Author Topic: Chapter 97 RAW  (Read 27217 times)

Offline HorseTechie

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #90 on: January 06, 2018, 01:34:31 PM »
Ah... this debate on how the twins relate is 'interesting'.

I have seen other tough relationships, and even though it's not manga, I thought of Leonardo and Raphael from the old school black n white Ninja Turtle comics. Those two were always on a power struggle on who was better (one being hot tempered and the other more intelligent and methodical - and being raised to fight against their surrogate father's enemy), and at the same time, flirting with certain other members on the opposing side. Even though it was rough seeing that the group was breaking up, Leo n Raph eventually mature and realize what really matters about family. It took years though... but it still tured around.

So... even though it appears that Yukio has become a goner, I really haven't seen anything that is considered truly sinister (I mean, he's not totally at the level of Kylo Ren yet!)

However the one thing that I remind myself is that they ARE sons if Satan. Satan! Satan is like, well, anything certain to bring hellish times. War, pain, angst, hate, fear, darkness... never truly happy things, like sunny warm meadows and loving hugs n kisses. With that being said, to see if Rin and Yukio could overcome the shadow of Satan would be a real victory!

On another topic... Yukio's left eye.  In trying to understand how Satan lives in there, I guess the flame that comes from it is not like Rin's flames?  Because, apparently Yukio can cover it with his hand and not get hurt. Or that a cloth bandana is sufficient in covering it. So the laser effect can only activate (like with Satan's voice) if the danger is actually seen? Silly question, but I had to wonder! 

On Yukio's hair... I would prefer an emo hair style, because the other Illuminati trend seems to be the bowl cut. With the bangs cut straight across the brow. That look on Yukio may be more alarming!

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #91 on: January 06, 2018, 02:29:09 PM »
IMO the only inevitable "redemption" needed is Yukio changes his recent opinion about Shiro (probably also the Order), and fight for human again.

I made this experiment: I took the whole BTS arc (and aren't we gonna mention we're STILL in it? (chapter 97: beyond the snow part 6 (crap, this thing's getting really long))) and read it all at once.

Okay. Premise: let's say the "Yukio before trying to shoot himself in chapter 93" and the "Yukio after that" could kinda be considered 2 different "persons" since right after that attempt Yukio decides he's -definitely- done with his fake act for good and starts to literally do/say what the heck he feels like without giving a shet anymore. But, I think it's kinda safe to state Yukio was kinda starting to give signs something was already in the air before the BTS arc began. Like, through laughing in the face of people, pointing guns, making scary/evil glares and such. So, what I want to say is, Yukio was already "in the process" of a (dark) "change" before this arc.

But, in chapter 93 he opens the usb contents and... um, dunno how to put it. I never stop to consider it, but it feels somehow "incredible" (imo) how emotional he suddenly turns after finding out about S13. Like he's briefly out of his "cold and numb" state and he can feel emotions again. It's like those big revelations caused him to abruptly snap out of his "insane" state (temporarily). Maybe it's not something THAT biggie. But after chapter 90 and before chapter 93 I doubted Yukio could still be able to get emotional.

Now, yeah, as I said, the Yukio after chapter 93 and the Yukio before chapter 93 are on two different levels. But my point is: the "slightly insane/numb" Yukio, despite everything, in chapter 93 kinda proved he still retained some "sanity/emotions" inside of him. After chapter 93, it'd look like he upgraded to a completely "insane/numb" state after all the shet that happens afterwards. But in chapter 97 I got some doubts.

In chapter 93 Yukio wonders "What is good and what is evil?" during his "raging/emotional rampage". And, finally, in chapter 97 he recognizes and defines Lucifer/Illuminati/their cause and he himself as EVIL. That's proof, to me, he's STILL sane, deep inside, or even just "rational" enough, despite everything. I see it as a sign of hope. A sign that he's still somehow on the same "level" of before chapter 93 even if it got "worse", on the other hand.

And if he really is, it makes me hope that another big/terrible/devastating revelation could still work on him as S13's did. What I mean is that I think that as long as he retains even a lil bit of emotions (even if he doesn' show them/he's not even aware of feeling them) there could be hope that by "provoking" them he could "snap" out of his "insane/numb" state again. (which reminds me of episode 24 of the anime with Rin saying "Yukio is still in there somewhere and if we keep calling him, he'll snap out of it.")

Back to chapter 93 again. After Yukio starts feeling "tired" he finds himself in front of Futsumaya, encounters Shiemi and talks with her. I like to think Yukio said those things/hugged Shiemi out of honest feelings. So, deep inside, as I think earthy said, Yukio craves affection but prolly just feels like he doesn't deserve it (or something along these lines).

Long story short, I feel Yukio is not completely that lost cause he seems right now. I don't know what exactly or what kind of "revelation" could make him "react" at this point and/or show signs of still being capable of feeling emotions but I'm kinda sure he still got 'em in him somewhere/somehow. Even towards Rin. And I'm not talking about "competition". He did say he loves and hates him and I like to count that as an "honest admission" as what he said to Shiemi.

Also, if Yukio recognizes himself (alongside Lucifer and his crew) as evil I wonder if he'll be willing to turn into an enemy/killer of humanity, after all, even if it's for his thirst of power. I believed it'd be prepared to do that if it wasn't for the fact he said/recognized he's evil. How could he prove he's "stronger" than Rin if he used his power to kill people? I think it'd be "logic" to use it to save them. Unless all Yukio is willing to gain power for is only to fight/defeat specifically Rin. But, I don't think so.

A couple last thoughts about chapter 97. When Yukio declares "I don't know what will happen if I go to the Illuminati blah blah" Yukio's pose and the fact he's covering his eye with his hand makes it possible to see very lil of his facial expression while he's saying those things. I wonder if that was on purpose. When Rin told Yukio "Someday I'm gonna surpass you", the panel (a pretty big one) was completely focused on him and his facial expression.

But in Yukio's case it's nothing like that. And considering the importance of the words spoken I expected more focus on this bit. Also, Yukio is looking at Rin while slightly turned to his left side. Why this choice? Wouldn't have given a "slightly" better view of Yukio's face if he was turned on his right side? Just technical stuff, forgive me.

Anyway, if the twins are gonna meet again only by the end of the manga, I expected a better "departure scene" with a better "stylistic structure". But as it's played/designed, it feels a lil "simplified". There could be reasons, but. And this connects to my second thought: at first I commented that I had a feeling the twins could meet up again only at the end. I read Yukio's words again. And he says: "But if we DO both live through this, I'll be stronger than you."

If I'm honest, at first I read it as: "Once all this will be over and IF we still will both be alive, we'll meet again and I'll be stronger than you." But, please, someone tell me this could be just my personal interpretation and what Yukio actually said can't necessary be read like this. I hope I'm wrong and that what Yukio meant is that the most important thing to him is that by the end of the story he'll be the stronger one so it's okay to him if he and Rin happened to meet once in a while and it's not like he wants/would run away if they happened to meet. 'Cause... I want to believe they will meet again sometimes and not in 10 years from now.

Edit:
It could a quick way to let them start a "rescue Yukio" mission. If they just start rescue right after Yukio's reveal, it would be too unrealistic like everyone is a saint, but now they have the information that Satan is between all these, so that will be enough reason. Since it doesn't seem like Yukio is completely forced to do so, they will know they have to be careful.

So maybe Rin will still be somewhat mad at Yukio the next time they meet, but it will be in a cool down state due to the complex situation.

For as much as I'd like the idea of Rin and co. going for another "rescue Yukio" mission, since the first attempt failed miserably and since Yukio made it plain clear he doesn't need help/can't stand to be rescued I kinda doubt this could happen again. If I'm realistic, I think even Rin would not take it into consideration now (for as much as he'd want to get Yukio back/have at least a chance to meet him/talk to him again). I think Yukio's point got through Rin for good after chapter 96.

I'm not saying Rin won't entartain the idea for a while (after he recovers) but I can already picture him replaying Yukio's words in his mind and think "Would it be a good idea to try and rescue him again after all?". If Rin still respects Yukio, I think he won't try to plan to rescue him again. But he won't also feel like letting him stay in the Illuminati. I guess he'll agonize over what to do for a while (always if, as I said, he'll be over his rage status toward Yukio after he'll have processed what happened).

Honestly, I don't know what he could come up with or what he could decide to do. Leave things as they are ("Yukio wants power and the Illuminati can help him? Then okay, I'll leave him be if that's what he wants.") or if he will still feel like not giving up on him. Or maybe things with the opening of the Arificial Gate will get worse and he'll be summoned to help and he won't have time/way to go for personal quests. If I got this right, involving Amaimon in the rescue plan, was meant to "save Rin and the exwires" by any "betrayal" accusation or something like this. So, technically, Rin and the exwires are "clear" and will still be considered members of the Order as if nothing happened.

Also, if Rin's gonna get some development by the end of this arc I suspect he may not be the "healdlong" guy as before who would just rush in to save someone. This is what I think. And the experience with Yukio may have him reconsider a lot of things about himself too.

So, I really have no clue. I only pictured a case were Rin and Yukio happen to meet and instead of offering him help, Rin offers Yukio to "use" him somehow, at least. Such as in the Aomori arc. At the time, Yukio studied a plan which involved having Rin stab Hachirotaro in the back in a surprise attack. So he kinda "used" him. Prolly Yukio is "okay" with this kinda "help". Just random thoughts.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 03:23:16 PM by Cloelia »

Offline tandem

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #92 on: January 06, 2018, 04:10:26 PM »
I mean he does talk about tempering Rin's body to perfectly withstand the flames...talks about his promise with Mephisto...and says 'the body will me mine'. That's not directly saying 'I'm totally gonna possess you', but it's damn close. Anyone got an alternate interpretation of this?
Technically, it could still be that Satan somehow has confidence that he can make Rin follow his order (after Rin’s body is able to endure the flame), which means Rin will be Satan’s walking weapon, so it’s like he has Rin’s body. Though this explanation is still weird.

Though of course if Yukio gets stronger, he runs the risk of the same thing. Seems vaguely anime-first-season bound where Yukio gets possessed by Satan. I didn't watch the anime, but saw the thread about all the similarities. I know they are very different, but so far the overall big events seem the same..opening gate....Yukio's face-heel-turn...Satan possessing an Okumura..it's making me think Katou did indeed give them like a few-lines summary or something of the overall direction the manga will take. What do you anime-watchers think?
No they are totally different. In the anime it just seems they assume the twin both naturally have strong enough body to endure Satan’s possession, and Satan just has the chance to possess Yukio when Yukio is in shock seeing grandpa dies.

People keep comparing current manga to that awful anime ending … I think I should clarify … In the anime, almost everyone became kind of crazy (perhaps except Yukio because he just became stupid), but it would take too long so I’ll just state the demon Yukio part. After the trial Yukio suddenly has some kind of … demon skin disease I guess. Turns out it’s because he also inherit Satan’s gene. Then when the artificial gate opens Yukio simultaneous becomes full demon like Rin (don’t know why) except the tail (don’t know why). Then Satan talking from the artificial gate (don’t know how) and he manage to let Yukio see his story (don’t know how). Turns out Yuri actually love Satan but grandpa is the bad guy who intended to kill Yuri. Yukio (in demon form) is mad at grandpa and request an explanation. But grandpa accidentally died and Yukio is in shock so mentally weak so Satan successfully possessed Yukio. Then demon Yukio becomes Satan-possessed Yukio. Finally Rin yelled at Yukio and Yukio get rid of Satan, returns back to demon Yukio.

IMO the only inevitable "redemption" needed is Yukio changes his recent opinion about Shiro (probably also the Order), and fight for human again.

I made this experiment: I took the whole BTS arc (and aren't we gonna mention we're STILL in it? (chapter 97: beyond the snow part 6 (crap, this thing's getting really long))) and read it all at once.
It's long for the same chapter title, but not really long for an arc

the Yukio after chapter 93 and the Yukio before chapter 93 are on two different levels. But my point is: the "slightly insane/numb" Yukio, despite everything, in chapter 93 kinda proved he still retained some "sanity/emotions" inside of him. After chapter 93, it'd look like he upgraded to a completely "insane/numb" state after all the shet that happens afterwards. But in chapter 97 I got some doubts.

In chapter 93 Yukio wonders "What is good and what is evil?" during his "raging/emotional rampage". And, finally, in chapter 97 he recognizes and defines Lucifer/Illuminati/their cause and he himself as EVIL. That's proof, to me, he's STILL sane, deep inside, or even just "rational" enough, despite everything. I see it as a sign of hope. A sign that he's still somehow on the same "level" of before chapter 93 even if it got "worse", on the other hand.

And if he really is, it makes me hope that another big/terrible/devastating revelation could still work on him as S13's did. What I mean is that I think that as long as he retains even a lil bit of emotions (even if he doesn' show them/he's not even aware of feeling them) there could be hope that by "provoking" them he could "snap" out of his "insane/numb" state again.
I don't get it. Seems like Yukio didn't really shoot Mephisto, so do you really think Yukio's behavior in chapter 94 (with Mephisto) is more severe then his behavior in chapter 91 (with Bon) ?

I think until now everything he has done is still very logical, so he doesn't seem ever reach so-called "insane" state. Though his emotion and priority changed a lot in this arc.

Of cause he always has emotion, like his extreme rage at Mephisto. The problem is his lack of emotion about Rin.

I don't think he was wondering who is evil in chapter 93. It's quite clear there he thought the Order is actually no less evil than the Illuminati.

(which reminds me of episode 24 of the anime with Rin saying "Yukio is still in there somewhere and if we keep calling him, he'll snap out of it.")
(That's actually a point why I think that anime ending is awful. In the manga no one successfully done anything by multiple emotionally calling. Or no one ever considered that's a reasonable method)

if Yukio recognizes himself (alongside Lucifer and his crew) as evil I wonder if he'll be willing to turn into an enemy/killer of humanity, after all, even if it's for his thirst of power. I believed it'd be prepared to do that if it wasn't for the fact he said/recognized he's evil.
Looks like he won’t blindly follow any order. Maybe only do the killing until he get a valid explanation of the action. However, even if he thinks "I’m evil so I can kill" in mind, he might still unable to really do it. We have to wait and see

what Yukio meant is that the most important thing to him is that by the end of the story he'll be the stronger one so it's okay to him if he and Rin happened to meet once in a while and it's not like he wants/would run away if they happened to meet. 'Cause... I want to believe they will meet again sometimes and not in 10 years from now.
IMO there is no evidence that they won’t meet for a long time. (And if you put yourself in the author’s role … you’ll find that chance is surely very low)

I actually predict that Yukio will invite Rin to join the Illuminati soon

On the other hand, originally (last month) I think the difficulty is at Rin. He might hesitate to meet Yukio again for various reasons. But thanks to Satan in this chapter my worry is gone

I wonder if Satan could be asking Yukio's opinion (in a sarcastic tone) about Shiemi's action just because Yukio is her friend/teacher.
It can't be interpreted this way.

That's an action we (readers) would praise her, but why would Satan think it's anything good? He seems agree to leave with Yukio
Not "good", but "interesting".
All right. Maybe it's because Amaimon's words make me thought Satan should be annoyed at Shiemi

But how can Satan know they have any special feeling if he can only spy them without reading Yukio's mind? It seems like Yukio has been acting perfectly to stay in that teacher/student relationship
Everyone can tell.
Satan can’t see Yukio’s expression. If he only hears what Yukio says and sees Shiemi’s expression, I don’t feel it’s that evident. (In addition it’s possible Satan doesn’t know what is "love")

I really haven't seen anything that is considered truly sinister (I mean, he's not totally at the level of Kylo Ren yet!)
Make me wonder, do you guys think he has any chance to redeem in Ep9? If he can then I don’t see why Yukio can't

Satan is like, well, anything certain to bring hellish times. War, pain, angst, hate, fear, darkness... never truly happy things
Satan himself is happy

the laser effect can only activate (like with Satan's voice) if the danger is actually seen? Silly question, but I had to wonder! 
Yes, I do believe there’s evidence that Satan can’t freely control Yukio’s eye either

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #93 on: January 06, 2018, 05:03:34 PM »
In the anime, almost everyone became kind of crazy (perhaps except Yukio because he just became stupid),

Oh, my, this made me laugh so hard ('cause it's so true). Oh, about Yukio's tail, maybe it couldn't make it past Yukio's long coat? Or this is the headcanon I have.

It's long for the same chapter title, but not really long for an arc

Yeah, I know. As you said, I meant the title. And I wonder if the arc will be over now that Yukio joined the Illuminati or if it will continue (always the title) until Yukio will get answers from Lucifer, will prolly unlock his infamous potential and will turn into... something (which would complete the "beyond the snow/beyond Yukio" circle (?)).

I don't get it. Seems like Yukio didn't really shoot Mephisto, so do you really think Yukio's behavior in chapter 94 (with Mephisto) is more severe then his behavior in chapter 91 (with Bon)?

I think until now everything he has done is still very logical, so he doesn't seem ever reach so-called "insane" state. Though his emotion and priority changed a lot in this arc.

Um, nope, I don't think Yukio trying to shoot Mephisto is more severe then Yukio threatening Suguro. I said Yukio was giving signs of a "dark change" before chapter 93 and I mentioned "pointing guns" referring to Suguro's case. What I meant is that while Yukio was doing "crazy" stuff before chapter 93 he was like in an "on/off" phase where he would do things but eventually fade back into his "fake" act.

After chapter 93, he doesn't care anymore about what he does and doesn't bother to put on the "fake" act anymore. I consider it a difference. Or as I called it, an "upgrade" to another level. I used the word "insane" 'cause that's the first word which came into my mind but I didn't mean "insane" as in "doing illogical things". Much like: acting without a care for his actions. Or probably just "numb" but I wanted to use another word. Crap, my grammar is so limited.

IMO there is no evidence that they won’t meet for a long time. (And if you put yourself in the author’s role … you’ll find that chance is surely very low)

[...] He might hesitate to meet Yukio again for various reasons. But thanks to Satan in this chapter my worry is gone

Let me hug you too.

Satan himself is happy

-Satan on the other hand is having a good time

[...]

-*Satan giggle*
Or just: MWA HA HA... HEE HEE HEE...

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #94 on: January 06, 2018, 05:16:27 PM »
But how can Satan know they have any special feeling if he can only spy them without reading Yukio's mind? It seems like Yukio has been acting perfectly to stay in that teacher/student relationship
Everyone can tell.
Satan can’t see Yukio’s expression. If he only hears what Yukio says and sees Shiemi’s expression, I don’t feel it’s that evident. (In addition it’s possible Satan doesn’t know what is "love")
I don't know enough about Satan (what type of person he is or how much he knows) to be able to answer how he can tell Shiemi is someone special for Yukio. But if I had to guess, the safest bet would be that he overheard Yukio's conversations with Rin and Shura where they make it clear he likes her.

Offline SKL

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #95 on: January 06, 2018, 10:42:04 PM »
I'm totally down for a new look for Yukio and a hair-style change. I think he'd look good both ways. Like when his bangs were blown up when the sword broke, he looked really good there. A longer haired Yukio might also be sexy. Wait his hair would be like Rin's then....though like it was said earlier that could be Katou's intent to really put emphasis on and make them look like brothers/twins especially if Yukio doesn't wear his glasses too. It's becoming more important to remember that they are brothers now. Before Yukio could have been Rin's adopted brother for how much it mattered to the plot. Now with the Satan-relatedness, it's a danger to forget they are twin brothers (like True Cross Order kind of did, or didn't put enough caution at least..they'll probably be kicking themselves later for believing Mephisto's words and just relying on basic tests...).
What is the 'emo-cut'? Is it when they have long bangs that only cover one eye? If so, agreed. That would look kind of weird.

Other than that I'm pretty open for whatever new look Yukio gets. I already know he'll look damn good in an Illuminati uniform from edits.

I mean he does talk about tempering Rin's body to perfectly withstand the flames...talks about his promise with Mephisto...and says 'the body will me mine'. That's not directly saying 'I'm totally gonna possess you', but it's damn close. Anyone got an alternate interpretation of this?
Technically, it could still be that Satan somehow has confidence that he can make Rin follow his order (after Rin’s body is able to endure the flame), which means Rin will be Satan’s walking weapon, so it’s like he has Rin’s body. Though this explanation is still weird.

Ah yeah it is still kind of weird. Plus looking back at the raw, I noticed something I didn't before. Satan used the reading 'karada' with the kanji 肉体. That's not the normal reading for it. The kind of umbrella term normally used for body is 'karada' and its kanji is 体. It has a broad meaning. Like using it for how you feel, your health, a corpse, etc..

The normal reading for 肉体 is nikutai, which is a much more specific term, referring to the flesh-body or corporeal meaning.
Kind of like in kokoro (心) vs shinzou (心臓) in Japanese. Kokoro, a broud term, can mean the heart in your mind, your spirit, refer to love, etc. While shinzou refers to strictly the organ in your body.

Anyway, It's a literary tool unique to Japanese where they can put special emphasis on a word by changing the normal reading for it. I'm not good at explaining it and maybe most of you already know.

The fact that the kanji 肉体 is used to refer to Rin's body makes it look like Satan is especially interested in his flesh rather than like 'another body in my army to take over Assiah' or something. So it puts even more evidence Satan wants to use Rin as his vessel............

Quote
No they are totally different. In the anime it just seems they assume the twin both naturally have strong enough body to endure Satan’s possession, and Satan just has the chance to possess Yukio when Yukio is in shock seeing grandpa dies.

People keep comparing current manga to that awful anime ending … I think I should clarify … In the anime, almost everyone became kind of crazy (perhaps except Yukio because he just became stupid), but it would take too long so I’ll just state the demon Yukio part. After the trial Yukio suddenly has some kind of … demon skin disease I guess. Turns out it’s because he also inherit Satan’s gene. Then when the artificial gate opens Yukio simultaneous becomes full demon like Rin (don’t know why) except the tail (don’t know why). Then Satan talking from the artificial gate (don’t know how) and he manage to let Yukio see his story (don’t know how). Turns out Yuri actually love Satan but grandpa is the bad guy who intended to kill Yuri. Yukio (in demon form) is mad at grandpa and request an explanation. But grandpa accidentally died and Yukio is in shock so mentally weak so Satan successfully possessed Yukio. Then demon Yukio becomes Satan-possessed Yukio. Finally Rin yelled at Yukio and Yukio get rid of Satan, returns back to demon Yukio.
Wow thank you. That cleared a lot up. Seems like the anime had a huge flaw of not explaining the mechanics of how things happen. And how did everyone become crazy? lol I know I should just give in and watch it, but I like reading other people's take on it.

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2018, 05:56:25 AM »
What is the 'emo-cut'? Is it when they have long bangs that only cover one eye? If so, agreed. That would look kind of weird.
Yeah, that's the one.

I have nothing against that haircut. For example, Sanji from One Piece has it and I don't care nor mind in anyway way, shape, or form. But it's probably because I was born in the early 90s. Somewhere in the 2000s that haircut got associated with the "emo" trend and the stereotype of angsty teenagers who self-pity, self-harm, and often contemplate or attempt suicide. So giving Yukio that haircut would just look like a bad joke. Like how back then people would draw or photoshop that haircut on characters that acts "emo" to make the statement that they are. Though I wonder, are people still doing that? And still calling these characters "emo"? Or did it died out. I haven't been paying much attention.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 06:00:48 AM by chinonamida »

Offline Wikkelsoee

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #97 on: January 07, 2018, 10:25:39 AM »
^ I think they do but it's not seen as often as before, since the whole emo/scene culture isn't really "in" anymore. I'm pretty sure an emo would still be drawn with that haircut, though. (I just realised the hair colour makes a really big difference. If Sanji's hair was black he'd look kind of emo too)

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #98 on: January 07, 2018, 04:13:32 PM »
^Yeah, darker hair does help, but there's also a lot of lighter haired ones. I guess it's an accumulation of factors: if you have the haircut, black hair, black eyeliner, black nail polish, piercings, and the angsty attitude, then you're on business.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 04:15:24 PM by chinonamida »

Offline tandem

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #99 on: January 08, 2018, 10:59:52 AM »
^That hair style isn't too rare in anime, right? Like Izuru Kira of Bleach or Ino Yamanaka of Naruto. Maybe it doesn't have special meaning in Japan fandom.

I don't imagine anyone has the balls to object against Satan
So that’s why Satan emphasize she’s a female ...


When I say "close" I literally mean they live together, Rin cook for Yukio and ask him when he will be home, or Yukio give Rin medicine when he is injured and reminds him about the hanging execution or not to rely on the flame too much.

One of the possible ending I imagine is that even after Yukio is back to the human side and both of them are exorcists and hence colleague, they avoid to meet each other and only communicate politely through their common friends (I mean the exwires) when necessary. I won't regard that as "closer" than they were. (Though that's still a happy end in my standard)


I don’t think that’ll be true. I know everyone pushes certain things away, considering them not canon. I think of Kato-sama like Rowling. Nothing happens in her universe without her approval. I believe I’ve seen somewhere—I don’t remember where, that she considers “Salaryman Yukio” to be a parallel universe, thus making that one not canon. The ending of the anime conveys that they will connect in a way that their powers will work together, for that I believe they will have to be close.
But I have an opposite opinion about which way is "positive" or "optimistic"

Let me put it this way : Isn't it miserable to put two people together if they can't get along with each other? What's the point to force them create a tight bond together?

IMO the only inevitable "redemption" needed is Yukio changes his recent opinion about Shiro (probably also the Order), and fight for human again. Then he might help Rin fighting, but he doesn't need to "be close" with Rin. Kato can definitely control everything in this universe but maybe she doesn't think the twins must form a tight bond together. It can be similar to the Rin-Arthur relationship at anime ending. (Though Anime!Arthur is unnecessary awful ...)

But he still didn't cut off Rin's foot like in the manga.
Then he blindly attacked the exwires and Shura, which is worse in my opinion

we don't know how she'll twist the truth in this case. I really don't think it'll be love story Yuritan--Satri--Sayu--Yutan--whatever...at least I hope not.
Maybe Yuri was deceived. After their children displayed blue flame she finally realized he’s a demon god.

I wonder why people are hoping for a complete disconnect between Yukio and Rin. I'm not excluding it, but I don't think that's what she intends for the twins.
I don’t hope they disconnect. That’s just one of the possible end. What I mean is it’s not really a requirement for two people to stay close. Many real-life brothers don’t like each other very much. I will appreciate if at the end Kato somehow make they get along well

They needed to separate. Otherwise, they would run at each other in a constant loop. I'm better than you. I will surpass you. Let neither of us talk about the real issues. You can rely on me. Yeah, right. Why aren't you driven as I am? Why aren't you seeing my struggle? Over and over. I've been wondering if we will see a personality shift in Rin too and for him to rediscover himself to define his purpose as well.

I feel a Naruto/Sasuke relationship vibe going on here.....maybe in 700 chapters they will be besties forever lol
At the end, are Naruto and Sasuke really close friends? I wonder

It could a quick way to let them start a "rescue Yukio" mission. If they just start rescue right after Yukio's reveal, it would be too unrealistic like everyone is a saint, but now they have the information that Satan is between all these, so that will be enough reason. Since it doesn't seem like Yukio is completely forced to do so, they will know they have to be careful.

So maybe Rin will still be somewhat mad at Yukio the next time they meet, but it will be in a cool down state due to the complex situation.

For as much as I'd like the idea of Rin and co. going for another "rescue Yukio" mission, since the first attempt failed miserably and since Yukio made it plain clear he doesn't need help/can't stand to be rescued I kinda doubt this could happen again.
Just list a possible direction. Agree that’s not really the most probable one. But if she intends to develop the story like that I bet Satan will be the major reason for them to take action. Not only Rin, we also have Bon and Koneko who do have reasons to find Satan.

And I don’t really think Yukio has made it clear to them. It’s only clear to us.

I don't get it. Seems like Yukio didn't really shoot Mephisto, so do you really think Yukio's behavior in chapter 94 (with Mephisto) is more severe then his behavior in chapter 91 (with Bon)?

I think until now everything he has done is still very logical, so he doesn't seem ever reach so-called "insane" state. Though his emotion and priority changed a lot in this arc.

Um, nope, I don't think Yukio trying to shoot Mephisto is more severe then Yukio threatening Suguro. I said Yukio was giving signs of a "dark change" before chapter 93 and I mentioned "pointing guns" referring to Suguro's case. What I meant is that while Yukio was doing "crazy" stuff before chapter 93 he was like in an "on/off" phase where he would do things but eventually fade back into his "fake" act.

After chapter 93, he doesn't care anymore about what he does and doesn't bother to put on the "fake" act anymore. I consider it a difference. Or as I called it, an "upgrade" to another level. I used the word "insane" 'cause that's the first word which came into my mind but I didn't mean "insane" as in "doing illogical things". Much like: acting without a care for his actions.
Well, then I think Yukio doesn’t change much in this chapter. You would expect if Yukio wants to choose a safer way he can still put the fake smile before Lucifer and patiently listen to that world peace plan despite he doesn’t believe it at all. But Yukio does continue his "let’s not fake about anything" attitude, acting without a care for his actions.

Quote
No they are totally different. In the anime it just seems they assume the twin both naturally have strong enough body to endure Satan’s possession, and Satan just has the chance to possess Yukio when Yukio is in shock seeing grandpa dies.

People keep comparing current manga to that awful anime ending … I think I should clarify … In the anime, almost everyone became kind of crazy (perhaps except Yukio because he just became stupid), but it would take too long so I’ll just state the demon Yukio part. After the trial Yukio suddenly has some kind of … demon skin disease I guess. Turns out it’s because he also inherit Satan’s gene. Then when the artificial gate opens Yukio simultaneous becomes full demon like Rin (don’t know why) except the tail (don’t know why). Then Satan talking from the artificial gate (don’t know how) and he manage to let Yukio see his story (don’t know how). Turns out Yuri actually love Satan but grandpa is the bad guy who intended to kill Yuri. Yukio (in demon form) is mad at grandpa and request an explanation. But grandpa accidentally died and Yukio is in shock so mentally weak so Satan successfully possessed Yukio. Then demon Yukio becomes Satan-possessed Yukio. Finally Rin yelled at Yukio and Yukio get rid of Satan, returns back to demon Yukio.
Wow thank you. That cleared a lot up. Seems like the anime had a huge flaw of not explaining the mechanics of how things happen. And how did everyone become crazy?
I can do that when I have more time. You can reference NeeNee’s summary of Ep20 about the crazy Anime!Rin

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #100 on: January 08, 2018, 11:03:40 AM »
Moving on to another matter. I can't remember right now, but was it ever revealed/actually explained what was the profit the Illuminati were hoping to get by having Izumo/her mother successfully being possessed by the Nine Tails? To gain more data for the elixir experiments? Or they were kinda trying to test how a vessel (powered up by an elixir) would endure a possession by an high-level demon?

This aside, considering the foreshadows and the couple hints from Kato-sama's artworks:



and the fact that Shima teased Izumo (here in chapter 97) about not being too harsh to him after he leaves do you think there's a chance Izumo's gonna get a "revamp" on her character development (similar to Suguro after the IK arc)?

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #101 on: January 08, 2018, 11:20:14 AM »
^That hair style isn't too rare in anime, right? Like Izuru Kira of Bleach or Ino Yamanaka of Naruto. Maybe it doesn't have special meaning in Japan fandom.
The emo trend is mostly unknown in japan, as far as I know. So the haircut is not associated with it.

Though I've seen some people say it's the 鬼太郎の髪型 Kitaro's haircut (from GeGeGe no Kitaro).

I can't remember right now, but was it ever revealed/actually explained what was the profit the Illuminati were hoping to get by having Izumo/her mother successfully being possessed by the Nine Tails? To gain more data for the elixir experiments? Or they were kinda trying to test how a vessel (powered up by an elixir) would endure a possession by an high-level demon?
No. It wasn't very clear, but they said the nine tail was "material" for the elixir. What "material" means and how it's used to make elixir is still a mystery though.

do you think there's a chance Izumo's gonna get a "revamp" on her character development (similar to Suguro after the IK arc)?
I hope so. Sincerely.

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #102 on: January 08, 2018, 01:44:03 PM »
Just list a possible direction. Agree that’s not really the most probable one. But if she intends to develop the story like that I bet Satan will be the major reason for them to take action. Not only Rin, we also have Bon and Koneko who do have reasons to find Satan.

I would list some if I had any idea. But, honestly, I'm at a complete loss this time. I thought of a scenario where the twins happen to meet once in a while and Rin (who'll get some kinda "dark/mature" development by then) and Yukio will develop something like a "cold" dynamic. But not 'cause Rin'd given up on Yukio or wouldn't be willing to try to save him anymore. He still will.

Yukio's words in chapter 97, "You're kind, I guess that's your limit" made me think if Rin "got the message" he may try to change his approach to Yukio and... "go on the offensive"? Let's say I expect more "balance" in their future confrontations so I pictured a Rin retorting to anything Yukio'd say in a "calm", even slightly "sarcastic" tone, and not in an "aggressive" one like usual. But I'm aware this'd be 100% ooc of Rin, so this is just my personal "fantasy" and not exactly something I hope to see in the manga. Not that I'd mind, oc.

Um, nope, I don't think Yukio trying to shoot Mephisto is more severe then Yukio threatening Suguro. I said Yukio was giving signs of a "dark change" before chapter 93 and I mentioned "pointing guns" referring to Suguro's case. What I meant is that while Yukio was doing "crazy" stuff before chapter 93 he was like in an "on/off" phase where he would do things but eventually fade back into his "fake" act.

After chapter 93, he doesn't care anymore about what he does and doesn't bother to put on the "fake" act anymore. I consider it a difference. Or as I called it, an "upgrade" to another level. I used the word "insane" 'cause that's the first word which came into my mind but I didn't mean "insane" as in "doing illogical things". Much like: acting without a care for his actions.
Well, then I think Yukio doesn’t change much in this chapter. You would expect if Yukio wants to choose a safer way he can still put the fake smile before Lucifer and patiently listen to that world peace plan despite he doesn’t believe it at all. But Yukio does continue his "let’s not fake about anything" attitude, acting without a care for his actions.

Exactly. That's why I specified Yukio "upgraded" to another level (the "let's not fake about anything" as you said) from chapter 93 onwards, which includes chapter 97 too. And I guess he's gonna keep it up until he "upgrades" to an even "higher" level (if that's possible) or until he's gonna "snap out of it" if there's the chance he's not really acting like himself after all. Which is low to non-existent, I know, but.

Edit:

Quote
You would expect if Yukio wants to choose a safer way he can still put the fake smile before Lucifer and patiently listen to that world peace plan despite he doesn’t believe it at all.

I couldn't resist.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 02:07:52 PM by Cloelia »

Offline earthforge

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #103 on: January 08, 2018, 05:29:27 PM »
Viz is out, comments ahoy!

  • Hey, so Satan does acknowledge the twins as siblings, if only in the 'shut up you two or I'll turn this car around and we won't go to Disneyland" way.
  • I prefer facets' summary of the Satan-Yukio-Rin conversation. I feel like Viz removed some details, like how Satan's deal was with Samael, or having Rin go "how?" and Yukio go "I don't know, anyway I'm going" instead of Rin go "wtf?" and Yukio go "yeah I know, that's why I'm going".
  • Likewise, they nerfed Shiemi's line from "Yuki-chan, you are not allowed to go!" to "don't go, Yuki-chan!"
  • "Get up Shima and take me with you!"
    ...
    *doubles over laughing with a mental image of Shima carrying Yukio bridal-style on the helicopter*
  • Viz translated the "I might die too" as "yeah, they might kill me too". Is that a valid read? Because I was under the impression that Yukio's telling Rin something more like "I might die [like you]", which segues into the "in the one-in-a-million chance we both survive this, I'll be stronger than you".
  • "Okumura, are you all right?!" GEE I DUNNO BON, WITH HIS BROTHER BETRAYING HIM AND HIS BIO FATHER SHOWING UP TO LAUGH AND BREAK THE SWORD YOU KNOW IS "VITAL" TO HIM, I'M SURE RIN IS FEELING JUST PEACHY.
  • "This really is a blast!" *Rin's demon heart flames out of his chest* Viz, we need to have a talk about your puns.
  • "I wonder if Okumura's okay" Renzou, you are not allowed to wonder that, not after what you did. Go to the corner.
  • Alright, credit where credit's due. Viz's trans of Shima works well IMO. "Teach, that was pretty nasty. If you go that far, there's no going back, you know? Right now I bet you're totally... *looks at Yukio* ... not filled with regret."
  • Followed by "to be honest, teach dug his own grave!"
  • my headcanon is finally realized! Shima's nickname for Yukio is "teach" now that Yukio has joined the Illuminati! tremble in fear at my fanfic prediction powers!
  • Nothing will make me giggle more than Yukio's "... Tou... dou?" reaction to Homare. It's like, oh fuck there are more of you?!
  • "Gunnar"? I thought those guys were called Lund and Strom? Ah jeez, I give up.
  • Lol. "The commander is in poor health so do not upset him." Yukio's all like, bitch I might.
  • Aww, they made Yukio's little speech less aggressive. Sad face. I reaaaally don't like having the last line be "I must have it", since Jeff Bezos and his breakfast octopus ruined that phrase for me.
"There are no answers. Only choices."

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #104 on: January 08, 2018, 05:59:38 PM »
Hahah, earthy, you got almost my same reactions! I was about to type more than half you already commented!

To add a couple personal impressions (aside the fact I'm totally disappointed by Viz, this time ("...then I'll be stronger than my brother"?!?!? For fk sake, he's talking to Rin! Why the 3rd person dialogue choice?). Even the regular speeches font they chose for Satan... What happened? It looks like they did this translation in a rush and they had 4 days! Something sounds off on almost every page. *sighs*

So, the only one I liked in here is Shima. That part you mentioned in particular makes it sound like... he ACTUALLY worries about Rin? Are you kidding me? And how come he now gives two shets about how what happened is gonna affect the brothers' relationship? Isn't it a lil late to worry about that? You never did it before, you JERK (I'm gonna quote Izumo (seriously, this poor girl got to use only this line in these last two chapters))! I also liked the "NEXT TIME we meet..." Oh, good, if he's so certain he's gonna run into the exwires again, then why not Yukio too? *my hopes reach sky limits*

And, I dunno, staring harder at all Shima's expressions (especially his smiles) makes me wonder if he's kinda trying to "reassure" everyone it's not all exactly as it looks like. Like, some sort of sign of agreement (is that how is called?), like "Don't worry, it's all under control!" ('cause, you know, Lightning's STILL involved in this, right?... right?!) And, btw, didn't he bid goodbye to Suguro and Konekomaru the previous chapter? So I guess he meant it as: "I'm not gonna be on your side (the Order's) anymore, but we'll still happen to meet. We'll just be enemies."

Yukio knows the Dominus Liminis? So is its existence common knowledge or something?

Now that I think about it... Phosphorus? You mean, as in Rin's meaning of his name? Is that a coincidence or there's something behind it?

Homare: "Do not upset the commander." Yukio: "Oh, no worries, I'm gonna try my best to upset him as much as possible... and more."

Yukio tries to act politely for a... full 3 milliseconds? How kind of him, I wasn't expecting that much.

Now, goddamit. I'm getting confused here. "You are the world's hope for true peace." Why does it sound like Yukio could be a "vital" part in Lucifer's plan if he didn't even know about his eyes (or anything special about Yukio in general) up to a few months ago? I guess Lucifer was planning something for years (centuries). Now, how come all of a sudden Yukio is THAT important to reach his objective? Or so it sounds, at least.