Author Topic: Crack theories  (Read 145163 times)

Offline earthforge

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #570 on: April 20, 2017, 05:01:15 AM »
1) Satan's real eyes are yellow -> Yukio's current eyes are teal -> (Blue+Yellow=Green (teal is a shade of green)) ->

Erp. Not really. This is a case of the anime taking creative liberties (which they often do with coloring). Satan's eyes are shown in the color page for chapter 24. They are white-blue and have that funky pinwheel shape, the same pinwheel shape that Rin gets whenever Rin begins to lose (or is on the verge of losing) his marbles.

So... yeah. Satan's eyes are light blue. Crazy Rin (Koumaken drawn) and Satan's eyes are identical. Sane Rin (Koumaken drawn) and Blue-eye incident Yukio's eyes are identical. Everything else differs.
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Offline chinonamida

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #571 on: April 23, 2017, 10:52:01 PM »
I was wondering about the Gregory. We know the one in the center represents Shemihaza and the one on the right represents Azazel, then by elimination the one on the left represents Armumahel.

Now, I know the anime gave a male voice to the one in the center, but I was thinking about the people who said Shiemi could be a descendant of Shemihaza and I also remembered that that Gregory is kind of chubby... so maybe the anime is misleading and the Gregory in the center is Shiemi's mother.

Not actually believing it though. XD

Offline Wikkelsoee

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #572 on: April 24, 2017, 07:03:13 AM »
^ I think someone actually mentioned that as a real theory in some other thread. I don't know how I feel about it, it seems a bit crack but you never know with manga...

Offline earthforge

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #573 on: April 28, 2017, 03:22:51 PM »
Amaimon's cousin who likes collecting eyes is actually Samyaza or Armumahel.

(It seemed weird that Amaimon referred to have a cousin when he referred to all the other kings as siblings. But maybe he considers the Sol like cousins? Or maybe Kato didn't intend that line to go anywhere. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
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Offline xyzt

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #574 on: April 28, 2017, 04:45:53 PM »
Amaimon's cousin who likes collecting eyes is actually Samyaza or Armumahel.

(It seemed weird that Amaimon referred to have a cousin when he referred to all the other kings as siblings. But maybe he considers the Sol like cousins? Or maybe Kato didn't intend that line to go anywhere. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

But Samyaza and Armumahel are on the pro-human side and both are even confirmed to prefer letting themselves be crystallized than possess another human body. I dont feel they would be the kind of demons who would enjoy collecting human eyes given that they are refusing to even possess humans.

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #575 on: May 01, 2017, 06:49:41 AM »
Here's a messed up crack theory. The spy (or a future enemy) is an Azazel clone that looks almost exactly like Fujimoto and will throw a super psychological wrench, affecting Rin, Shura, and Yukio.

And hey, has anyone thought of a theory that twin demons' (if there are any) have one single demon heart shared between the two?

Offline NoireShot

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #576 on: May 02, 2017, 07:32:38 PM »
I don't know if this really belongs here or sth
But something that bugged my mind since the start of the recent arc is the topic of the garden amahara. In the anime it came back up along with the conclusion of Neuhaus' storyline as he and his resurrected wife marched of into ...the void or sth
So with Neuhaus coming back to the plot (and being in a weird lab of all things) and Shiemi hopefully soon getting her arc I hope for that topic to come back from the dead as well (...haha)

(It just rlly bugged me that we got to see Neuhaus again shortly as we approach Shiemis soon-to-happen-I-hope-arc. Because Shiemi came in contact with the spiderwife in the anime I speculate these storylines may happen at the same time or will have correlations or whatever bc the anime is loosely based on future events that Kato told the writers about)

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #577 on: May 03, 2017, 01:31:32 AM »
Maybe the Garden of Amahara will be the Emperor of Creation's shrine?

Offline NoireShot

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #578 on: May 11, 2017, 08:29:29 PM »
Things that I constantly think about : the fact that the section13-investigation-chapters (85/86) are named after plant-stuff (Heterophylly & Spur shoot). And the fact that some other chapters are named with suspicious names too. Like 87 where Shiemi says she quits her exorcist training is named "Embryo"
Do these titles have significance? And which? What do they mean?

Not really a cracktheory but it sorta points to my garden-amahara-speculation ...maybe ...

Offline Cherub

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #579 on: May 13, 2017, 06:09:49 AM »
[I hate posting in old threads. Do you mind me doing that?]

I once posted this somewhere already, but at one point I made up the theory that Toudou is only eating the demons so he will get (physically) younger in order to look fifteen. Because we wants to be with Yukio forever and totally is no pedo. Because he LURRRRVS him. And one day he'll just confess his love, Yukio will reject him and he'll go batshit and destroy the world.

Mind you, I was half asleep and somewhat drunk when I came up with that.

OML!! I'm dying! That would be hallarious. I won't lie, every time Toudou gets younger I think he gets cuter xD And then I remember how old he is when Renzo was all: "Ah, please don't do that Mr Toudou." (But then again aren't most demons old anways?)

As a huge Yukio fan, I've always wondered about his fascination with Yukio in crack ways and canon wise. Like I get that they have similar life narratives, but sometimes I wonder exactly how Toudou came to be who he is, so it makes me wonder if Yukio will end up being the same. Regardless I do find their interaction in the manga to be really good because of the whole enemy tension thing, so I've got to give this crack theory kudos because I'm sure fans of this rare ship (ahshsjsjekthatmightbeme) have a lot of imagination to how this would play out, lmao.

(I'm currently at a restaurant with the fam for my mums Mother's Day dinner, so excuse any weird grammar of mine).

Offline Cherub

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #580 on: May 13, 2017, 06:16:05 AM »
I honestly just want some crack ideas people might have about a drunk Rin or Yukio. Cause weren't there some posters of them having sake with Mephisto or something??

Offline earthforge

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #581 on: May 13, 2017, 03:55:41 PM »
^ Yup, there is merch of it, but still no story scenario. NeeNee mentioned wanting Yukio to get drunk so he'd spill the beans about what's happening to him, but that was ages ago and is pretty unlikely now that Yukio is possibly moving to Affably Evil.

As a huge Yukio fan, I've always wondered about his fascination with Yukio in crack ways and canon wise. Like I get that they have similar life narratives, but sometimes I wonder exactly how Toudou came to be who he is, so it makes me wonder if Yukio will end up being the same. Regardless I do find their interaction in the manga to be really good because of the whole enemy tension thing, so I've got to give this crack theory kudos because I'm sure fans of this rare ship (ahshsjsjekthatmightbeme) have a lot of imagination to how this would play out, lmao.

I think that Toudou's manipulation of Yukio will end up diverting Yukio from Toudou's path. Toudou fell into darkness over the course of forty years. He can't change. He's been messed up for too long. Contrast Yukio's descent into darkness, which has been rapid and accelerated by outside forces. Ironically, forcing Yukio to face his personal demons early in life has increased the likelihood that Yukio can overcome them. Even if Yukio does join the dark side, Yukio isn't committed in the same way Toudou is. Yukio can accept himself and change for the better. Plus, Yukio won't truly defeat Toudou by power or strength, but by proving Toudou wrong -- that Yukio can accept his nature *and* care for the world. That your choices, not your personality, make you good or evil.

(Toukio isn't as rare a ship as you might think. There's at least four members on this forum who ship it. :D )
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Offline tandem

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #582 on: May 17, 2017, 06:20:08 AM »
As a huge Yukio fan, I've always wondered about his fascination with Yukio in crack ways and canon wise. Like I get that they have similar life narratives, but sometimes I wonder exactly how Toudou came to be who he is, so it makes me wonder if Yukio will end up being the same. Regardless I do find their interaction in the manga to be really good because of the whole enemy tension thing, so I've got to give this crack theory kudos because I'm sure fans of this rare ship (ahshsjsjekthatmightbeme) have a lot of imagination to how this would play out, lmao.

I think that Toudou's manipulation of Yukio will end up diverting Yukio from Toudou's path. Toudou fell into darkness over the course of forty years. He can't change. He's been messed up for too long. Contrast Yukio's descent into darkness, which has been rapid and accelerated by outside forces. Ironically, forcing Yukio to face his personal demons early in life has increased the likelihood that Yukio can overcome them. Even if Yukio does join the dark side, Yukio isn't committed in the same way Toudou is. Yukio can accept himself and change for the better. Plus, Yukio won't truly defeat Toudou by power or strength, but by proving Toudou wrong -- that Yukio can accept his nature *and* care for the world. That your choices, not your personality, make you good or evil.
I think Toudou's fascination with Yukio was due to the apparent similar situation they were in. However, it turns out they are actually not similar at all. Although he didn't say it very clearly, it looks like one of Toudou's motive was that he realizes he will never surpass his father and brother(s) no matter how hard he works as an exorcist. And he did achieve higher accomplishment when he became a demon, so his choice is actually kind of reasonable. Yukio is different. Although he is also following Shiro's career path, as a 15 years old boy he just started the career and doesn't have any reason to believe his accomplishment is limited. Then Toudou tried several ways to attack Yukio's mind and finally one of them seemed has effect : Yukio does envy Rin. However, Yukio does not envy Rin's power or strength (at least at IK arc). It was Rin's personality and the possibility that Shiro loved Rin more. Clearly Yukio can't gain anything if he joins Toudou so he won't. At the end Toudou realized that their problems are different. Then he laughed at Yukio's "both love and hate my brother" and commented it as childish. Toudou even tried to kill Yukio until the blue eye incident happened.

Therefore, in my opinion their interaction is already over at IK arc and Toudou doesn't have any more things to say. Toudou was correct that there is a dark/demon side inside Yukio's mind, but I think it is quite common among human and is not enough for a person to actually go evil. Then Toudou reported Yukio's case to Lucifer, and we have seen Lucifer did find the right way to approach Yukio

Offline Cherub

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #583 on: May 17, 2017, 08:22:35 AM »
As a huge Yukio fan, I've always wondered about his fascination with Yukio in crack ways and canon wise. Like I get that they have similar life narratives, but sometimes I wonder exactly how Toudou came to be who he is, so it makes me wonder if Yukio will end up being the same. Regardless I do find their interaction in the manga to be really good because of the whole enemy tension thing, so I've got to give this crack theory kudos because I'm sure fans of this rare ship (ahshsjsjekthatmightbeme) have a lot of imagination to how this would play out, lmao.

I think that Toudou's manipulation of Yukio will end up diverting Yukio from Toudou's path. Toudou fell into darkness over the course of forty years. He can't change. He's been messed up for too long. Contrast Yukio's descent into darkness, which has been rapid and accelerated by outside forces. Ironically, forcing Yukio to face his personal demons early in life has increased the likelihood that Yukio can overcome them. Even if Yukio does join the dark side, Yukio isn't committed in the same way Toudou is. Yukio can accept himself and change for the better. Plus, Yukio won't truly defeat Toudou by power or strength, but by proving Toudou wrong -- that Yukio can accept his nature *and* care for the world. That your choices, not your personality, make you good or evil.
I think Toudou's fascination with Yukio was due to the apparent similar situation they were in. However, it turns out they are actually not similar at all. Although he didn't say it very clearly, it looks like one of Toudou's motive was that he realizes he will never surpass his father and brother(s) no matter how hard he works as an exorcist. And he did achieve higher accomplishment when he became a demon, so his choice is actually kind of reasonable. Yukio is different. Although he is also following Shiro's career path, as a 15 years old boy he just started the career and doesn't have any reason to believe his accomplishment is limited. Then Toudou tried several ways to attack Yukio's mind and finally one of them seemed has effect : Yukio does envy Rin. However, Yukio does not envy Rin's power or strength (at least at IK arc). It was Rin's personality and the possibility that Shiro loved Rin more. Clearly Yukio can't gain anything if he joins Toudou so he won't. At the end Toudou realized that their problems are different. Then he laughed at Yukio's "both love and hate my brother" and commented it as childish. Toudou even tried to kill Yukio until the blue eye incident happened.

Therefore, in my opinion their interaction is already over at IK arc and Toudou doesn't have any more things to say. Toudou was correct that there is a dark/demon side inside Yukio's mind, but I think it is quite common among human and is not enough for a person to actually go evil. Then Toudou reported Yukio's case to Lucifer, and we have seen Lucifer did find the right way to approach Yukio

Mm. But idk, I still think Toudou is incredibly useful to the plot for comparisons and other stuff. I'm still more or less interested in any future flippant conversation they might have though. I don't think she's done with them yet. I'm especially keen to see how an interaction with Bon might go too.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 07:53:04 AM by Cherub »

Offline earthforge

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #584 on: May 19, 2017, 02:04:24 AM »
Many apologies for the massive tl;dr ahead. I've been working on this post intermittently for a few days between a conference and rereading Facets' hilarious AoEx translation blog for the five-billionth time.

I think Toudou's fascination with Yukio was due to the apparent similar situation they were in. However, it turns out they are actually not similar at all. Although he didn't say it very clearly, it looks like one of Toudou's motive was that he realizes he will never surpass his father and brother(s) no matter how hard he works as an exorcist. And he did achieve higher accomplishment when he became a demon, so his choice is actually kind of reasonable. Yukio is different. Although he is also following Shiro's career path, as a 15 years old boy he just started the career and doesn't have any reason to believe his accomplishment is limited. Then Toudou tried several ways to attack Yukio's mind and finally one of them seemed has effect : Yukio does envy Rin. However, Yukio does not envy Rin's power or strength (at least at IK arc). It was Rin's personality and the possibility that Shiro loved Rin more. Clearly Yukio can't gain anything if he joins Toudou so he won't. At the end Toudou realized that their problems are different. Then he laughed at Yukio's "both love and hate my brother" and commented it as childish. Toudou even tried to kill Yukio until the blue eye incident happened.

Therefore, in my opinion their interaction is already over at IK arc and Toudou doesn't have any more things to say. Toudou was correct that there is a dark/demon side inside Yukio's mind, but I think it is quite common among human and is not enough for a person to actually go evil. Then Toudou reported Yukio's case to Lucifer, and we have seen Lucifer did find the right way to approach Yukio

Gonna disagree. Toudou started the fight in Kyoto with Yukio simply to understand Karura's limits. He was playing around and not fighting seriously. That allowed Yukio to get the drop on Toudou with the naiad trap. Toudou was impressed by that but figured Yukio was just a boring ol' human and not worth the effort to manipulate, so he attempted to kill him. Thus when Yukio manifested a demonic ability, Toudou was pleasantly surprised and said he underestimated Yukio -- AKA Yukio was now worth the effort to turn.

After he felt he had a grasp on Karura's abilities after fighting Juuzou et al., Toudou got serious. After restraining the others, he proceeded to tear apart Yukio's self-loathing complex. He pointed out that way of thinking was self-denial and had limits. He was right. Yukio uses self-loathing as a coping strategy to keep himself centered, a daily reminder that his envy and resentment were bad especially in relation to Rin and he shouldn't indulge it. That meant he never learned to deal with the root of his resentment. Toudou then pushed on how Yukio was already well on his way to becoming a demon, linking in his envy of Rin who's also a demon (later was paraphrased by the portrait demon) and emphasizing how being a demon is totes awesome. Note that in all the time they were fighting, this is when when Yukio started to lose his temper. Facets did a really great analysis of what Yukio says here. Toudou's parting words that Yukio has a "nice look, the face of a demon, that's your true nature" hit Yukio hard because Toudou wasn't only saying that Yukio has a dark side, but implying that Yukio will inevitably become a demon because that's what Yukio is.

Fast-forward to now. Yukio's inability to confide in anyone has led to the suicide training, the failed attempt to get access to Hachiro's powers, and generally poor mental health. He's been acting progressively more demonic and hasn't been catching himself. He's gone from "if I were in your shoes, I would've gone crazy" to "just give me your flames" to quoting what Rin said in the Whale arc about them really being siblings who will never get along. Yukio's given up on his self-loathing and has accepted that he and Rin aren't alike. That's two coping strategies gone. He still is on the TC Order side out of sheer stubbornness (ah, Mr. I-Don't-Need-It), but he's slipping. His laughing in Rin's face feels like a portent of what he will act like as an honest-to-god villain. It makes me worry that Yukio could actually fall into exactly what Toudou said in their first meeting, that accepting his weakness and hatred would feel wonderful. So far the rest of Toudou's prediction has been right.

Toudou kicked the case upstairs to Lucy not because he realized they were different, but because he badly wants Yukio on their side and Yukio is too stubborn to listen to Toudou. Plus, Toudou got the information and did the groundwork that allowed Lucy to tempt Yukio in the way he did. If Toudou did realize they were different, I think his interest in Yukio would be long gone. But instead in his most recent appearance, he said "I like that kid", which was a biiiit more suggestive in the original Japanese. I believe Toudou's interest in Yukio is borne out of his own self-absorption, and that by pushing Yukio to the Illuminati, he is "helping" himself. Toudou doesn't really see Yukio Okumura, but a version of himself. That's Toudou's biggest weakness -- his arrogance.

Yukio has tried to refute Toudou before by insisting he's different. It doesn't work because, well, they are similar. They are both strategic, manipulative, and resentful. They do have critical differences. In particular, Toudou's given up and can't change. Yukio never gives up. His stubbornness is his greatest strength and weakness.

The story between those two isn't finished. Toudou is Yukio's nemesis, just as Lucifer is Mephisto's enemy and Satan is Rin's enemy. Rin intends to physically defeat Satan. Lucifer and Mephisto are waging war on each other through their pawns. Toudou and Yukio's conflict is about "making your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place". Yukio will win eventually, not by physical strength but by proving he is right.
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