Author Topic: Crack theories  (Read 145071 times)

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #630 on: August 25, 2017, 08:14:19 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Kittykat on August 24, 2017, 06:13:28 PM
If you want to use the anime, Satan-Yukio attacks with his eyes. Pew. Blue fireballs wherever he looks. Pew.

What. Really? You're kidding, right? I would check on my own, but I'd sooner eat a can of cat food than rewatch the anime-original ending again.

An example is when he roasts Tsubaki-sensei at about 5:50 on ep 24. Right before Kamiki summons her sake to douse him. Also when he fights Shura at about 14:25. Sorry. Using netflix.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 08:21:33 AM by Kittykat »

Offline tandem

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #631 on: August 27, 2017, 04:42:05 AM »
Yukio verbally admitted he hates himself later, during his fight with Todo, but I'm sure it was already thinking it back when he was remembering Shura's words.
taking advantage of the very first moment he started to run an in-deep analysis of himself resulting in his realization about his hate toward himself. And the moment Yukio realized that, as Todo said, the first step was taken.
I don't believe Yukio just started to analyze himself during the fight when he is simultaneously setting up the water spirit circle (and trying to deceive Toudou). That's not a time to do philosophical reasoning. I think a long time ago Yukio had analyzed that and keeps it as his little secret in mind. Probably never told anyone besides Toudou.

I'm guessing Lucifer considers Yukio nothing different than another "chosen one" and that he wants to "save him" for that purpose, the same as the chosen ones'. That's why he has no rush over getting Yukio by the Illuminati side and none of his men try to put any pressure on him. After all, Satan's not gonna be revived till around October, and we're in January. Oc, I think this is ONE reason but there may be more.

There's also simply no rush because Yukio is NOT essential to PREPARE Satan's vessel at all. He's not NEEDED at all for THAT purpose. He MAY be needed as a "chosen one" though, so he's gonna be needed later, since the body itself is still not ready (for all we know, they may still be looking for other Immortals type demons behind the scenes, so, if that's the case, then they're still at the "gathering ingredients" stage).
It looks like Yukio is not indispensable in Lucifer's plan. He is good to have, but it's OK without him. So I also don't think he is related to Satan's revival. Although the demon eaters are not really indispensable either, but more like a plan B in case they can't gather enough materials

Now, this is totally crack theory, but I think what Lucifer is offering Yukio, that "potential", could be something related to Yukio's capability to "control" the demon.
That's not crack at all. Lucifer essentially told Yukio he can teach how to control Yukio's mysterious ability. (So Yukio could be saved)

I'm pretty sure "the chosen ones" are just demon eaters. Lucifer explained that they were strengthened by the elixir experiments.
I think the definition of "the chosen ones" are people who survived with Gedoin's medicine. They only become demon eaters after they get demons to eat. For those tourists, they didn't join the experiment by their own will, so Gedoin just forced demons possess on them. In that case they can't control the demon but controlled by demon, so I don't think they are counted as demon eaters.

Lucifer had to be notified that Yukio wasn't 100% human, and only after the blue eye incident did Lucifer say he could explain the story of the hidden birth. Tells me that Lucifer didn't observe the hidden birth but could figure out what happened solely based on the blue eye incident.
In my opinion, Lucifer's  "I see. You(r eyes) are interesting as Toudou said."  and  "Don't you want to know the secret of your birth?"  are two different things. For the eyes, Lucifer only knows after Toudou told him and he directly checked it. For the secret of birth, it sounds like Lucifer was mentioning what Yukio has wondered : "Why did Mephisto and Shiro let Satan's sons alive?"  It's possible that Lucifer knows the reason, although unrelated to Yukio's eyes.

That'd only be the case if Yukio is not unique and that there are other cases of partial incarnations that Lucifer knew about, allowing him to get a pretty good idea of Yukio's origin and abilities without seeing them.
I suspect Lucifer can directly recognize "Satan" when he checks Yukio's eyes. So Yukio can still be unique ...

I assumed "saved" from the Order, because Lucifer believed that the moment Yukio's secret got out, he wasn't protected and would be imprisoned or killed.

If the voice really is Satan's, than I actually believe Lucifer's concern
Part of the reason is to be saved from the Order, and I think another part of the reason is to be saved from the unknown and uncontrollable demon ability.

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #632 on: August 27, 2017, 07:50:08 AM »
Lucifer offered Yukio the truth because he wanted to "save" him. I assumed "saved" from the Order, because Lucifer believed that the moment Yukio's secret got out, he wasn't protected and would be imprisoned or killed.
If Lucifer wants to save him, it's certainly not from dying. We're talking about a guy who thinks bringing everything back to nothing is a good thing because then no one will have to suffer anymore. No matter what he wants to protect him from, I'd bet it's some sort of suffering.

Offline earthforge

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #633 on: August 27, 2017, 04:36:16 PM »
In my opinion, Lucifer's  "I see. You(r eyes) are interesting as Toudou said."  and  "Don't you want to know the secret of your birth?"  are two different things. For the eyes, Lucifer only knows after Toudou told him and he directly checked it. For the secret of birth, it sounds like Lucifer was mentioning what Yukio has wondered : "Why did Mephisto and Shiro let Satan's sons alive?"  It's possible that Lucifer knows the reason, although unrelated to Yukio's eyes.

Don't forget what Lucy said after "don't you want to know the truth behind those eyes and the secret of your birth?" -- "These truths will manifest as your new powers." (Granted, this is the mangapanda translation. The Viz translation is 10x more ambiguous saying "in that truth there is power". I can't find S2's at the moment, but back in the chapter 67 thread chino summarized that part of the convo as " I/These truths can/will grant you 'power'. The truths behind these eyes and the hidden birth.")

So basically Yukio's eyes, the hidden birth, and that dormant potential are all linked.

Lucifer offered Yukio the truth because he wanted to "save" him. I assumed "saved" from the Order, because Lucifer believed that the moment Yukio's secret got out, he wasn't protected and would be imprisoned or killed.
If Lucifer wants to save him, it's certainly not from dying. We're talking about a guy who thinks bringing everything back to nothing is a good thing because then no one will have to suffer anymore. No matter what he wants to protect him from, I'd bet it's some sort of suffering.

D'oh. You're right. Darn Lucy and his incredibly inconsistent value-structure. Murder and mutilation are okay, but if you're too mean you've gone too far. Suffering is the worst crime ever... except for those humans turned into chimera zombies who were crying and suffering a fate worse than death. We'll just use those as cannon-fodder.

I just can't figure out why some things constitute suffering but others don't. Lucy's idea of peace a hundred years ago was basically "everyone else gets to be happy in Assiah while I die every 7-10 years, so I'm gonna wreck it for everyone so nobody gets to be special and have a healthy Assiah meatsuit". I can only assume that Lucy's idea has progressed into wrecking it for all humans and demons by having Satan incarnate so Satan destroys Assiah and Gehenna, essentially returning to nothingness. Such a cosmic temper tantrum. Or maybe he wants Gehenna to eclipse everything in Assiah so he can have a perpetual meatsuit while wiping out humanity and remove the dichotomy of strong/weak by having only his demon eaters exist?

At the same time, why the heck does he spend valuable time propping up those he sees as "weak" against "suffering"? He seems to have a patronizing pity towards humans that follow him, as if they can't help their weakness. Why personally offer the truth to Yukio, when by all appearance it looks like he doesn't even need him? Heck, maybe the "I want to save you" is just referring to the suffering Yukio is putting himself through via desperately trying to understand himself while strongly repressing himself. That basically Yukio will stop suffering when he has the truth because he'll no longer be weak. But that'd be comical because even if Yukio does get the answers he wants, he'll still suffer because he does care for others.
"There are no answers. Only choices."

Offline Madow

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #634 on: August 28, 2017, 03:34:15 PM »

I just can't figure out why some things constitute suffering but others don't. Lucy's idea of peace a hundred years ago was basically "everyone else gets to be happy in Assiah while I die every 7-10 years, so I'm gonna wreck it for everyone so nobody gets to be special and have a healthy Assiah meatsuit". I can only assume that Lucy's idea has progressed into wrecking it for all humans and demons by having Satan incarnate so Satan destroys Assiah and Gehenna, essentially returning to nothingness. Such a cosmic temper tantrum. Or maybe he wants Gehenna to eclipse everything in Assiah so he can have a perpetual meatsuit while wiping out humanity and remove the dichotomy of strong/weak by having only his demon eaters exist?


I always thought of the merging of the two dimmensions would allow the demons naturally incorperal bodies to take form, giving them access to their true power without the risk compromising their hosts. I'd say you're right about Lucifers plan for the Demonic Royal family to take over both dimmensions, Lucy's already practically the leader of Gehenna being the most influential person there. I'd say he'd keep most humans alive out of pity, besides the ones that would try to oppose him E.G The True Cross. If they get them out of the way, he's pretty much unstoppable by that point.

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #635 on: August 30, 2017, 08:36:26 PM »
Just a couple random thoughts (and I'll stop here with the nonsense for today).

This. Considering Rin's expression at the end of chapter 93 and considering that Shiro prolly knows more than we think he does, what if he was talking about Rin seeing his brother, well... in the conditions he's in right now? As we said and know, it'd be one hella shock for Rin, imo even worse than watching Shiro take his own life in front of him. This episode happened in the span of a day. Rin's been holding out his hand to Yukio, worrying about him and try to figure out his problem for months. Then, he learns from Suguro and Shiemi something shocking, runs to look for Yukio and finds him... like that? Add to this if he finds out that Yukio's been struggling with that for all those months. Yeah, a rather devastating sight. I know I'm wrong, I just like to think this, hehe.

Also, this is even more random, and just my opinion again: "To me this guy was like family. If the time comes..." "...when I have to kill him, I'll die too." THAT Rin's eye. It looks like Suguro's words hit him pretty hard before he broke off into laughs and proceeded to cheer Suguro up. I dunno. The first time I read this chapter I had the feeling that those words hit Rin hard cause at some point during his life Rin happened to have that same thought too. I mean, Rin and Yukio are twins. No one ever talks about it in the manga, but these two boys were conceived practically together, they grew into their mom's womb together for months. They were born the same day, prolly just a few minutes or a couple hours apart. They've been together from day 1 onward.

I always found it fascinating and I know some users of this forum have twins too. I don't, so I can only guess. Anyway, if Rin was ever forced to kill Yukio, I think he would feel like Suguro. Even more considering that he and Yukio ARE family. So, I got the feeling that this was the meaning behind the focus on Rin's eye. He recognized himsef in Suguro's words for that one moment. And I don't know if this was meant to be a foreshadow to a possible plot twist later on (prolly, most likely, hopefully NO) but every time I see this scene I can't help but thinking this.

Offline Ren6

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #636 on: September 30, 2017, 12:16:48 PM »

I also think Shima is going to die.

He's a spy, he's playing a dangerous game, it's true. But his death could become an act of heroism, a gesture of repentance after his past deeds. He made many bad decisions, betrayed his friends and lying to them, and he would decide to sacrifice himself by saving one of them (I'm thinking of Bon, Koneko, or even Izumo, because he real bonds with them), hoping to accomplish something good in his life - seeing himself as a bad person and acting on that.
Moreover, it would be an ironic and tragic end. Remember his elder brother Takezou who saved him and Bon during the Blue Night. He was constantly reminded of this sacrifice, he lived in the shadow of Takezou all his life, and must have resentment towards him. Knowing his way of thinking, he must say that his brother was stupid to die for them, but he will do the same for his friends by repeating the choices of his brother whom he never knew and of which he has more of similarities that he does not want to admit.
And Takezou would be there to welcome him to the gates of Paradise ...

My god I can't believe I think so strongly about Renzou's death when he's my favorite character. Forgive me Renzou

Offline layla.A

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #637 on: October 01, 2017, 04:32:57 PM »

I agree with rin 6, renzou will surely die (yamantaka will go even to the juzo child I'm on !!) but it is possible that is a false track because I find its too obvious even.

I also bet that lightning is going to pass!

Offline facets-and-rainbows

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #638 on: October 03, 2017, 07:04:12 AM »
Guys it's 2 am here and I thought of something weird and dark.

So you know how when Toudou was fighting Juuzou they said that when two demons of the same type (fire in this case) fight, the stronger one absorbs the weaker one's attacks?

What if it works that way with Rin and Satan?

What if part of Mephisto's plan is to take this little chunk of Satan's fire that's stuck in a human body, raise it to like Assiah, and then send it back to fight Satan and either 1) win or 2) be absorbed and influence Satan to at least tolerate Assiah? He'd get something he wants (ability to hang out in a non-destroyed Assiah) no matter how the final battle went.

...yeah I should probably go to sleep.

Offline Cherub

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #639 on: October 03, 2017, 08:03:35 AM »
Guys it's 2 am here and I thought of something weird and dark.

So you know how when Toudou was fighting Juuzou they said that when two demons of the same type (fire in this case) fight, the stronger one absorbs the weaker one's attacks?

What if it works that way with Rin and Satan?

What if part of Mephisto's plan is to take this little chunk of Satan's fire that's stuck in a human body, raise it to like Assiah, and then send it back to fight Satan and either 1) win or 2) be absorbed and influence Satan to at least tolerate Assiah? He'd get something he wants (ability to hang out in a non-destroyed Assiah) no matter how the final battle went.

...yeah I should probably go to sleep.

Oh boy... that would be... so dark! I haven't thought about that before :<
In retrospect that would mean Rin is a weapon that was designed to cancel out another weapon.. waahh!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 08:05:26 AM by Cherub »

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #640 on: October 03, 2017, 08:22:59 AM »
Guys it's 2 am here and I thought of something weird and dark.

So you know how when Toudou was fighting Juuzou they said that when two demons of the same type (fire in this case) fight, the stronger one absorbs the weaker one's attacks?

What if it works that way with Rin and Satan?

What if part of Mephisto's plan is to take this little chunk of Satan's fire that's stuck in a human body, raise it to like Assiah, and then send it back to fight Satan and either 1) win or 2) be absorbed and influence Satan to at least tolerate Assiah? He'd get something he wants (ability to hang out in a non-destroyed Assiah) no matter how the final battle went.

...yeah I should probably go to sleep.

Hey, being deprived of some sleep often brought me to realize things I couldn't even notice while fully awake. I think it's something like being able to give your best shot when you're the most tired. Anyway, you had me think about something else.

Yukio was weak in the womb so the "power of the blue flame" rejected him (more or less it's how Shiro explained it). Now that you said that, I thought: what if Yukio was conceived -with- the power but since HE was weak and Rin was strong, Rin ended up absorbing his flame too? (well, after all, inside the womb they were practically one next to the other. Skin-to-skin contact) That's why they could establish a connection and Rin was able to hear Yukio calling him back at the BEI and/or this could explain that weird sentence of Yukio (which to me it's still one big mystery) "Give me your flame". Like, if Yukio had the power in him too when he was in the womb but then "lost" it, he was prolly left with this "unconscious" instinct to "call" the flame back at him.

Don't mind me, I lost 4 hours of sleep waiting for chapter 94 and now I'm worn out and talking nonesense. Gee, the wait...

Edit: to further add, I thought this theory (Yukio/Rin who were conceived with the same amount of flame power but Rin absorbed Yukio's cause he was too weak in the womb) could explain a couple things. What if Yukio's constant desiring to be "stronger" (than Rin) it's nothing else but another unconscious instinct he got from having being "stolen" of his share of power? Like, he feels something's missing inside of him and can't define it other than willing to be stronger than Rin but, in reality, he's craving his missing flame?

Also, I think this could help explain Lucifer's words too. The "secret" behind Yukio's birth could be: Yukio HAD the power too but Rin absorbed it. So, "learning the truth" could help Yukio as in: if Yukio knows that Rin's in possess of his flame, he will know what he'll have to do: get the flame back from Rin. And the "potential" could be the ability to "regain" back his flame. Potential which could be unlocked ONLY by knowing the truth. It makes sence imo.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 09:44:55 AM by Cloelia »

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #641 on: October 04, 2017, 06:55:32 PM »
(sorry for double posting)

At this point, do you think Shura will remember about Yukio saving her life a couple months earlier and will feel like putting her own role at risk by helping him bail? Right now, she's the only one who cares for Yukio (even tough he doesn't consider her a friend, apparently) close enough, who saw what happened better than anyone and with the chance to do anything. So, I got this feel...

Offline earthforge

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #642 on: October 04, 2017, 07:30:10 PM »
At this point, do you think Shura will remember about Yukio saving her life a couple months earlier and will feel like putting her own role at risk by helping him bail? Right now, she's the only one who cares for Yukio (even tough he doesn't consider her a friend, apparently) close enough, who saw what happened better than anyone and with the chance to do anything. So, I got this feel...

Shura was already trying to protect Yukio by shouting "don't hurt him" to the incensed exorcists arresting him. But I don't think she's gonna bail him out. This isn't like with Rin. Yukio is getting arrested for a damn good reason. She saw him holding the gun. She's more likely to demand an explanation. Almost certainly he won't tell the truth. She'll get frustrated because he won't let her help.

(Yukio/Rin who were conceived with the same amount of flame power but Rin absorbed Yukio's cause he was too weak in the womb)

I think this is a good theory. The idea that Yukio had flames "stolen" at birth, whether by natural coincidence (Rin absorbing because he's stronger) or intentionally (stuffed into Kurikara to bolster Rin's power), would also be a reason for him to fight against everything he previously stood for.

There's also the added information of Mephisto refusing to confirm or deny if Yukio inherited like Rin. I mean, if Yukio hadn't, why would Mephisto do this whole song and dance? The story sounds complicated, like the answer is yes and no.
"There are no answers. Only choices."

Offline Taytronics7

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #643 on: October 05, 2017, 02:50:22 PM »
Theory time!

Alright, so I've been thinking about how the disappearing key would play into the story based on the cover page, and I think I have a possible scenario.

With the Gehenna Gate opening, the Order's only realistic option is to have Rin destroy it, since he could destroy a Gehenna Gate in chapter one. Since the anime had an entire plot point of Rin's sword breaking, and there have been references to the Koumaken breaking in the manga, I think it's safe to say that the Koumaken will break during Rin destroying the Gehenna Gate.

How the key fits into this is the fact that the key is described to be able to hide anything anywhere. I think that when Koumaken breaks, Rin's demon heart will be exposed, and he will use the key to hide his heart somewhere where it can't be found since if his heart is destroyed, Rin will die. Then after the sword breaks and Rin hides his heart, he will take his sword to Tatsuma to repair it and his heart will eventually be put back into Koumaken.

I find this to be an interesting possibility, mostly because it might mean that Rin would have to fight without his powers. If he can't use Koumaken, he would be forced to find another method of fighting. I remember a line Shura said in chapter 12, "What can you do without your flame?" Maybe that was foreshadowing the sword breaking. It would definitely make for some great development on Rin's part.

Offline SimpleBliss

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #644 on: October 05, 2017, 03:36:45 PM »
Theory time!

Alright, so I've been thinking about how the disappearing key would play into the story based on the cover page, and I think I have a possible scenario.

With the Gehenna Gate opening, the Order's only realistic option is to have Rin destroy it, since he could destroy a Gehenna Gate in chapter one. Since the anime had an entire plot point of Rin's sword breaking, and there have been references to the Koumaken breaking in the manga, I think it's safe to say that the Koumaken will break during Rin destroying the Gehenna Gate.

How the key fits into this is the fact that the key is described to be able to hide anything anywhere. I think that when Koumaken breaks, Rin's demon heart will be exposed, and he will use the key to hide his heart somewhere where it can't be found since if his heart is destroyed, Rin will die. Then after the sword breaks and Rin hides his heart, he will take his sword to Tatsuma to repair it and his heart will eventually be put back into Koumaken.

I find this to be an interesting possibility, mostly because it might mean that Rin would have to fight without his powers. If he can't use Koumaken, he would be forced to find another method of fighting. I remember a line Shura said in chapter 12, "What can you do without your flame?" Maybe that was foreshadowing the sword breaking. It would definitely make for some great development on Rin's part.

I AM 100% ON BOARD WITH THIS