Author Topic: Crack theories  (Read 145210 times)

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #255 on: February 20, 2014, 02:03:25 AM »
Mephy is clairvoyant and can turn invisible, but there is some debate if Yukio ever knew Satan opened a Gehenna Gate.

I'm pretty sure Mephy does though. At this point, I just assume by default that he knows everything. Maybe he was using the cockroach trick, or maybe he can actually watch people from a distance (IK fight, anyone?).

As for grieving over Shiro, I'm actually not sure Mephisto is capable of such a thing. He is a demon, after all, and he pretty much told us in our face that the concept of love is lost of him. I think we should regard the guy more as our friendly neighbourhood psychopath, someone who will defend his (and his allies') interests, but who won't shed any tears if things go wrong. If Rin were to get killed now, Mephisto would be momentarily disappointed that his plans got thwarted, but he'd probably move on to plan B before the body hits the ground. If we ever see any sadness from him, I expect it to be way more subtle than looking upset in front of a grave.

Offline facets-and-rainbows

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #256 on: February 20, 2014, 02:48:04 AM »
Maybe he was using the cockroach trick, or maybe he can actually watch people from a distance (IK fight, anyone?).

My headcanon was that since demons can sense each other, Satan is super powerful, and the monastery is pretty close to the school, Mephisto could have just noticed from a distance that Satan was over there and put two and two together. Though I don't doubt that he had the monastery bugged as well.

As for grieving over Shiro, I'm actually not sure Mephisto is capable of such a thing. He is a demon, after all, and he pretty much told us in our face that the concept of love is lost of him. I think we should regard the guy more as our friendly neighbourhood psychopath, someone who will defend his (and his allies') interests, but who won't shed any tears if things go wrong.

Plus even if he DID have a human level of love/compassion, he's immortal and probably used to human friends dying by now. At best it would be like a pet gerbil or something to him--you enjoy its company but you know it won't be around for long even if Satan doesn't kill it.

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #257 on: February 20, 2014, 03:06:15 AM »
^ Makes me wonder about his attitude towards Rin.

Do you think he sees him as more important because he might live longer?

Offline Orange

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #258 on: February 20, 2014, 03:14:37 AM »
I agree with basically everything facets-and-rainbows said in her/his last post, except that Mephisto seems to like Amaimon to some degree, considering that he's his brother and also immortal. And he seems to have some respect for his older brother. I don't remember his name... The king of light, I believe.

And a couple of crack theories I have are extremely ridiculous and... Crack.

Theory: Nemu Takara is related to Arthur August Angel.

Theory: Arthur August Angel used to be with Shura but they broke up.

Theory: Something big (like death) is going to happen to one or more of the eight demon kings.

Theory: Mephisto is Satan's spy.

Theory: Mephisto's Honey Honey sisters bathrobe kimono is going to get damaged.

Theory: Yukio will get another mole.

Theory: Sheimi and Izumo will never be actual friends. At least, Izumo won't admit it.

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #259 on: February 20, 2014, 03:24:25 AM »
I agree with basically everything facets-and-rainbows said in her/his last post, except that Mephisto seems to like Amaimon to some degree, considering that he's his brother and also immortal. And he seems to have some respect for his older brother. I don't remember his name... The king of light, I believe.
Lucifer.

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And a couple of crack theories I have are extremely ridiculous and... Crack.

Theory: Nemu Takara is related to Arthur August Angel.
Heh.

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Theory: Arthur August Angel used to be with Shura but they broke up.
I think so too.

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Theory: Something big (like death) is going to happen to one or more of the eight demon kings.
Can demons even die?

I'm still not clear on how you would go around killing one.

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Theory: Mephisto is Satan's spy.
I think it's pretty much a given that he's acting as a double spy for both the Order and Satan.

The question is where his real loyalty lies.

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Theory: Sheimi and Izumo will never be actual friends. At least, Izumo won't admit it.
Probably. They're too different.

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #260 on: February 20, 2014, 03:27:53 AM »
I think only a more powerful demon king would be able to kill another demon king... Or someone really cunning if he/she found a way to weaken said king and use one of the weapons we know can destroy demons (like black or blue flames).

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #261 on: February 20, 2014, 06:42:37 AM »
Quote
Also, @moon, the god you say is Susanoo, the snake he killed was Orochi (an eight headed monster) and he married Kushi-nada-hime (the last surviving of the 8 daughters of Ashi-nadzuchi and Te-nadzuchi, the other seven had been devoured by Orochi, Susanoo saved Kushinada and marries her).

This reminds me, in regards of Shura's sword, many seem to believe that it's the Kusa-nagi no tsurugi, that Susanoo extracted from Orochi's tail after killing it. But I think it's more likely the Totsuka-no-Tsurugi (also known as Ame-no-Habakiri , Ame-no-Ohabari or Worochi-no-Aramasa, that belonged to Izanagi and he passed down to Susanoo before he abandoned the heavens.

For two reasons:

- the Kusa-nagi no tsurugi belongs tot he Imperial family of Japan, I'm not sure if Kazue would actually go and say it's in the hands of some random person even if Shura has been stated as belonging to a rather important actually historically existing ninja clan.

- the release command, translations vary, says "Slay the serpent that devoured the 7 princesses." and the sword used to slay Orochi was Totsuka-no-Tsurugi, not Kusa-nagi no tsurugi.

Of course, Kazue could always pull Shura's sword being one of the many replicas that were made of Kusa-nagi no tsurugi to prevent the real one being stolen.

Thanks, Archer! I feel so bad when I forget these things DX

I believed that about her sword, too, but now that you list those two reasons, I believe your reasoning more.

Would a replica be able to do what she does with it though?

If the Imperial Sword is a Demon Blade in the Ao no Exorcist Universe, then, for the replicas to cheat the robbers, they should be able to imitate the original's power.

Either way, Kazue could pull a:

"The Totsuka-no-Tsurugi is said to have been the first demon blade, gaining the power of summoning and controlling snakes when it bathed in the blood of the Orochi demon as Susanoo slay it."

or

"The Kusa-nagi no tsurugi was the first demon blade, made out of the body of the Orochi demon, it retained its power to control serpents."
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 06:44:19 AM by MetallicArcher »

Offline themoonlandian

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #262 on: February 20, 2014, 06:46:23 AM »
Wouldn't they know, though? I mean, it's obviously not going to be as powerful; and if you're going to steal it you'd probably understand what it's capable of.
Or maybe make the replicas be able to kill the robbers or something. *shrugs*

Knowing Katou she could pull anything.

I like the idea of it being the first demon blade, but I have a feeling there are stories older than it out there.
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Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #263 on: February 20, 2014, 07:18:36 AM »
The  texts telling the mythological origins of Japan are dated as coming from the 8th century with Shinto being founded around the 7th... but they speak of the world from its creation so technically, even if the story was recorded several centuries later, the sword would be as old as the world.

The Nihon Shoki ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihon_Shoki ) signals Emperor Jimmu ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Jimmu ) as the first ruler of Japan in the year 660 BC.

According to tradition, his ancestry goes like this ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_emperors_family_tree ) :

-> Izanagi and Izanami create the land of Japan (Izanami dies giving birth to Kagu-tsuchi,  Izanagi kills the child, goes tot he underworld, fails to bring Izanami back and has a fight with her that causes the beggining of the cycle of life and death for living beings)

-> Amateratsu is born alongside her brothers from Izanagi as he purifies himself,

->  Ame no Oshihomimi no Mikoto ( http://eos.kokugakuin.ac.jp/modules/xwords/entry.php?entryID=41 ) is born from Amateratsu's jewels,

-> Ninigi-no-Mikoto ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninigi-no-Mikoto ) is born from Ame no Oshihomimi and sent to Japan by Amateratsu,

-> Hikohohodemi no Mikoto ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikohohodemi_no_Mikoto ) is born from Ninigi-no-Mikoto and Konohana-Sakuya-hime ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konohanasakuya-hime )

-> Hikonagisa Takeugaya Fukiaezu no Mikoto ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikonagisa_Takeugaya_Fukiaezu_no_Mikoto ) was born from Hikohohodemi no Mikoto and  Toyotama-hime ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyotama-hime )

-> Kan'yamato Iwarebiko (Emperor Jimmu) was born from Hikonagisa Takeugaya Fukiaezu no Mikoto and  Tamayori-hime ( http://eos.kokugakuin.ac.jp/modules/xwords/entry.php?entryID=151 )

Offline themoonlandian

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #264 on: February 20, 2014, 07:32:43 AM »
^Of course they'll be older than what is written. I just mean since there is no time in those kind of myths and legends, that it's possible that there were others before that one in particular.
Hell, they could all have been made at the exact same time all around the world.
*Each culture gets its first demon sword thinger*

Shall read through those soon.


-----
Okay now for my crack theory....
Some of it is kinda more probability, but other pieces are more cracky.

So.
Mephisto.
Bear with me and the factual info :P This is going to be messy...Sorry if I forget to include points.

Medieval times: 5th century to the 16th century.
Vatican was built before then, and Rome became Christian before then it seems.
So. 200-ish years before the medieval ages hit.

But, of course, we can be fairly certain Mephisto has been in Assiah for an insanely amount of time - and I believe he's been with True Cross for awhile - I'm thinking the beginning.

Isis brought up that in some cases Mephisto is said to have worked under Lucifer. Maybe he was mistaken for Satan, but I thought...
[Welsh Mythos]
What if one's Gwydion and the other Gilfaethwy? Gwydion is a trickster god, and Gilfaethwy is his brother who also would play tricks. (I'm not sure who is older and who is younger)
I'm thinking Gwydion is Mephisto, since Gwydion is ''a cunning enchanter and patron of the arts and education''.
They do have a whole ''hind and stag incident'' but I'm leaving that out....
Why do I bring this up? Maybe because at this point in time Mephisto and Lucifer were closer, and both enjoyed playing around in Assiah. They obviously both still love Assiah now; just have different ideas and such...
So - maybe they were very close brothers and loved to frolick around and mess with the humans a bit.

Then Christianity came, and eventually, the True Cross.
So, there's Mephy and Lucifer, being treated as gods - and then they become demonized and are hunted. May be fun at first, but I imagine it'd become tiresome after some time.
So, Mephy takes part in forming the True Cross Order to be an exorcist organization instead of a military one. He knows that they need to use different cultures in order to be affective. And, he knows they can use 'demons' to aid them - as it was done by the ''pagans'' before that anyways.
Hence, some demons are put in a bit more safety and Mephy can gladly enjoy his humans and not have to feel like killing them. Throughout the years Mephisto has added his touches to it....

Now, I can't really say when Mephisto officially joined the order, it's obviously been a fair while...but moving on to other things:

Now, we know Mephisto says he's been called ''Loki'', ''trickster'', and ''raven'' and he's been using Mephisto for around (or over) 200 years.
As I posted before:

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The name can also be a combination of three Greek words: "me" as a negation, "phos" meaning light, and "philis" meaning loving, making it mean "not-light-loving", possibly parodying the Latin "Lucifer" or "light-bearer".

And then the Illuminati:
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The movement was founded on May 1, 1776

Now, Lucifer's Illuminati may be newer but...
Going by that date saying that Lucifer started this organization then would possibly say that:

Mephisto and Lucifer came to a point in which they had a disagreement - the one of which we all know about - Assiah. After it became apparent they couldn't agree, they decided to go their separate ways and hope that one would give in.
I'd say this is a possible time when Mephisto joined the Order officially. He could now have the back-up of the exorcists to use, and still have fun in the meantime of course.
And Lucifer went off to create the Illuminati...it got ruined and all but he kept bringing it up out of the ground and such.

And now we are where we are at now.

And I'm going to bed...sorry if I missed points. Pretty sure I did...And I'll read those Archer I sweareth!
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Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #265 on: February 20, 2014, 07:56:39 AM »
I have only one problem... I like the general alignment of the ideas but....

In chapter 14 ( http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v04/c014/38.html ) is said to have been serving the Order for 200 years.

In chapter 50 ( http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v12/c050/14.html ) Yukio explains the real Illuminati collapsed 200 years ago BUT there are many organisations using the name.

This current Illuminati seem to have been operating for a period of between 10 to 20 years ( http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v12/c050/15.html ) -the translation says a decade but someone on the forum explained the kanji means a period of time of between 10 to 20 years -

Also, Mephisto told Rin he has been being called like that for 200 years in chapter 39 ( http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v10/c039/18.html )

Which make sme thing something quite bad went down between Mephisto and Satan/Lucifer around that time and he said "Screw you, see me dedicate my existence to do everything that you do not want a demon to do."

On a side note, I noted something interesting in this page:

http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v04/c014/37.html

The Grigori dude has a slip when he speaks and calls demons "their enemies" and then corrects it to "enemies of Assiah".

I wonder if it means something...
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 03:23:53 PM by MetallicArcher »

Offline themoonlandian

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #266 on: February 21, 2014, 04:43:45 AM »
Hmm see I forgot about him saying when he joined the order - but it works with what I was saying at least. (The name and time he joined match fairly well.)

I know the Illuminati Lucifer's in was more new, that's why I though maybe it collapsed the first time he tried it. But, it could also be just that they had a disagreement and Lucifer went off and sulked for almost  200 years as well. Or planned stuff.

And Mr.Grigori dude, I now I'm curious as to what that slip means. Thanks for pointing that out Archer.
So what is ''our''? The Grigori? Just the Order? Just people? Daaaamn we'll probably never know...
Maybe he hates demons to the core but knows the Order relies on them so he's not allowed to hold such thoughts or something.
*shrug*
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Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #267 on: February 21, 2014, 05:10:34 AM »
Well, maybe the Grigori are kind of old fashioned in their way of thinking and wish they could do like in the old days where they labelled the gods of all the other religions as demons and hunted down people who worshipped them.

I think Kazue is trying to separate the historical Illuminati from Lucifer's group. The historical Illuminati goals were quite good while Lucy's Illuminati sound quite sectarian.

Now I'm thinking, maybe the original Illuminati belonged to Mephisto (their collapse and the time he joined the Order are the same). Before he joined, the Order would refuse to acknowledge not all demons are treats or accept people with demon blood... until something went down that forced the Vatican to join forces with other religions where it was common for people to form clans and share their blood with demons and have pacts with them to access their power.

I really think 200 years ago is a key event to the story... but I don't think we have any more clues about that date than the ones I already mentioned.

Or did any other character mention an event taking place 200 years before the current storyline?

Offline themoonlandian

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #268 on: February 21, 2014, 05:29:00 AM »
That's possible.
I wonder if the Grigori can even actually do any exorcist stuff.

Yeah, you're probably right that she is.

I wondered about that, too, briefly. But I'm not sure how to connect Mephisto to the original Illuminati; doesn't even seem his style to me, personally.

Sounds like something the order would do.

Again, I think you may be right. I think there will be more mentions of stuff ''200 years ago'' later in the manga. Most things mentioned seemed to take place more than 100 years ago, but no more than 200 if I remember correctly.

I really need to re-read the manga to remember stuff... I wish I had the missing volumes so I could sit in bed and read through them easier T~T
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Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Crack theories
« Reply #269 on: February 21, 2014, 05:39:32 AM »
Well, when Mephisto gave his speech about the "3 desires" he mentioned he, too, yearned for knowledge of many things that escaped him, and the original Illuminati were enemies of the Vatican because they would seek knowledge and refuse imposed truth (and wanted gender equality).

One of Mpehisto's questions was about why Assiah and Gehena existed in the way they did. Maybe Mephisto was working on that with the Original Illuminati and the Vatican didn't like that there was a group putting angels in the same category than demons or "pagan" gods. Until Lucy decided to show up and attack with an army of... angels...