Poll

After chapter 48, I believe Shima is...

a spy for the Illuminati
35 (60.3%)
working for someone else
14 (24.1%)
possessed/controled by something
5 (8.6%)
neither (please explain)
4 (6.9%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Author Topic: Shima - spy or lie?  (Read 69786 times)

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #240 on: July 06, 2014, 06:09:49 AM »
I can't imagine something like that staying a secret in a close community like the Myou Dha, so either

- Shima's family didn't know, or
- Shima's family did know and they kept it hidden from the other clans on purpose.

If it's the first, I wanna know who trained him. If it's the second, the whole clan is pretty shady (I actually hope this isn't the case. One traitor is bad enough, but a whole family you've been living with..? Poor Bon and Neko).

Offline tardar-sauce

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #241 on: July 06, 2014, 06:24:26 AM »
If Shima's family didn't know, how Renzou Shima himself significant enough to get a familiar like Yamantaka though? And why would he keep it a secret?

Do we know that Bon and Koneko didn't know about it? They could have been convinced Shima wasn't/shouldn't summon it anyway.

Offline Desktop Warrior

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #242 on: July 06, 2014, 06:29:48 AM »
I can't imagine something like that staying a secret in a close community like the Myou Dha, so either

- Shima's family didn't know, or
- Shima's family did know and they kept it hidden from the other clans on purpose.

If it's the first, I wanna know who trained him. If it's the second, the whole clan is pretty shady (I actually hope this isn't the case. One traitor is bad enough, but a whole family you've been living with..? Poor Bon and Neko).

If it's the second one, I wouldn't see the Shimas so much as "traitors," rather than people who made EXTREMELY poor choices in A) trying to control something that can kill you with a brush of its fingers and B) thinking that a little boy should be that something's master, all while comparing him unfavorably to a dead older sibling he never even knew.

The first makes sense, but I'm just wondering how Shima would've been able to sneak off for Yamantaka training in the close-knit community of the Myou Dha. (I don't mean "close-knit" as in "they all got along"; rather, that they all lived under the same household and the kids wouldn't be able to wander off without their parents knowing. At least, that's the impression I get from them.)

If Shima's family didn't know, how Renzou Shima himself significant enough to get a familiar like Yamantaka though? And why would he keep it a secret?

Do we know that Bon and Koneko didn't know about it? They could have been convinced Shima wasn't/shouldn't summon it anyway.
Argh, now I REALLY want the story to progress so we actually learn something about all this.

Offline tardar-sauce

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #243 on: July 06, 2014, 06:34:05 AM »
Shima shouldn't have been able to keep the familiar a secret either way.

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #244 on: July 06, 2014, 07:01:24 AM »
I can't imagine something like that staying a secret in a close community like the Myou Dha, so either

- Shima's family didn't know, or
- Shima's family did know and they kept it hidden from the other clans on purpose.

If it's the first, I wanna know who trained him. If it's the second, the whole clan is pretty shady (I actually hope this isn't the case. One traitor is bad enough, but a whole family you've been living with..? Poor Bon and Neko).

If it's the second one, I wouldn't see the Shimas so much as "traitors," rather than people who made EXTREMELY poor choices in A) trying to control something that can kill you with a brush of its fingers and B) thinking that a little boy should be that something's master, all while comparing him unfavorably to a dead older sibling he never even knew.

To be fair, poor choices are kind of the hallmark of the entire community. -_-

"Dangerous demon that poisoned an entire city? Let's keep him in the cellar for a few hundred years and not tell anyone!"

"Reuniting the pieces of said dangerous demon, that were kept apart for the express purpose of keeping it under control? But of course, teacher! If you tell me my family are a bunch of traitors, it must be true!"

"Giving an incredible powerful, soul-destroying demon to a little kid who hates controlling demons? What could possibly go wrong?"


Seriously, who decided to give them any kind of power in the first place.

Offline tardar-sauce

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #245 on: July 06, 2014, 07:28:33 AM »
To be fair, Mamushi thought they were going to take the eyes...somewhere else that wasn't back into the Impure King.

And with the families being the idiots they are...yeah she was going to trust the teacher over them.

Offline Desktop Warrior

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #246 on: July 06, 2014, 03:22:46 PM »
To be fair, poor choices are kind of the hallmark of the entire community. -_-

"Dangerous demon that poisoned an entire city? Let's keep him in the cellar for a few hundred years and not tell anyone!"

"Reuniting the pieces of said dangerous demon, that were kept apart for the express purpose of keeping it under control? But of course, teacher! If you tell me my family are a bunch of traitors, it must be true!"

"Giving an incredible powerful, soul-destroying demon to a little kid who hates controlling demons? What could possibly go wrong?"


Seriously, who decided to give them any kind of power in the first place.

The Order did, because they're chronically short of Exorcists, and suddenly gaining who knows how many new Exorcists must've seemed like divine providence. They probably reasoned that they could easily bend the Myou Dha to their will, too, given that their leader was a sot who didn't even want to join the Order  and commanded little respect.

To be fair, Mamushi thought they were going to take the eyes...somewhere else that wasn't back into the Impure King.

And with the families being the idiots they are...yeah she was going to trust the teacher over them.

Specifically, Toudou had convinced Mamushi that they were going to take the eyes AWAY from the purview of Mephisto, whom he'd revealed was "raising the son of Satan in secret." So he painted Mephisto as the real villain in all this. To Mamushi, Toudou had always been the kindly old teacher, and she'd probably confided in him a lot during her high school years if she had trouble with her family.

...sorry, I think I kinda derailed us here. This thread is supposed to be about Shima. :'D

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #247 on: July 12, 2014, 04:07:44 AM »
I have the feeling his relationship with the Myodha was a key factor in Shima's betrayal, so discussing their fucked-up parenting style is fair game.

Honestly, I feel sorry for the children. Not just Shima, but also Bon (and Koneko). First they tell you for years that you're important and needed as a leader, and then your father tells you that you should just go do something else? Yeah, that's such a clear message for a kid.

Offline Wikkelsoee

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #248 on: July 12, 2014, 11:47:02 AM »
To be fair, the Myodha didn't know about the Impure King like Tatsuma did. I can see where you're coming from, though. Telling a preschooler that you're the single person keeping their organization together might not be the smartest idea Damnit Juuzou

Offline tardar-sauce

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #249 on: July 13, 2014, 01:38:08 AM »
Well he wouldn't be a Shima if he didn't have fucked up ways of raising and treating children.

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #250 on: July 23, 2014, 09:44:22 AM »
I wonder who raised Koneko. I'm kinda hoping Bon's mother took most of the responsibility.

Speaking of which, where is Shima's mother? We haven't seen her.

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #251 on: July 23, 2014, 03:30:38 PM »
May be died during the Blue Night, maybe she deserted after the Blue Night...

Offline themoonlandian

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #252 on: July 23, 2014, 03:37:31 PM »
We know she's alive - Shima talked to her on the phone. Remember she was more worried about Bon and Koneko than Shima?
She's still in contact, then. Maybe she was just on a mission?
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Offline NeeNee

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #253 on: July 23, 2014, 03:46:54 PM »
It's weird she never showed up or called while her husband was ill (or at least, not that we've seen).

And I'm stil wondering where his sisters went, too.

Offline themoonlandian

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Re: Shima - spy or lie?
« Reply #254 on: July 23, 2014, 03:58:46 PM »
Maybe she did leave then?
Had a divorce or maybe just decided she wanted the kids to be away from all that?
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