Author Topic: Crack theories  (Read 142249 times)

Offline Cherub

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #585 on: May 17, 2017, 08:22:35 AM »
As a huge Yukio fan, I've always wondered about his fascination with Yukio in crack ways and canon wise. Like I get that they have similar life narratives, but sometimes I wonder exactly how Toudou came to be who he is, so it makes me wonder if Yukio will end up being the same. Regardless I do find their interaction in the manga to be really good because of the whole enemy tension thing, so I've got to give this crack theory kudos because I'm sure fans of this rare ship (ahshsjsjekthatmightbeme) have a lot of imagination to how this would play out, lmao.

I think that Toudou's manipulation of Yukio will end up diverting Yukio from Toudou's path. Toudou fell into darkness over the course of forty years. He can't change. He's been messed up for too long. Contrast Yukio's descent into darkness, which has been rapid and accelerated by outside forces. Ironically, forcing Yukio to face his personal demons early in life has increased the likelihood that Yukio can overcome them. Even if Yukio does join the dark side, Yukio isn't committed in the same way Toudou is. Yukio can accept himself and change for the better. Plus, Yukio won't truly defeat Toudou by power or strength, but by proving Toudou wrong -- that Yukio can accept his nature *and* care for the world. That your choices, not your personality, make you good or evil.
I think Toudou's fascination with Yukio was due to the apparent similar situation they were in. However, it turns out they are actually not similar at all. Although he didn't say it very clearly, it looks like one of Toudou's motive was that he realizes he will never surpass his father and brother(s) no matter how hard he works as an exorcist. And he did achieve higher accomplishment when he became a demon, so his choice is actually kind of reasonable. Yukio is different. Although he is also following Shiro's career path, as a 15 years old boy he just started the career and doesn't have any reason to believe his accomplishment is limited. Then Toudou tried several ways to attack Yukio's mind and finally one of them seemed has effect : Yukio does envy Rin. However, Yukio does not envy Rin's power or strength (at least at IK arc). It was Rin's personality and the possibility that Shiro loved Rin more. Clearly Yukio can't gain anything if he joins Toudou so he won't. At the end Toudou realized that their problems are different. Then he laughed at Yukio's "both love and hate my brother" and commented it as childish. Toudou even tried to kill Yukio until the blue eye incident happened.

Therefore, in my opinion their interaction is already over at IK arc and Toudou doesn't have any more things to say. Toudou was correct that there is a dark/demon side inside Yukio's mind, but I think it is quite common among human and is not enough for a person to actually go evil. Then Toudou reported Yukio's case to Lucifer, and we have seen Lucifer did find the right way to approach Yukio

Mm. But idk, I still think Toudou is incredibly useful to the plot for comparisons and other stuff. I'm still more or less interested in any future flippant conversation they might have though. I don't think she's done with them yet. I'm especially keen to see how an interaction with Bon might go too.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 07:53:04 AM by Cherub »

Offline earthforge

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #586 on: May 19, 2017, 02:04:24 AM »
Many apologies for the massive tl;dr ahead. I've been working on this post intermittently for a few days between a conference and rereading Facets' hilarious AoEx translation blog for the five-billionth time.

I think Toudou's fascination with Yukio was due to the apparent similar situation they were in. However, it turns out they are actually not similar at all. Although he didn't say it very clearly, it looks like one of Toudou's motive was that he realizes he will never surpass his father and brother(s) no matter how hard he works as an exorcist. And he did achieve higher accomplishment when he became a demon, so his choice is actually kind of reasonable. Yukio is different. Although he is also following Shiro's career path, as a 15 years old boy he just started the career and doesn't have any reason to believe his accomplishment is limited. Then Toudou tried several ways to attack Yukio's mind and finally one of them seemed has effect : Yukio does envy Rin. However, Yukio does not envy Rin's power or strength (at least at IK arc). It was Rin's personality and the possibility that Shiro loved Rin more. Clearly Yukio can't gain anything if he joins Toudou so he won't. At the end Toudou realized that their problems are different. Then he laughed at Yukio's "both love and hate my brother" and commented it as childish. Toudou even tried to kill Yukio until the blue eye incident happened.

Therefore, in my opinion their interaction is already over at IK arc and Toudou doesn't have any more things to say. Toudou was correct that there is a dark/demon side inside Yukio's mind, but I think it is quite common among human and is not enough for a person to actually go evil. Then Toudou reported Yukio's case to Lucifer, and we have seen Lucifer did find the right way to approach Yukio

Gonna disagree. Toudou started the fight in Kyoto with Yukio simply to understand Karura's limits. He was playing around and not fighting seriously. That allowed Yukio to get the drop on Toudou with the naiad trap. Toudou was impressed by that but figured Yukio was just a boring ol' human and not worth the effort to manipulate, so he attempted to kill him. Thus when Yukio manifested a demonic ability, Toudou was pleasantly surprised and said he underestimated Yukio -- AKA Yukio was now worth the effort to turn.

After he felt he had a grasp on Karura's abilities after fighting Juuzou et al., Toudou got serious. After restraining the others, he proceeded to tear apart Yukio's self-loathing complex. He pointed out that way of thinking was self-denial and had limits. He was right. Yukio uses self-loathing as a coping strategy to keep himself centered, a daily reminder that his envy and resentment were bad especially in relation to Rin and he shouldn't indulge it. That meant he never learned to deal with the root of his resentment. Toudou then pushed on how Yukio was already well on his way to becoming a demon, linking in his envy of Rin who's also a demon (later was paraphrased by the portrait demon) and emphasizing how being a demon is totes awesome. Note that in all the time they were fighting, this is when when Yukio started to lose his temper. Facets did a really great analysis of what Yukio says here. Toudou's parting words that Yukio has a "nice look, the face of a demon, that's your true nature" hit Yukio hard because Toudou wasn't only saying that Yukio has a dark side, but implying that Yukio will inevitably become a demon because that's what Yukio is.

Fast-forward to now. Yukio's inability to confide in anyone has led to the suicide training, the failed attempt to get access to Hachiro's powers, and generally poor mental health. He's been acting progressively more demonic and hasn't been catching himself. He's gone from "if I were in your shoes, I would've gone crazy" to "just give me your flames" to quoting what Rin said in the Whale arc about them really being siblings who will never get along. Yukio's given up on his self-loathing and has accepted that he and Rin aren't alike. That's two coping strategies gone. He still is on the TC Order side out of sheer stubbornness (ah, Mr. I-Don't-Need-It), but he's slipping. His laughing in Rin's face feels like a portent of what he will act like as an honest-to-god villain. It makes me worry that Yukio could actually fall into exactly what Toudou said in their first meeting, that accepting his weakness and hatred would feel wonderful. So far the rest of Toudou's prediction has been right.

Toudou kicked the case upstairs to Lucy not because he realized they were different, but because he badly wants Yukio on their side and Yukio is too stubborn to listen to Toudou. Plus, Toudou got the information and did the groundwork that allowed Lucy to tempt Yukio in the way he did. If Toudou did realize they were different, I think his interest in Yukio would be long gone. But instead in his most recent appearance, he said "I like that kid", which was a biiiit more suggestive in the original Japanese. I believe Toudou's interest in Yukio is borne out of his own self-absorption, and that by pushing Yukio to the Illuminati, he is "helping" himself. Toudou doesn't really see Yukio Okumura, but a version of himself. That's Toudou's biggest weakness -- his arrogance.

Yukio has tried to refute Toudou before by insisting he's different. It doesn't work because, well, they are similar. They are both strategic, manipulative, and resentful. They do have critical differences. In particular, Toudou's given up and can't change. Yukio never gives up. His stubbornness is his greatest strength and weakness.

The story between those two isn't finished. Toudou is Yukio's nemesis, just as Lucifer is Mephisto's enemy and Satan is Rin's enemy. Rin intends to physically defeat Satan. Lucifer and Mephisto are waging war on each other through their pawns. Toudou and Yukio's conflict is about "making your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place". Yukio will win eventually, not by physical strength but by proving he is right.
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Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #587 on: May 22, 2017, 02:14:11 PM »
What if Yuri Egin was actually a clone of Egyn (King of Water)?


I gathered a couple thoughts starting from this:



I don't know much about japanese language, but I combined my little knowledge I have of it with some net research and came up with this:

the name "Rin" can be written in different kanji (pardon my ignorance, but this is what I read on Wikipedia): such as 倫, 凛, 臨, 琳, 燐, りん in hiragana or リン in katakana. Probably Kato's choice for our Rin's is just random, but the one she used is this: 燐. Which it should mean: phosphorus. Now, phosphorus is a chemical element. Some of its main applications are related to fire-stuff (fireworks, matches...).

On the other hand, "Yukio" (random note, take a look at this page, I found it quite interesting :) The Meaning of the name Yukio) is written with this kanji: 雪男. And it essentially means: man of the snow. Something snow related... water related.

Ok, Rin and Yukio are two very different brothers. Can we consider "opposite" an even more suitable definition? If that's the case, aren't fire and water two opposite elements for definition as well?

Now, name aspect aside. There's this one thing that suddenly crossed my mind: what if Yuri Egin is actually a clone of the King of Water? For all we know, prolly both Rin and Yukio actually inherited the Satan's blue flames power gene but Rin got it as his dominant one and Yukio as his recessive one. But what if Yukio's dominant gene is related to the possible water element of his mother? I thought of something stupid, such as the water element suppressing the "fire" element of the flames. And this as a possible explanation for why Yukio can't access his Satan's blue flames power gene.

I have a couple considerations about Yukio having some "water related potential" in him. Such as the fact he can summon Naiads (kin of the King of Water) even w/out possessing a Tamer Meister. Also, maybe it got nothing to do with this matter, but if you consider the fact that the Kraken is also kin of the King of Water, I have this lil theory in my mind that the reason it suddenly made his appearance right after the Kyoto adventure may have an explanation. Yukio had just awoke the power in his eyes (or whatever), so he had kinda just awaken his demonic side as well. What if the Kraken "sensed" it (the awakening of the "aura" of the King of Water within Yukio's genes) and reacted to this event?

Also, Lucifer stated that HE has the power to unlock Yukio's real potential. Well, Egyn is part of the anti-human faction just as Lucifer. So he's essentially Lucifer's ally.

What do you think about this?


Offline NeeNee

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #588 on: May 22, 2017, 03:17:53 PM »
^ The biggest problem with this, is that Rin and Yukio's names were originally reversed, for.. whatever reason.

http://www.theblueknight.host-ed.me/forum/index.php/topic,117.msg3807.html#msg3807

So she originally named the guy with the fire powers Yukio, then realised it made no sense and changed it... I don't believe she thought all that hard about it, is what I'm saying. :P
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 03:19:40 PM by NeeNee »

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #589 on: June 02, 2017, 08:32:05 PM »
I'm one of those people who somehow (deep, very deep inside) believes that Lightning could potentially be the actual -biological- twins' father. Up till recentely, I could see all sorts of -resemblances- to only Rin (from him been considered a "demon child", to his admission at having poor memorizing skills, to his sleeping pattern, etc. (not to mention the general physical resemblance)) but I always failed to find some real Yukio's ones. This last chapter tough... Well, I was finally able to find at least 3 of them:

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 02:05:05 PM by Cloelia »

Offline Wikkelsoee

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #590 on: June 02, 2017, 09:26:46 PM »
^ If that was the case wouldn't Lightning know about Section 13? It seems like Yuri did. He wouldn't have any reason to do as much research as he's doing now.
It would also mean Satan possessed him, something he hasn't mention, like, at all.

Also, his blood type is AB. It's genetically impossible for him to be the father of Yukio (who has O).
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 09:29:47 PM by Wikkelsoee »

Offline Madow

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #591 on: June 02, 2017, 11:59:11 PM »
I never would've thought of him as their father, I believed he could've been their uncle with us not knowing who the twin's father was until a few chapters ago. With Lewin being raised in the US and the elixer taking place in Japan makes it impossible. To me, he'll still be the foster uncle

Offline SimpleBliss

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #592 on: June 03, 2017, 03:34:52 AM »
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but do you think one reason for Lightning's obsessive and almost crazy need to research the Blue Night is because he was a clone, or affected by it somehow? He mentions here that he's lacked emotions since birth:

(click to show/hide)

That might be a result of some experimentation. He always danced around the topic on who he is and how he grew up, right?
Here he says he was "nasty enough to be feared as a demon himself":

(click to show/hide)

This all has to imply something, right?

And here!!!

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Why did he panic? That's not like him at all. It must be because this information directly concerns him or his family. Most importantly, the file name was for clones of Azazel. We already know Lightning has connections to Azazel, or at least its been hinted at when he actually visited that tornado wind thing. There's definitely a lot going on with Lightning. What do you guys think?

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #593 on: June 03, 2017, 04:42:01 AM »
In the context of some of the Demon Kings + Emperors vowing to protect humanity, Lightnings statement that he "loves humans even more than demons" and "will do everything to protect them".... yeah, I do suspect he has some connection the pro-human demon kings.

Maybe he was created as part of some form of experiment to resurrect Azazel's nephilim line within Sec. 13?

It would explain his strong affinity to air demons. And it would make Azazel a sort of ancestor to him giving another meaning to him calling him "gramps".

Offline SimpleBliss

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #594 on: June 05, 2017, 04:33:01 AM »
Maybe he was created as part of some form of experiment to resurrect Azazel's nephilim line within Sec. 13?

It would explain his strong affinity to air demons. And it would make Azazel a sort of ancestor to him giving another meaning to him calling him "gramps".

Interesting point. I do think him calling Azazel "gramps" was significant, so this makes sense.

On another note, imagine if instead of possession, Yukio becomes a demon eater? Got the idea after seeing artwork of him with the peacock wings on his back, and it reminded me of Karura and Toudou...

Offline earthforge

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #595 on: June 05, 2017, 02:57:50 PM »
On another note, imagine if instead of possession, Yukio becomes a demon eater? Got the idea after seeing artwork of him with the peacock wings on his back, and it reminded me of Karura and Toudou...

(I have a pet theory that Yukio can't be possessed, but it's only based on circumstantial evidence that we haven't seen him possessed in the main storyline or flashbacks despite his constant emotional instability.)

Betting he'll be either a demon eater or another kind of demon-human hybrid.

There's one reason why I really don't want the former -- demon-eaters consume a demon to gain power. Take a wild guess what Yukio would consume if the plotline trends along his fixation with the blue flames. If Koumaken is broken to expose Rin's demon heart, then... this would make Yukio irredeemably evil IMO. It would be conscious decision to throw away Rin's life.

If he's already a demon-human hybrid, similar but different from Rin, that skips the whole matter.
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Offline Kittykat

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #596 on: June 05, 2017, 04:56:53 PM »
On another note, imagine if instead of possession, Yukio becomes a demon eater? Got the idea after seeing artwork of him with the peacock wings on his back, and it reminded me of Karura and Toudou...

(I have a pet theory that Yukio can't be possessed, but it's only based on circumstantial evidence that we haven't seen him possessed in the main storyline or flashbacks despite his constant emotional instability.)

Betting he'll be either a demon eater or another kind of demon-human hybrid.

There's one reason why I really don't want the former -- demon-eaters consume a demon to gain power. Take a wild guess what Yukio would consume if the plotline trends along his fixation with the blue flames. If Koumaken is broken to expose Rin's demon heart, then... this would make Yukio irredeemably evil IMO. It would be conscious decision to throw away Rin's life.

If he's already a demon-human hybrid, similar but different from Rin, that skips the whole matter.

I feel that Yukio is not going to realize how far he's fallen until Rin is sacrificed. Meh. This build up is taking too long...

Offline earthforge

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #597 on: June 05, 2017, 08:44:30 PM »
Crack theory! Lightning was born in Texas but moved to California when he was really young. This explains why he acts more like a stereotypical Californian bum than a Texan bum. I mean, look at those shorts and socks and wacky fashion sense! He'd fit right in Santa Cruz or Los Angeles!  :D
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Offline Kittykat

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #598 on: June 05, 2017, 11:11:01 PM »
Crack theory! Lightning was born in Texas but moved to California when he was really young. This explains why he acts more like a stereotypical Californian bum than a Texan bum. I mean, look at those shorts and socks and wacky fashion sense! He'd fit right in Santa Cruz or Los Angeles!  :D

He consumes too many hamburgers to be from Cali. Too fattening. It would have to be like Kale salad or fish tacos. ;p

Offline earthforge

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #599 on: June 05, 2017, 11:40:09 PM »
Crack theory! Lightning was born in Texas but moved to California when he was really young. This explains why he acts more like a stereotypical Californian bum than a Texan bum. I mean, look at those shorts and socks and wacky fashion sense! He'd fit right in Santa Cruz or Los Angeles!  :D

He consumes too many hamburgers to be from Cali. Too fattening. It would have to be like Kale salad or fish tacos. ;p

"Too fattening"?

Allow me to introduce you to the true food of my people :D



« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 11:52:51 PM by earthforge »
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