Author Topic: Chapter 109 ENG  (Read 4234 times)

Offline earthforge

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Re: Chapter 109 ENG
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2019, 07:27:52 AM »
Mojo, I think that's part of the reason why showing Yukio the past never worked. He doesn't really care about the past. He just cares about knowing why he is so weak. Who Yuri, Shiro, and Satan were is meaningless information to him.

Using Rin as an organ-harvesting sources, facets? Please, we don't need to give the angst-Rin fic writers even more premises for senselessly depraved and miserable stories.

Although now this gives me an idea for an AU where Rin manages to never find out what he is until he has to donate a kidney, and then is shocked when it regrows.

One thing's for sure, Yukio is born human. The cradle barrier dropped as soon as Rin launched out the chute. So that leaves Yukio as human with implanted demon eyes or somethin', or born with his powers dormant. The only reason why I'm not all in on the implanted eyes idea, is that Satan seems to only have sight/control of Yukio's left eye even though Yukio's right eye also changes to look demonic.

I wonder what's up with demon Rin. My theory is that Rin's demon heart was subdued by Kurikara soon after he was born, which allowed Rin to develop a normal human soul. However, since Rin's demon heart was so powerful, it could still influence Rin's human soul. As seals were undone (drawing Kurikara and later breaking Kurikara), Rin's demon heart became more aware and dominant. So the going thought here is that Rin's demon heart didn't "incarnate" when Kurikara broke, but actually at birth. Which would explain why demon Rin is so violent -- it was initialized as an infant.

I'm not sure how Katou is going to tackle this. Demon Rin isn't a poor misunderstood waif, he's an active threat to Rin. He wants to be rid of the human soul. I guess he's the perfect way of preparing Rin to take on Satan, because demon Rin and Satan are very similar -- intent on taking Rin's body for their own, homicidally destructive, and somewhat... disconnected.
"There are no answers. Only choices."

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Chapter 109 ENG
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2019, 01:08:04 PM »
The only reason why I'm not all in on the implanted eyes idea, is that Satan seems to only have sight/control of Yukio's left eye even though Yukio's right eye also changes to look demonic.
Since it's a demonic eye, even though it's not the one possessed, maybe it's reacting to the other one.
Other than the eyes, Yukio has no demon traits, like sharp teeth and so on.

I wonder what's up with demon Rin. My theory is that Rin's demon heart was subdued by Kurikara soon after he was born, which allowed Rin to develop a normal human soul. However, since Rin's demon heart was so powerful, it could still influence Rin's human soul. As seals were undone (drawing Kurikara and later breaking Kurikara), Rin's demon heart became more aware and dominant. So the going thought here is that Rin's demon heart didn't "incarnate" when Kurikara broke, but actually at birth. Which would explain why demon Rin is so violent -- it was initialized as an infant.

I'm not sure how Katou is going to tackle this. Demon Rin isn't a poor misunderstood waif, he's an active threat to Rin. He wants to be rid of the human soul. I guess he's the perfect way of preparing Rin to take on Satan, because demon Rin and Satan are very similar -- intent on taking Rin's body for their own, homicidally destructive, and somewhat... disconnected.
It's the first time I realize, maybe because I dropped bleach a long time ago, but Demon Rin is kind of like Hollow Ichigo...

Offline tandem

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Re: Chapter 109 ENG
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2019, 02:16:54 PM »
I think Lucifer might filter out the past to push Yukio closer, plus Yuri's actions and Shiro's past are rather very misrepresent-able (if that's a word).  Yukio thinks things through too rationally for his own good, so that might lead him to despise Yuri or Shiro if some details are cut off.
Really, does Lucifer need to mislead Yukio anything about the past? Although we can somewhat understand Yuri or Shiro, it's not like either of them made correct decision (at least that's what I thought after chapter 107 and 108). Not to mention the Order surely is not an organization composed of nice people. Knowing Rin was a frightening demon baby doesn't help either.

Still, right now I think the top priority in Yukio's mind should still be how to control his hidden power or how to sort out Satan's connection to his eyes. His opinion on the Illuminati will be mostly dominated by how his problems can be solved.

Offline Wikkelsoee

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Re: Chapter 109 ENG
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2019, 01:51:49 PM »
I feel like an idiot. It never occurred to me that the Order would have an actual reason to hate Rin besides his ties to Satan. Turns out THEY WERE MUCH HAVE A REASON WTF
I wonder how many in the order actually know what happened that night.
We saw the people of Myo-Dha getting killed in their temple on the Blue Night, but you think the birth has anything to do with it? Have they even mentioned the Blue Night since the Kyoto arc?

Offline Yukio

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Re: Chapter 109 ENG
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2019, 04:45:50 PM »
Quote
^I think until now we still don't really have evidence that Yukio inherited any demon gene. He's connected to Satan through his eyes but no other demon part like tail or horn. Anyway, the Order didn't find any demon sign on Yukio when he was born, otherwise they wouldn't ignore Yukio like that when they sent Rin to the court.

Which makes me wonder why Lucifer is bothering with Yukio in the first place?   


I haven't been following too much so forgive any misunderstanding but isn't there a third party involved in this? The man in the shadows who has been key into pressuring Yukio into joining illuminati apart from Mephisto and Lucifer, someone who shot Mephisto in the head? Personally I would love Yukio turning into a demon eater, the concept has to be introduced for a reason. The power to change/possess demons like one changes clothes is just superb. It would make sense why Satan couldn't control Yukio completely. And if Yukio is going to be Darth Vader of this manga, I am going to look forward to April even more.

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Chapter 109 ENG
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2019, 09:26:49 AM »
I feel like an idiot. It never occurred to me that the Order would have an actual reason to hate Rin besides his ties to Satan. Turns out THEY WERE MUCH HAVE A REASON WTF
Before, I always pictured it as the baby acting like a normal baby, but the flames acting wild around it.
So it would make sens for the Order to think it was dangerous, and for others to think it was just an innocent baby.
But in the end, it's not just the flames that got wild.

I wonder how many in the order actually know what happened that night.
Not many I presume.

I'm still wondering why and how did the Gregory not know that Shirou was raising the twins.
Shirou was raising two orphan twins who had the right age and one of them, the one who was the most often seen in the order and was even renowned as a prodigy, happened to look a lot like Yuri, and no one ever thought these might be Satan and Yuri's twins.
I don't get it.

The Shemihaza representative from the flashback clearly was aware of what happened. But she most likely died (or something related to Shiemi's wiped out memory...) during those events. Then she was replaced by the current Shemihaza representative who doesn't know what happened. I guess.

We saw the people of Myo-Dha getting killed in their temple on the Blue Night, but you think the birth has anything to do with it? Have they even mentioned the Blue Night since the Kyoto arc?
I don't remember exactly who and when, but it was said in the story that the Blue Night happened because Satan was possessing people all over the world in his search for the twins after their birth. I don't know if it's a lie or not, but it seems likely.

I haven't been following too much so forgive any misunderstanding but isn't there a third party involved in this? The man in the shadows who has been key into pressuring Yukio into joining illuminati apart from Mephisto and Lucifer, someone who shot Mephisto in the head?
The guy who shot Mephisto in the head looked like a simple henchman, probably at the service of the Illuminaty.

Personally I would love Yukio turning into a demon eater, the concept has to be introduced for a reason. The power to change/possess demons like one changes clothes is just superb. It would make sense why Satan couldn't control Yukio completely.
I would love it too.
But why do you think demon eaters are harder to possess?
I ask because you really made me wonder... can a demon eater be possessed...?

EDIT:
I was more interested to see Yukio's birth, Yuri's death, and Sirou's change of heart.
In this situation, why would Shiro had the chance to pretend he killed the babies? And Yuri should live long enough to give her children names. And Satan should kill more people to complete the blue night. And Lucifer should do something so he wouldn't be ignored ... I think there are plenty of events to be revealed
I guess Mephisto will do something. Last chapter he said something about there being "complete confusion", right? Maybe he'll manage to fool people into thinking Shirou killed the twins, somehow, while actually sending them to one of his pocket space. Then he has all the time he wants to convince Shirou that raising them is a better idea than killing them. It would make sense with what we know of Mephisto's powers and way of doing things. The only thing I don't like about this, is I hoped Yuri would be the one to convince Shirou. Unless, Mephisto also manages to save Yuri too, at least for a while before she dies...
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 09:51:38 AM by chinonamida »

Offline Yukio

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Re: Chapter 109 ENG
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2019, 09:33:46 AM »

I would love it too.
But why do you think demon eaters are harder to possess?
I ask because you really made me wonder... can a demon eater be possessed...?

Have we actually seen any possession other than Baal trying to possess clones? If it is a high level demon possession, they wouldn't want to be restricted by human bodies, like in case of impure princess. It also confused me with how Izumo's mum tried to die with nine tails held within her. Was she successful? Can she really be? Also demon eaters force possession upon themselves and compatibility can be very little but are important to Lucifer's plans.

So will Yukio be a prototype demon eater without ninetails' aid. As such Satan hasn't been able to override his will so it will be interesting.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 09:43:31 AM by Yukio »

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Chapter 109 ENG
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2019, 07:12:31 PM »
Have we actually seen any possession other than Baal trying to possess clones?
Human possession?
Like you said in your other post, there's Shiratori, and like you say in this post, there's Tamamo and Izumo, also there's Satan possessing a bunch of people, there's Azazel possessing at least one guy before becoming a statue, there was Tamamo and Izumo's ancestor who was very briefly shown, and we can assume there are many more. Why do you ask?

If it is a high level demon possession, they wouldn't want to be restricted by human bodies, like in case of impure princess.
The Impure King and the Impure Princess are not on Ba'al's level. They are powerful, but they don't seem to be thinking much, just like the viruses they possess. I assume the Ba'al prefers to possess humans because they're the beings on earth with the highest abilities to think and speak adding to the fact they're currently ruling the earth. While possessing humans, they can do anything a human can and even more, which is a lot compared to what the Impure King and Princess can do. I think possessing a human is the better choice.
For example, I don't know if Egyn the King of Water could possess the entire ocean if he tried to, and that seems like it would give him way more power over the beings living on earth if he did so, but would that really be fun to be the ocean? I don't know.

It also confused me with how Izumo's mum tried to die with nine tails held within her. Was she successful? Can she really be?
Like Shirou did with Satan, she sent the Ninetails back to Gehena.
She succeeded in taking the Ninetails away from Izumo.

Also demon eaters force possession upon themselves and compatibility can be very little but are important to Lucifer's plans.
True, if we say it like that, Demon Eaters can be possessed.
But what I meant to say is, can Demon Eaters loose control to the demons possessing them or do they always keep control?

So will Yukio be a prototype demon eater without ninetails' aid.
Now they have Hachirou instead of the Ninetails.

As such Satan hasn't been able to override his will so it will be interesting.
But like I said in the other post, Satan his just possessing his eye right now. Before being able to control Yukio's entire body, he would need to possess his entire body, no?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 07:15:28 PM by chinonamida »

Offline tandem

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Re: Chapter 109 ENG
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2019, 11:49:20 AM »
I wonder how many in the order actually know what happened that night.
Not many I presume.

I'm still wondering why and how did the Gregory not know that Shirou was raising the twins.
Shirou was raising two orphan twins who had the right age and one of them, the one who was the most often seen in the order and was even renowned as a prodigy, happened to look a lot like Yuri, and no one ever thought these might be Satan and Yuri's twins.
I don't get it.

The Shemihaza representative from the flashback clearly was aware of what happened. But she most likely died (or something related to Shiemi's wiped out memory...) during those events. Then she was replaced by the current Shemihaza representative who doesn't know what happened. I guess.
I guess most people of the Order didn't know that Shiro was raising two children. That was just his privacy, and he could avoid the topic if anyone asked him about his daily life. Maybe Shiro even temporarily raised some other children in the monastery to confuse other people. When Yukio went to the cram school, since Shiro could order Yukio not to tell Rin anything, Shiro could also order Yukio not to tell any exorcist that he has a twin brother.

For Yukio's similar appearance, I think people won't notice because he is just a teenager boy while Yuri was a mature woman. Moreover, it's possible that most exorcists who were familiar with Yuri are no longer in Japan branch. After all, Mephisto has helped Shiro to cover the existence of the twins.

Still, we can't rule out the possibility that current Grigori actually knew that Shiro was raising Satan's children (as weapon). Maybe they pretend they didn't know because they think Angel and most Order members might not accept it.

I was more interested to see Yukio's birth, Yuri's death, and Sirou's change of heart.
In this situation, why would Shiro had the chance to pretend he killed the babies? And Yuri should live long enough to give her children names. And Satan should kill more people to complete the blue night. And Lucifer should do something so he wouldn't be ignored ... I think there are plenty of events to be revealed
I guess Mephisto will do something. Last chapter he said something about there being "complete confusion", right? Maybe he'll manage to fool people into thinking Shirou killed the twins, somehow, while actually sending them to one of his pocket space. Then he has all the time he wants to convince Shirou that raising them is a better idea than killing them. It would make sense with what we know of Mephisto's powers and way of doing things. The only thing I don't like about this, is I hoped Yuri would be the one to convince Shirou. Unless, Mephisto also manages to save Yuri too, at least for a while before she dies...
Maybe Mephisto would interfere, but it seems he didn't tell Shiro anything about keeping the babies alive. Not sure how Shiro could possibly change his mind.

can Demon Eaters loose control to the demons possessing them or do they always keep control?
I thought it's implied that Karura had chance to control Toudou, but Toudou managed to win against it.

And there was the woman who tried to eat Impure Princess but failed.

So will Yukio be a prototype demon eater without ninetails' aid.
Now they have Hachirou instead of the Ninetails.
Looks like Hachiro is for reviving Satan, but nine-tail was for demon eaters, so they are not replacement of each other. They abandoned the far-east lab like they don't need nine-tail anymore.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 03:53:18 PM by tandem »

Offline Yukio

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Re: Chapter 109 ENG
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2019, 12:08:03 PM »
Human possession?
Like you said in your other post, there's Shiratori, and like you say in this post, there's Tamamo and Izumo, also there's Satan possessing a bunch of people, there's Azazel possessing at least one guy before becoming a statue, there was Tamamo and Izumo's ancestor who was very briefly shown, and we can assume there are many more. Why do you ask?

About the possession I meant long term, stable and 'habitable' possession but I then remembered when during three monkeys and Rin at the bathhouse incident, he was easily possessed and was easily influenced like during seven mysteries.
Quote
The Impure King and the Impure Princess are not on Ba'al's level. They are powerful, but they don't seem to be thinking much, just like the viruses they possess. I assume the Ba'al prefers to possess humans because they're the beings on earth with the highest abilities to think and speak adding to the fact they're currently ruling the earth. While possessing humans, they can do anything a human can and even more, which is a lot compared to what the Impure King and Princess can do. I think possessing a human is the better choice.
For example, I don't know if Egyn the King of Water could possess the entire ocean if he tried to, and that seems like it would give him way more power over the beings living on earth if he did so, but would that really be fun to be the ocean? I don't know.

True

Quote
Like Shirou did with Satan, she sent the Ninetails back to Gehena.
She succeeded in taking the Ninetails away from Izumo.

Ah thanks. I didn't think that death for demons would mean Gehenna, I still think maybe Nine tails should have tried to regenerate or could have moved on to another host like the younger Kamiki sister, even if she had weaker blood, because a once high compatibility with Izumo was suddenly lowered to few decimals, all within a year. It seemed suspicious.

Quote
True, if we say it like that, Demon Eaters can be possessed.
But what I meant to say is, can Demon Eaters loose control to the demons possessing them or do they always keep control?

If Demon Eaters lose control, they would likely die. But they can lose control, like during Tamamo's case, I think it will likely show as demon characteristics/behaviour taking over or when completely controlled will be like Todou with side effects of regeneration. Like in Gedoin's case he did lose control and irreversibly lost physical dimensions. But you do bring an important point. Most of these cases have been done in labs or in controlled situation, so few natural examples remain.

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Chapter 109 ENG
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2019, 09:08:23 PM »
can Demon Eaters loose control to the demons possessing them or do they always keep control?
I thought it's implied that Karura had chance to control Toudou, but Toudou managed to win against it.

And there was the woman who tried to eat Impure Princess but failed.
I remember Toudou could have died if he failed, but I don't remember them mentioning Karura could have taken control of him.

Right, the Impure Princess was there because a Demon Eater failed to control her after eating her. I had forgotten about that.

So will Yukio be a prototype demon eater without ninetails' aid.
Now they have Hachirou instead of the Ninetails.
Looks like Hachiro is for reviving Satan, but nine-tail was for demon eaters, so they are not replacement of each other.
Are you sure? Maybe I should check again...

during three monkeys and Rin at the bathhouse incident, he was easily possessed and was easily influenced like during seven mysteries.
It wasn't possession with the three monkeys.
I remember one translation mistakenly wrote "possession", but it wasn't the case.

If Demon Eaters lose control, they would likely die. But they can lose control, like during Tamamo's case, I think it will likely show as demon characteristics/behaviour taking over or when completely controlled will be like Todou with side effects of regeneration. Like in Gedoin's case he did lose control and irreversibly lost physical dimensions.
Yeah, I guess demon eaters can either keep control, loose control or die.

I forgot Tamamo was a demon eater. Back then I was under the false impression she wasn't, because she was dancing to get possessed, which is not at all like Toudou who literally ate Karura. Though later when Gedouin got possessed, I realised the helmet was imitating what Toudou does without needing to literally eat the demon... or that's what I guess... I should really go back and verify this.

Online GregoryRaino

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Online GregoryRaino

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Re: Chapter 109 ENG
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Offline FrankJScott

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Top Packing Machinery Tips
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