart will eventually be put back into Koumaken.

I find this to be an interesting possibility, mostly because it might mean that Rin would have to fight without his powers. If he can't use Koumaken, he would be forced to find another method of fighting. I remember a line Shura said in chapter 12, "What can you do without your flame?" Maybe that was foreshadowing the sword breaking. It would definitely make for some great development on Rin's part.

I love this idea! It makes perfect sense with the established importance of the key, the references to Koumaken breaking, and Tatsuma saying if Rin has any problems with the sword to come to him. Koumaken was also originally designed for Karura. Perhaps reforging it will make it more attuned to Rin?

Rin should still be able to use his flame if his demon heart is hidden. Whenever the sword is sheathed, he can still manifest flames, just not as much. Maybe that's why Mephisto is pushing Rin to use his flames more and more, like Shura said?

If the sword is broken, it levels the playing field. Right now Rin can wipe the floor with 75% of the Illuminati easily. If he's got a reduced powerset, he'll have to learn to be creative and rely on his team more.

really want a boxing scene between them two now where they just shatter the boxing ring from their hits

Shit, I really want to see that!

if Yukio were to know about this, he'd be fighting for something that's rightfully his.
It would also give some meaning at the line 'Give me your flames.'

Hm. Yeah, that did come out of nowhere. I much preferred S2's scan for chapter 67 and explaining that moment as Yukio initially bitching about Rin's hesitance to use the flames on the zombies, and then as Lucy cornered him with "you're weak", Yukio decides screw it he didn't have time to hesitate and if Rin kept this up, he'd rather have the flames instead. That interpretation makes the Wham Line of "give me your flames" a thousand times stronger.

At IK arc, Shura put Rin into jail when he lost control, so she probably won't interfere only because Yukio is in jail. They won't kill Yukio immediately. Probably Shura will request the JP government to give Yukio to True Cross Order.

But if Shura really wants to get Yukio out of jail, rather than doing by herself, perhaps the easiest way is to guide Rin to save Yukio, since no normal human can fight with Rin.

Looks like the TC Order arrested Yukio. Altho the JP government is probably gonna want a very public punishment. Erp.

While sending Rin makes sense, I think Yukio would rather get executed than be saved by Rin. someone help this deeply screwed up child
"There are no answers. Only choices."

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #649 on: October 08, 2017, 05:10:31 PM »
Yukio was weak in the womb so the "power of the blue flame" rejected him (more or less it's how Shiro explained it). Now that you said that, I thought: what if Yukio was conceived -with- the power but since HE was weak and Rin was strong, Rin ended up absorbing his flame too? (well, after all, inside the womb they were practically one next to the other. Skin-to-skin contact) That's why they could establish a connection and Rin was able to hear Yukio calling him back at the BEI and/or this could explain that weird sentence of Yukio (which to me it's still one big mystery) "Give me your flame". Like, if Yukio had the power in him too when he was in the womb but then "lost" it, he was prolly left with this "unconscious" instinct to "call" the flame back at him.

Crack, crack, crack, crack theory. Considering Rin is able to use a small amount of flames even when the Koma sword is sheathed and that the first time he used them, that's how he "broke" the seal on the sword (Shiro: "It appears the Kurikara cannot fully suppress your power") I had this sudden idea: what if this is what's happening to Yukio too?

Like, what he can use right now is a small part of his power, just like the small amount of flames Rin can use while the sword is sheathed. And the rest of his power is "sealed" somewhere else. Now, I'm following the theory above. If Rin and Yukio were both conceived with the blue flame power but Rin absorbed Yukio's cause his body was too weak (Shiro: "Yukio was underweight and couldn't bear it", hinting that Yukio prolly HAD the power at first but then "lost it", thus, Rin absorbed it) it would mean Yukio's share of power should be in the Koma sword too.

So, what if the only way to "unlock" Yukio's real power (either it's just related to his eyes, his ability to "host" Satan in them or the whole blue flame package) is to BREAK the Koma sword?

(I also noticed this other line from the Viz's translations: Satan: "I'm a perfect being and master of MANY powers". Okay, if Viz's relatable or not aside, I was thinking: what if Yukio inherited another kind of "power" and that's what his eyes are for?)

Offline soyunapatata22

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #650 on: October 10, 2017, 06:58:34 PM »
I think Samael stopped time and shot himself (or paid someone to do that) just so he could remove the barrier, that way he wouldn't deteriorate his host more, also he could kill Angel with all the demons released and wouldn't be blamed for it. 🤔

Offline Cherub

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #651 on: October 13, 2017, 06:08:45 AM »
I think Samael stopped time and shot himself (or paid someone to do that) just so he could remove the barrier, that way he wouldn't deteriorate his host more, also he could kill Angel with all the demons released and wouldn't be blamed for it. 🤔

I once considered that maybe Mephisto had paid the guy to shoot him or the guy was on orders, but because Mepshito was a little suprised even though Yukio would still get the blame I guess he didn't? I'm imagining Mephisto going: "Hey, I heard your good at aiming wanna earn some extra cash? Good! All you gotta do is shoot me, preferably in the centre."

Damn. I forgot about Angel.. I wonder how his gonna take that on, if it was me I'd be pretty dead x3

Offline SimpleBliss

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #652 on: October 21, 2017, 10:29:07 PM »
Oh my God
I just had a thought
What if the mark on Drac's next is a result of a Morina's contract being broken??????
Lightning did say that Drac fit his idea of a traitor, but the one thing he couldn't figure out was how Drac would consult with the Illuminati over issues that he's bound not to speak of with the Morina's contract. But what if, because of his work with the Illuminati and immortal zombies, Drac is actually immortal? Or at least, was able to survive breaking the Morina's. That's why the mark is around his neck...because the contract is already broken. But he's alive. And now he can consult with the Illuminati as he pleases.

Offline Taytronics7

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #653 on: October 21, 2017, 10:47:05 PM »
Oh my God
I just had a thought
What if the mark on Drac's next is a result of a Morina's contract being broken??????
Lightning did say that Drac fit his idea of a traitor, but the one thing he couldn't figure out was how Drac would consult with the Illuminati over issues that he's bound not to speak of with the Morina's contract. But what if, because of his work with the Illuminati and immortal zombies, Drac is actually immortal? Or at least, was able to survive breaking the Morina's. That's why the mark is around his neck...because the contract is already broken. But he's alive. And now he can consult with the Illuminati as he pleases.


I've been thinking about that too. I believe that the mark is the sign that someone helped him bypass the Morinas contract. It seems too obvious for him to be the real traitor. I think that maybe one of the Grigori helped him.

Offline tandem

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #654 on: November 01, 2017, 05:39:42 AM »
I guess the chance is very low, so I'd rather put this here instead of in the place your bets thread ...


Recently the Renzou line in the story is kind of confusing. I think the biggest question is what Lightning asked him to do in chapter 92. At first it seems like probably is to follow Yukio, but we are almost confirmed that it's Mephisto who ordered Renzou to do so, and even the Illuminati has a similar command, so it's completely redundant for Lightning to say the same thing. Or he wants Renzou report to him what happens to Yukio after reading the usb contents, but it's a little strange considering Lightning should know Vatican was going to arrest him soon.

Another question is why Yukio seems to beat Renzou up pretty easily. Although there exists several valid reasons like boosting from Satan / lack of training /  caught off-guard, I just have the idea what if the two questions are the same thing :  Lightning asked Renzou to let Yukio go

Mephisto seems to order Renzou to watch Yukio or restrict his move when he displays Satan's power. Lightning perhaps intends to interrupt / break Mephisto's masterplan, and by giving Yukio the usb it's easier for Yukio entering a more unstable state. I don't know what the motive is, but it seems like a possible explanation.

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #655 on: November 01, 2017, 09:35:28 AM »
Since Shima was brought up, I had this question for a while. Do you think, aside Suguro and Koneko, Shima considers somehow Rin a friend too?

Cause if you think about it, in the middle of all this mess, Shima's one of the few characters with the most large amount of informations regarding Yukio (plus, he's the only one who actually saw with his own eyes what he's going through) but he acts like he gives two shets about Yukio and his problems (and that's okay, THEY're not friends and there's no doubt about it) but, if Shima considers -Rin- a friend, even just a lil, yeah, I understand he's doing everything for the sake of the mission and he probably really cares for his own life that much, but do you think he feels a lil guilty for knowing about Yukio (and it looks like he knows more than we think, "Is that Satan's power?" hinting he does indeed know what's really going on with Yukio) but keeping all the infos from his brother? I mean, we know Shima is not that heartless when it comes to his friends.

When Yukio threatened Suguro, Shima showed up to warn him not to involve him anymore or when Izumo tried to escape, he pretended to kill Uke and Mike. So HE does let his feelings out (even if behind the curtains) when they're friends are in trouble. I'm not saying Shima should've told everything to Rin, but, I don't know, even just give him a small subtle hint (in secret, obviously). But I guess I already answered my own question myself, hehe.

Edit: I'm gonna go against what I just said but, another random question, in chapter 93 do you think Shima was 100% sure that if Yukio pulled that trigger, Satan would have showed up and saved him? I mean, Shima's been observing Yukio's experiments from the beginning. We know that when Yukio tried to kill himself in chapter 93 he was sure he was gonna succeed because he believed the eyes' trigger was the "fear" of the death and not the risk itself. So, since he was willingly accepting the death at the time, he was sure the eyes' power wouldn't activate.

I'm guessing Shima should've thought the same if he didn't have a clue about what Yukio's -real- eyes' power is. But when Yukio pulled the trigger, Shima didn't intervene to stop him. So, either he did know the eyes' power would protect him this time too, or he's really that heartless but, I don't think so. Shima needs to bring Yukio to the Illuminati, so why risk to let him die? Argh... I want to know what Shima actually knows!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 10:22:26 AM by Cloelia »

Offline tandem

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #656 on: November 01, 2017, 03:48:20 PM »
It depends on what your "friend" means, but from your description I think you mean close friendship, not superficial friendship.

Then my answer is "No"


Instead of clarifying Rin's relationship with him, I'll compare Rin's relationship with other people. In my opinion, Rin and Shiemi becomes close friends in chapter 3, and then very close friends in chapter 26. Rin and Bon becomes close friends in chapter 4, and then very close friends during IK arc. Rin and Koneko becomes close friends because he saved everyone from IK. Rin and Izumo becomes (somewhat) close friends in chapter 5, and then very close friends because he went to save her in nine-tail arc. Rin and Shura becomes very close friends because he went to save her in Aomori arc. Rin and Godaiin becomes very close friends because he worked hard to get the eyedrop for him.

In each of the above case you can easily find at which chapter, or even at which page, the relationship between Rin and the other person turns strong. However, there is no similar event between Rin and Renzou. They are classmates and perhaps have some common interest, but their relationship is far less close than Rin's relation with other MC.

when Yukio pulled the trigger, Shima didn't intervene to stop him. So, either he did know the eyes' power would protect him this time too, or he's really that heartless
Or there was less than 1 second to react, so nothing he can do

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #657 on: November 01, 2017, 07:24:38 PM »
^Yes, that's exactly what I meant. I liked your analysis, it really made me think. The only reason why I thought Shima considers Rin a friend (even though we're not shown a lot of moments of them together) is for what happened at the beginning of the IK arc. The whole thing with the Kyoto trio trying to avoid Rin but then Shima going like "He's not that bad, he's a good guy. There's no reason to treat him like that." which gave me something like a feeling that Shima is not that "neutral" towards Rin aka may consider him like a friend (not a close one, but still a friend). But you got a point here.

Or there was less than 1 second to react, so nothing he can do

What I meant is that in between the time Yukio fell, picked the gun up from the ground and took a few moments to stare at the sky (I mean, it should've been easy to guess what he was about to do judging from the course of these actions), Shima could've intervened if he wanted to.

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #658 on: November 07, 2017, 05:00:06 PM »
Sorry for double posting.

Oh, my. I was reading this theory on tumblr about Angel possibly being the human host of Satan and it made me think of two things. All that's mentioned in this theory aside, in chapter 86 it is stated somehow that the infamous strongest enhanced human was the product of the process to create -specifically- Lucifer's possession body and not any other Baal. The scientists were somehow expecting, at first, -Lucifer- was the one possessing THAT body. But it turned out it was Satan.

AND, I mentioned this before, but let's try to stick with the manga: we're shown one pic of this strongest enhanced human, and his hair is BLONDE. Oc, if he was meant to be a clone of Lucifer, he would've blonde hair. I assumed Kato-sama left his hair white (I'm referring to the inking) 'cause she wanted to keep the real color "vague". But, as I said, I think it makes sense the clone of Lucifer would have blonde hair. And I agree with all the rest of the theory points. The whole thing with Angel conveniently not remembering about Asylum and his past and all the rest.

Now, before we bring the blood types topic up, I thought about something. What if Satan, while possessing someone, can somehow "mutate" their blood? When he opened the Gehenna Gate in chapter 1, he used Shiro's blood. I doubt Shiro's own blood would've had that kinda power while not possessed. Satan turned Shiro's blood into his "own" and used it to create the Gate. Why the need to show Satan specifically use blood to create a Gate? I think Kato-sama could've come up with any other fancy idea.

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #659 on: November 07, 2017, 09:04:20 PM »
Sorry for double posting.

Oh, my. I was reading this theory on tumblr about Angel possibly being the human host of Satan and it made me think of two things. All that's mentioned in this theory aside, in chapter 86 it is stated somehow that the infamous strongest enhanced human was the product of the process to create -specifically- Lucifer's possession body and not any other Baal. The scientists were somehow expecting, at first, -Lucifer- was the one possessing THAT body. But it turned out it was Satan.

AND, I mentioned this before, but let's try to stick with the manga: we're shown one pic of this strongest enhanced human, and his hair is BLONDE. Oc, if he was meant to be a clone of Lucifer, he would've blonde hair. I assumed Kato-sama left his hair white (I'm referring to the inking) 'cause she wanted to keep the real color "vague". But, as I said, I think it makes sense the clone of Lucifer would have blonde hair. And I agree with all the rest of the theory points. The whole thing with Angel conveniently not remembering about Asylum and his past and all the rest.

Now, before we bring the blood types topic up, I thought about something. What if Satan, while possessing someone, can somehow "mutate" their blood? When he opened the Gehenna Gate in chapter 1, he used Shiro's blood. I doubt Shiro's own blood would've had that kinda power while not possessed. Satan turned Shiro's blood into his "own" and used it to create the Gate. Why the need to show Satan specifically use blood to create a Gate? I think Kato-sama could've come up with any other fancy idea.

Well, the use of blood was emphasized later on as a component of summoning or entering a contract with a demon. Kamiki and Shiemi with the circles, and Yukio with the Morinas contract. I suppose it’s to formulate a direct link with recipients. Although I can’t say why Mephisto had to sacrifice blood to cast a spell on the artificial gate... yet he didn’t have to do anything when summoning the cuckoo clock or prison. The Gehenna gate is a summons. At least that’s how I perceived it. Not just rift to a different world like the artificial gate which would explain why it’s possessing Assiah instead. Uncontrolled and all that. And I would figure that the reason that Satan is the only demon capable of summoning it is because he’s the ego of Gehenna. This further emphasizes that the artificial gate is something altogether different.

Edit: I’m just wondering what it means for Rin if Gehenna and Assiah is merging, and the fact that the scabbard of Kurikara was acting like a mini gate to his heart (or whatever Amaimon said). If it means anything at all that is.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 11:46:35 PM by Kittykat »