Author Topic: Chapter 97 RAW  (Read 27233 times)

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #75 on: January 05, 2018, 11:19:51 PM »
Yukio might not need glasses anymore (for various reasons). But, if he's still gonna need them, well, he can't exactly "access" to his old "spares collection" in his dorm's room anymore, now can he?
Why do I get an image of Saburota helpfully offering his glasses frames and Yukio punching him in the face. (Given how Yukio already strolled in and was like "Lucifer, you're full of shit", I am near 100% sure that the next time Yukio runs into Saburota, things will get violent fast.)
Glasses-less Yukio enters Homare's office and punches through the life-size portrait of Saburota she has on her wall.
... is what just went through my head...

And about Yukio's appearance: As long as he won't get emo hair (like covering his bad eye, lots of spikes) I'm in for almost everything.
Anything but emo hair. It would be like Spiderman 3 all over again.

I always considered Rin's hair to have a "emo" style
No way. An emo hair style is when it covers only one eye.

So I believe (and I hope) Yukio won't get THAT kinda emo cut. Well, without glasses on and with slightly longer hair, the only way we could tell the twins apart left would be Yukio's moles... WAIT, what if this is the reason Kato-sama gave him moles in the first place?!
That reminds me that fight scene in Devil May Cry where Dante fights against Vergil in the rain.
At half life the weather defeats his hairdo, and you realize they look alike more than you initially thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQeRRZv8YcM

^ Why do I feel like Satan could take on Shura's "let's-relentlessly-tease-this-kiddo" role from now on? (if he'll keep talking and won't turn into "silent mode" again (which I doubt, since Lucifer is THAT happy Yukio "brought" Father to him)
That could be interesting. Thought I'd take any type of interaction, really. I've wanted to see more of Satan for a long time.

I'm happy to hear from someone who is pissed with Yukio. He's fun to hate. Plus, I think Karen likes to troll us.  ;D
You think? I've given up on talking with Karen a long time ago.

I also have the tiny feeling this lil panel here could be the key to interpret Rin's feelings toward Yukio's declaration before he leaves and his leaving in general. But I got more than one interpretation to it:

All I can see is mostly pain. The text is also only his raspy breathing.

Moral: what do you think about Rin's possible "mood" toward Yukio once he'll be feeling better after what happened in this chapter?
I think it didn't change much from what it was in recent chapters. He wants to help him, even if that means being rough with him. He's not really mad, this just looks like tough love to me.

I don't think they were close before.
Yukio and Rin have never been THAT close to begin with
Many people say that. But I think people can be close even if they don't get along and even if they're not on good terms. And I think some of you might be mixing these up.
I had many sorts of relationships in my life, and I've come to the understanding that no matter how good or bad a relationship can be at any given time, the feeling of being close or not to someone is something that only steadily increase and never decreases. Even if the situation change, or even if the other person change, the more you interact with them, the more you feel like they're part of your life and, sometimes, the more you feel responsible for what happens to them.

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #76 on: January 06, 2018, 12:58:11 AM »
I don't think they were close before.
Yukio and Rin have never been THAT close to begin with
Many people say that. But I think people can be close even if they don't get along and even if they're not on good terms. And I think some of you might be mixing these up.
I had many sorts of relationships in my life, and I've come to the understanding that no matter how good or bad a relationship can be at any given time, the feeling of being close or not to someone is something that only steadily increase and never decreases. Even if the situation change, or even if the other person change, the more you interact with them, the more you feel like they're part of your life and, sometimes, the more you feel responsible for what happens to them.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that. I used to be close to my brother, but now he’s dead to me. I don’t feel responsible at all for the direction he turned his life to, but I do feel sorry for his son because he has that burden. Nothing further. So just because you’re close at one point doesn’t mean you’ll stay close even though you interact on a daily basis.

But for Yukio and Rin, their relationship is the focus of the manga. Not just one character or the other. Some feel Rin is THE blue exorcist because he bears the blue flames while Yukio is just a supporting character—because it’s Rin’s thing and it’ll cheapen it if Yukio has it too. ::) I feel they are both equally important and both are intended to be the blue exorcists. If Rin just gives up on Yukio or Yukio just becomes the irredeemable villain then there is really no point to the rest of the story.

Offline Karen

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #77 on: January 06, 2018, 01:23:06 AM »
Quote
Wow. Someone really hates Yukio, and nothing we say will convince you otherwise. It is a common anime trope to explore the fall of humanity and its redemption, and I see no different with Yukio. But sorry you have given up on him that you can’t be flexible.

I guess I'm not that flexible and have pretty high standards, true. To me, a character like Alphonse Elric meets those standards, especially for familial love. Yukio doesn't. If Rin, Yukio and Shiemi were more like Ed, Al and Winry than I might feel differently. Right now, after 97 chapters, I just don't see anything redeemable or worth saving in Yukio, or anything about the twins relationship worth reconciling. Rin and the others are absolute saints if they can though. I'll give them that.

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #78 on: January 06, 2018, 01:24:15 AM »
I used to be close to my brother, but now he’s dead to me.
Maybe you are on bad terms, but if you crossed path one day, would you recognize him as your brother or would you really treat him as a stranger. It takes a lot of efforts to try and do the latter, because it's unnatural. The more you get involved with someone, the more you feel close to them. And the past can't be erased. That's all I'm saying.

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #79 on: January 06, 2018, 01:32:41 AM »
I used to be close to my brother, but now he’s dead to me.
Maybe you are on bad terms, but if you crossed path one day, would you recognize him as your brother or would you really treat him as a stranger. It takes a lot of efforts to try and do the latter, because it's unnatural. The more you get involved with someone, the more you feel close to them. And the past can't be erased. That's all I'm saying.

We do encounter each other some time, and I treat him like I would a customer at work. Fake niceties, and then please go away. I understand what you’re saying, but there are things in this world that can’t be forgiven. While it seems the same is running for Yukio, I can only hope they can forgive each other.

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #80 on: January 06, 2018, 02:08:25 AM »
I think Rin and Yukio will work things out and build a relationship stronger than it has ever been. Even if they never completely get along or never completely get on good terms. Katou usually writes happy endings, I doubt she'll write a completely tragic ending for her biggest story yet.

EDIT: Karen keeps talking about the Elric Brothers, but if I had to compare Rin and Yukio to a brother duo that works, I would compare them to Sam and Dean from Supernatural. They really don't get along, but they keep working things out.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 02:22:12 AM by chinonamida »

Offline BrilliantAkane

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #81 on: January 06, 2018, 03:26:46 AM »
I have no doubt that Rin and Yukio will build an even stronger bond when all is said and done. I most curious how Rin's body will handle his enhanced powers now that his sword is broken. At the moment it doesn't seem like his body can handle it, but I feel like he has to eventually otherwise he's not much different from Mephisto and the other Demon Kings.

Offline Karen

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #82 on: January 06, 2018, 03:53:00 AM »
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I think Rin and Yukio will work things out and build a relationship stronger than it has ever been. Even if they never completely get along or never completely get on good terms.

One can always hope, but I can't see it happening now. And how is never completely getting along or never being on good terms a loving, close, strong relationship?

Quote
EDIT: Karen keeps talking about the Elric Brothers, but if I had to compare Rin and Yukio to a brother duo that works, I would compare them to Sam and Dean from Supernatural. They really don't get along, but they keep working things out.

Have to disagree there. The situations may be similar, but it's clear Dean and Sam have always loved each other as family (and know each other better than anyone) to the point of codependency and where they'd put the whole world in danger because they can't let eachother go. I can't see where Yukio ever really loved Rin; to my mind he was always too jealous and hateful and power hungry. Can you say Scar? And the twins never really knew each other for all those years.

Offline tandem

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #83 on: January 06, 2018, 04:10:43 AM »
But could it be like Satan means something like "Don't you think (your friend/student) is an amusing girl?"
Then he would have said "友だち" for "friend" or "学生" for "student".

"面白い友だちがいるな" "That's an interesting friend you've got there."
"面白い学生がいるな" "That's an interesting student you've got there."
"その友だちは面白い女だな" "Your friend is an amusing girl, hun?"
"その友だちは面白い女だと思わないか" "Don't you think your friend is an amusing girl?"
Oh, I didn't mean Satan exactly said something like friend/student. I just saw your translation  "(You) have an interesting woman" / "This is an interesting woman (you)'ve got there." , and then I wonder if Satan could be asking Yukio's opinion (in a sarcastic tone) about Shiemi's action just because Yukio is her friend/teacher.

My problem is I don't see anything in Shiemi that Satan would find interesting to compliment her... and I feel Yukio's reaction is like he doesn't want Satan to notice Shiemi in any way
She told him not to leave "雪ちゃん... 行っちゃダメだよ...!!" i.e. "行ってしまうのはだめですよ" = "It is not-good/unacceptable for you to end up leaving".
And she sent her greenman tie him up.
That's an action we (readers) would praise her, but why would Satan think it's anything good? He seems agree to leave with Yukio

probably the realization of "I do NOT want her to get wrapped up in this mess".
agree

Makes his comments about Shiemi even more unsettling because Satan would've had the front row seat to their relationship disintegrating.
But how can Satan know they have any special feeling if he can only spy them without reading Yukio's mind? It seems like Yukio has been acting perfectly to stay in that teacher/student relationship

That'd be like letting the current him win, since he doesn't fear death. He actively welcomes it. If he dies, it'll mean that he has succeeded in running away from his life and problems for good.
absolutely agree. I'm pretty sure Kato would not let Yukio fulfill his wish as the real punishment

I said he doesn't feel love, not that it isn't in him. It's buried deep, along with the tears and grief he's separated from himself for so long that he can't even feel anymore.
Well, I think Yukio definitely loved Shiro and Shiemi. The only problem is always his relationship with Rin

Yukio has never cried in the story so far despite everything. Katou's been saving that for something big.
absolutely agree.

Or it was also in the funeral scene in chapter 1 when Yukio just walked away.

My opinion about this part is that Yukio might have walked away 'cause he knew Mephisto was about to show up and he didn't want to "make it clear" they had a connection just yet (or didn't want to hear what those two could've talked about/was ordered to stay away).
But Mephisto was about to kill Rin! He only let Rin join True Cross School after Rin declared he intends to beat Satan. Or you can assume before the funeral Mephisto has promised Yukio that they won't harm Rin, but we are not confirmed yet.

He can just go and die himself. Rin would be better off
But we are pretty sure Rin would be in deep pain if Yukio dies

Sorry, I'm not optimistic. I think it's way way too late for that kind of positive development now. As I said before, I doubt it could ever be believable and not look like it was pulled out of thin air.
When I say "close" I literally mean they live together, Rin cook for Yukio and ask him when he will be home, or Yukio give Rin medicine when he is injured and reminds him about the hanging execution or not to rely on the flame too much.

One of the possible ending I imagine is that even after Yukio is back to the human side and both of them are exorcists and hence colleague, they avoid to meet each other and only communicate politely through their common friends (I mean the exwires) when necessary. I won't regard that as "closer" than they were. (Though that's still a happy end in my standard)


I don’t think that’ll be true. I know everyone pushes certain things away, considering them not canon. I think of Kato-sama like Rowling. Nothing happens in her universe without her approval. I believe I’ve seen somewhere—I don’t remember where, that she considers “Salaryman Yukio” to be a parallel universe, thus making that one not canon. The ending of the anime conveys that they will connect in a way that their powers will work together, for that I believe they will have to be close.
But I have an opposite opinion about which way is "positive" or "optimistic"

Let me put it this way : Isn't it miserable to put two people together if they can't get along with each other? What's the point to force them create a tight bond together?

IMO the only inevitable "redemption" needed is Yukio changes his recent opinion about Shiro (probably also the Order), and fight for human again. Then he might help Rin fighting, but he doesn't need to "be close" with Rin. Kato can definitely control everything in this universe but maybe she doesn't think the twins must form a tight bond together. It can be similar to the Rin-Arthur relationship at anime ending. (Though Anime!Arthur is unnecessary awful ...)


this. /shrug

This Yukio card has a demon motif going on. This is still an exorcist card, but it has the coloring of the major opponents ......so I wonder where that one is going.
I think it corresponds to Yukio joins Illuminati?

Let's say Rin didn't have time to actually process what he just did and/or comment it (I was expecting something like "Did I just charge Yukio?"/"What did I just do?"/"Was I really trying to kill him?"/"Is Yukio okay?" etc etc) and the first thing he noticed when he lifted his gaze was the half sword at Yukio's feet.
Rin could't understand what just happened at that moment. His initial thought was only to stop Yukio with the sword, and then it seems like Yukio easily block him. (Rin didn't even understand how the sword is broken) You have to wait for the exwires to tell Rin how dangerous the situation really was.

raise my hopes Rin, at least so it seems or I like to believe, already got over his rage status toward Yukio. Be it 'cause discovering about Satan being somehow connected to Yukio made him believe there's prolly more behind Yukio's behaviour after all or any other reason, I don't particularly care.

I kinda don't like the feeling I get from Rin being unable to add anything else 'cause of the growing pain. It kinda leaves the situation a lil "ambiguous" imo. I mean, Rin does try to call Yukio a couple times (it's all he can manage to say) but, even if I have the feeling he's not mad at him anymore, I think there's too lil to really tell if he's ACTUALLY not.

I mean, it looks obvious, maybe. But I still don't feel 100% sure about it. If I want to keep thinking positive, well, I think I should focus over the fact Rin looks like he's screaming at Yukio to not go. But I also get the feeling he may be calling him as in: "We're not done talking yet!" and Rin's still angry and... okay, I think I'm exaggerating. *stop stop*
What I think about the first half of this chapter : it pulls Rin back in the middle of absolutely trust Yukio and absolutely hate Yukio. (probably like Shima's case)

What Rin gets : "Yukio becomes an awful person and shoot me."  "Satan suddenly shows up and maybe the source of all this shit"  "But Yukio says they are independently exist?!?!" I think that's confusing enough to pull Rin to a cautions state.

It could a quick way to let them start a "rescue Yukio" mission. If they just start rescue right after Yukio's reveal, it would be too unrealistic like everyone is a saint, but now they have the information that Satan is between all these, so that will be enough reason. Since it doesn't seem like Yukio is completely forced to do so, they will know they have to be careful.

So maybe Rin will still be somewhat mad at Yukio the next time they meet, but it will be in a cool down state due to the complex situation.

And about Yukio's appearance: As long as he won't get emo hair (like covering his bad eye, lots of spikes) I'm in for almost everything.
Anything but emo hair. It would be like Spiderman 3 all over again.

I always considered Rin's hair to have a "emo" style
No way. An emo hair style is when it covers only one eye.
How about super saiyan hair

^ Why do I feel like Satan could take on Shura's "let's-relentlessly-tease-this-kiddo" role from now on? (if he'll keep talking and won't turn into "silent mode" again (which I doubt, since Lucifer is THAT happy Yukio "brought" Father to him)
That could be interesting. Thought I'd take any type of interaction, really. I've wanted to see more of Satan for a long time.
Satan probably can't talk when Yukio covers his left eye
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 04:17:42 AM by tandem »

Offline Taytronics7

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #84 on: January 06, 2018, 04:52:19 AM »
Quote
My problem is I don't see anything in Shiemi that Satan would find interesting to compliment her... and I feel Yukio's reaction is like he doesn't want Satan to notice Shiemi in any way
She told him not to leave "雪ちゃん... 行っちゃダメだよ...!!" i.e. "行ってしまうのはだめですよ" = "It is not-good/unacceptable for you to end up leaving".
And she sent her greenman tie him up.
That's an action we (readers) would praise her, but why would Satan think it's anything good? He seems agree to leave with Yukio

I think Satan says Shiemi is interesting because she had the nerve to try to stop him and Yukio from leaving. I don't imagine anyone has the balls to object against Satan, let alone a young woman like Shiemi, so it's interesting to him. Kinda like with how Amaimon said she was interesting after she pushed him. It could also be foreshadowing that Shiemi isn't human and/or has some exceptional power.

Offline Buttercup

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #85 on: January 06, 2018, 04:54:19 AM »
People keep talking about how "so and so is dead to me". I have an Ex Husband. Havent seen or talked to him in over 10 years. That's what dead to me really is like. If I was to meet up again, it would be very brief. I don't consider what Yukio has done/leaving too extreme to cause a "he is a lost cause" line. If you don't like Yukio we get it.....but really Yukio is a hella lot more interesting than Rin at this point. btw #PRAYFORYUKIO

On another note and Emo hair.....Maybe Lightning keeps his hair in his over his eyes for the same reason. He did show a weird looking eye in a past chapter.....foreshadowing!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 05:00:53 AM by Buttercup »

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #86 on: January 06, 2018, 04:56:26 AM »

When I say "close" I literally mean they live together, Rin cook for Yukio and ask him when he will be home, or Yukio give Rin medicine when he is injured and reminds him about the hanging execution or not to rely on the flame too much.

One of the possible ending I imagine is that even after Yukio is back to the human side and both of them are exorcists and hence colleague, they avoid to meet each other and only communicate politely through their common friends (I mean the exwires) when necessary. I won't regard that as "closer" than they were. (Though that's still a happy end in my standard)


I don’t think that’ll be true. I know everyone pushes certain things away, considering them not canon. I think of Kato-sama like Rowling. Nothing happens in her universe without her approval. I believe I’ve seen somewhere—I don’t remember where, that she considers “Salaryman Yukio” to be a parallel universe, thus making that one not canon. The ending of the anime conveys that they will connect in a way that their powers will work together, for that I believe they will have to be close.
But I have an opposite opinion about which way is "positive" or "optimistic"

Let me put it this way : Isn't it miserable to put two people together if they can't get along with each other? What's the point to force them create a tight bond together?

IMO the only inevitable "redemption" needed is Yukio changes his recent opinion about Shiro (probably also the Order), and fight for human again. Then he might help Rin fighting, but he doesn't need to "be close" with Rin. Kato can definitely control everything in this universe but maybe she doesn't think the twins must form a tight bond together. It can be similar to the Rin-Arthur relationship at anime ending. (Though Anime!Arthur is unnecessary awful ...)

But he still didn't cut off Rin's foot like in the manga. (excluding 2nd season flashbacks)
Shiro--I think we'll uncover more bad stuff, but then I'm sure Yukio will find something that sparks hope in his cynical mind. I am thinking of something he taught to Yukio much like Rin's "use your powers for a better purpose" line. And still, we don't know how she'll twist the truth in this case. I really don't think it'll be love story Yuritan--Satri--Sayu--Yutan--whatever...at least I hope not. I wonder why people are hoping for a complete disconnect between Yukio and Rin. I'm not excluding it, but I don't think that's what she intends for the twins.

Quote
this. /shrug

This Yukio card has a demon motif going on. This is still an exorcist card, but it has the coloring of the major opponents ......so I wonder where that one is going.
I think it corresponds to Yukio joins Illuminati?


Oh, the question there was for Shiemi's card which has her holding a dekalp and in the anime, she has a tribe of greenmen helping her out during the episode with Neuhaus's wife. I'm wondering where she's going with that for Shiemi.

Quote
^ Why do I feel like Satan could take on Shura's "let's-relentlessly-tease-this-kiddo" role from now on? (if he'll keep talking and won't turn into "silent mode" again (which I doubt, since Lucifer is THAT happy Yukio "brought" Father to him)
That could be interesting. Thought I'd take any type of interaction, really. I've wanted to see more of Satan for a long time.
Satan probably can't talk when Yukio covers his left eye

I wonder if that's true.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 04:59:36 AM by Kittykat »

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #87 on: January 06, 2018, 05:07:37 AM »
People keep talking about how "so and so is dead to me". I have an Ex Husband. Havent seen or talked to him in over 10 years. That's what dead to me really is like. If I was to meet up again, it would be very brief. I don't consider what Yukio has done/leaving too extreme to cause a "he is a lost cause" line. If you don't like Yukio we get it.....but really Yukio is a hella lot more interesting than Rin at this point. btw #PRAYFORYUKIO

Unfortunately, I have to see him occasionally because of our father, but that is beside the point. But I agree. Yukio has to go out and search for himself, so this is necessary for his growth. The same for Rin. They needed to separate. Otherwise, they would run at each other in a constant loop. I'm better than you. I will surpass you. Let neither of us talk about the real issues. You can rely on me. Yeah, right. Why aren't you driven as I am? Why aren't you seeing my struggle? Over and over. I've been wondering if we will see a personality shift in Rin too and for him to rediscover himself to define his purpose as well.

Offline Buttercup

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #88 on: January 06, 2018, 05:15:01 AM »
People keep talking about how "so and so is dead to me". I have an Ex Husband. Havent seen or talked to him in over 10 years. That's what dead to me really is like. If I was to meet up again, it would be very brief. I don't consider what Yukio has done/leaving too extreme to cause a "he is a lost cause" line. If you don't like Yukio we get it.....but really Yukio is a hella lot more interesting than Rin at this point. btw #PRAYFORYUKIO

Unfortunately, I have to see him occasionally because of our father, but that is beside the point. But I agree. Yukio has to go out and search for himself, so this is necessary for his growth. The same for Rin. They needed to separate. Otherwise, they would run at each other in a constant loop. I'm better than you. I will surpass you. Let neither of us talk about the real issues. You can rely on me. Yeah, right. Why aren't you driven as I am? Why aren't you seeing my struggle? Over and over. I've been wondering if we will see a personality shift in Rin too and for him to rediscover himself to define his purpose as well.

I feel a Naruto/Sasuke relationship vibe going on here.....maybe in 700 chapters they will be besties forever lol

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Chapter 97 RAW
« Reply #89 on: January 06, 2018, 06:30:32 AM »
I wonder if Satan could be asking Yukio's opinion (in a sarcastic tone) about Shiemi's action just because Yukio is her friend/teacher.
It can't be interpreted this way.

That's an action we (readers) would praise her, but why would Satan think it's anything good? He seems agree to leave with Yukio
Not "good", but "interesting".

But how can Satan know they have any special feeling if he can only spy them without reading Yukio's mind? It seems like Yukio has been acting perfectly to stay in that teacher/student relationship
Everyone can tell.

How about super saiyan hair
I don't mind.

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I think Rin and Yukio will work things out and build a relationship stronger than it has ever been. Even if they never completely get along or never completely get on good terms.

One can always hope, but I can't see it happening now. And how is never completely getting along or never being on good terms a loving, close, strong relationship?

Quote
EDIT: Karen keeps talking about the Elric Brothers, but if I had to compare Rin and Yukio to a brother duo that works, I would compare them to Sam and Dean from Supernatural. They really don't get along, but they keep working things out.

Have to disagree there. The situations may be similar, but it's clear Dean and Sam have always loved each other as family (and know each other better than anyone) to the point of codependency and where they'd put the whole world in danger because they can't let eachother go. I can't see where Yukio ever really loved Rin; to my mind he was always too jealous and hateful and power hungry. Can you say Scar? And the twins never really knew each other for all those years.
Dude, they're always fighting. X(