Author Topic: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-93)  (Read 7267 times)

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2017, 05:28:56 PM »
Ah yes, that's a lot easier to scroll through.

Though I think "Exorcist exam arc" is a bit misleading of a name, since we still haven't seen any exam yet.

Tbh, it sounded weird to me too. I took those arcs names from a BE wikia. I accept any alternative title suggestion :)

Crazy Yukio Arc?
Wait, no, nevermind. That could be almost any arc. No I don't like him how can you tell

Yukio Awakening Arc? It IS the first time we get confirmation of his powers...

Offline Megamadic

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2017, 05:40:34 PM »
Thank you for putting this together, it's amazing when you actually compile everything together we actually get a lot of information chapter to chapter, it is very rare we get a chapter that doesn't move the plot along in some way.

One thing that always perplexes me is in the very beginning where Mephisto arrives to kill Rin (Ch:1 Pg:62) but is so amused by what Rin says he changes his mind. However later at Mephisto's trial he states it was his plan all along to raise Rin as a weapon for the order. (Ch:14 Pg:31)

I thought maybe he made this up to convince the order not to execute Rin but in Shura's flashback a conversation with Shiro he says the same thing (Ch:10 Pg:25). This was clearly their game plan all along so why threaten to kill him at all?

Was the whole thing to Kill Rin just for show? Or am I thinking too hard about this and Kato just forgot.

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2017, 06:40:16 PM »
Thank you for putting this together, it's amazing when you actually compile everything together we actually get a lot of information chapter to chapter, it is very rare we get a chapter that doesn't move the plot along in some way.

One thing that always perplexes me is in the very beginning where Mephisto arrives to kill Rin (Ch:1 Pg:62) but is so amused by what Rin says he changes his mind. However later at Mephisto's trial he states it was his plan all along to raise Rin as a weapon for the order. (Ch:14 Pg:31)

I thought maybe he made this up to convince the order not to execute Rin but in Shura's flashback a conversation with Shiro he says the same thing (Ch:10 Pg:25). This was clearly their game plan all along so why threaten to kill him at all?

Was the whole thing to Kill Rin just for show? Or am I thinking too hard about this and Kato just forgot.

Manipulation. It gives Rin a no win situation scenario. You've three choices. You can run, but we'll catch you. You can die right here. Boring. Or you can kill yourself. We'll watch.

Rin's not intelligent. He would take it at face value, and of course he would want to live. After all, Shiro just gave up his life for him.

Chances are he knew exactly how it would happen. Even if Rin submitted to death, he would probably wake up in a cell and be given an ultimatum to do what Mephisto wanted.

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2017, 06:46:44 PM »
One thing that always perplexes me is in the very beginning where Mephisto arrives to kill Rin (Ch:1 Pg:62) but is so amused by what Rin says he changes his mind. However later at Mephisto's trial he states it was his plan all along to raise Rin as a weapon for the order. (Ch:14 Pg:31)

I thought maybe he made this up to convince the order not to execute Rin but in Shura's flashback a conversation with Shiro he says the same thing (Ch:10 Pg:25). This was clearly their game plan all along so why threaten to kill him at all?

Was the whole thing to Kill Rin just for show? Or am I thinking too hard about this and Kato just forgot.

It gets worse when you consider that Mephisto is the one Rin was supposed to go to for protection. Not really following the job description there, were you, Mephy?


Chances are he knew exactly how it would happen. Even if Rin submitted to death, he would probably wake up in a cell and be given an ultimatum to do what Mephisto wanted.

Except he didn't, because I'm pretty sure Rin's words actually surprised him. This was a reaction he hadn't foreseen.

Of course he was gonna get his way anyway; just a minor change in plans.

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2017, 07:44:17 PM »
Chances are he knew exactly how it would happen. Even if Rin submitted to death, he would probably wake up in a cell and be given an ultimatum to do what Mephisto wanted.

Except he didn't, because I'm pretty sure Rin's words actually surprised him. This was a reaction he hadn't foreseen.

Of course he was gonna get his way anyway; just a minor change in plans.

I guess what I meant was that he knew which way it was going to fall. Since this, we know for certain that he planned things to go certain ways. But perhaps he's relived that moment several times, and it just kills him with laughter each time.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 03:12:13 AM by Kittykat »

Offline tandem

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2017, 09:22:34 AM »
Ah yes, that's a lot easier to scroll through.

Though I think "Exorcist exam arc" is a bit misleading of a name, since we still haven't seen any exam yet.

Tbh, it sounded weird to me too. I took those arcs names from a BE wikia. I accept any alternative title suggestion :)

Crazy Yukio Arc?
Wait, no, nevermind. That could be almost any arc. No I don't like him how can you tell

Yukio Awakening Arc? It IS the first time we get confirmation of his powers...
earthforge classified the arcs in a recent post, just FYI

One thing that always perplexes me is in the very beginning where Mephisto arrives to kill Rin (Ch:1 Pg:62) but is so amused by what Rin says he changes his mind. However later at Mephisto's trial he states it was his plan all along to raise Rin as a weapon for the order. (Ch:14 Pg:31)

I thought maybe he made this up to convince the order not to execute Rin but in Shura's flashback a conversation with Shiro he says the same thing (Ch:10 Pg:25). This was clearly their game plan all along so why threaten to kill him at all?

Was the whole thing to Kill Rin just for show? Or am I thinking too hard about this and Kato just forgot.

It gets worse when you consider that Mephisto is the one Rin was supposed to go to for protection. Not really following the job description there, were you, Mephy?
It actually makes sense if you only consider Chapter 1 alone. Originally Shiro told Rin never draw the sword, but Rin did. Shiro even said he wants to raise Rin as a human, which means without drawing the sword. However things went wrong instantly and Rin became a demon. Therefore Mephisto did have enough reason to break the protection because Rin is now a potentially dangerous demon.

But as Megamadic said, things become more complicated to analyze after later chapters ...

Chances are he knew exactly how it would happen. Even if Rin submitted to death, he would probably wake up in a cell and be given an ultimatum to do what Mephisto wanted.

Except he didn't, because I'm pretty sure Rin's words actually surprised him. This was a reaction he hadn't foreseen.

Of course he was gonna get his way anyway; just a minor change in plans.

I guess what I meant was that he knew which way it was going to fall. Since this, we know for certain that he planned things to go certain ways.
But we don't know when Mephisto complete his plan in Chapter 66, it's possible the whole plan is completed in the middle of the story (for example after the IK arc).

For Mephisto's plan at the beginning, I think the two explanations are possible and both have some supporting points and flaws:


1. Before Chapter 1, Mephisto thought Rin would stay human and maybe just become a human exorcist with strong body and a little blue flame

And then things changed. Mephisto tried to kill the demon Rin, but changed his mind after laughing at Rin's response. Since Rin said he will defeat Satan, Mephisto used it as an excuse in court.

This matches what Shiro said in Chapter 1, but it will contradict Shura's flashback. Unless Shiro means even if Rin stays human he could still be a useful weapon using some random demon sword other than Kurikara. But that is kind of weird.
(In first season anime Ep13 They took out the line that Shiro said he wanted to create a weapon in Shura's flashback ... wonder if it means that is not canon anymore)


2. From the beginning, Mephisto (and Shiro) expected Rin reach his full power and maybe defeat Satan

And then as time passed by, Shiro changed his mind, so he told Rin to stay human in Chapter 1. After Rin became demon Mephisto went back to their original plan to train Rin as a weapon.

This matches Shura's flashback, but it will not answer why Mephisto said they would kill Rin in Chapter 1. Maybe Mephisto pretended to kill Rin because there are other exorcists with him, and planned to help Rin run away (if Rin run) or hide Rin (if Rin not run). Then Rin gave an unexpected response, so Mephisto thought he can convince the Order to accept Rin. But that is kind of complicated
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 01:25:06 PM by tandem »

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2017, 04:20:33 PM »
Chances are he knew exactly how it would happen. Even if Rin submitted to death, he would probably wake up in a cell and be given an ultimatum to do what Mephisto wanted.

Except he didn't, because I'm pretty sure Rin's words actually surprised him. This was a reaction he hadn't foreseen.

Of course he was gonna get his way anyway; just a minor change in plans.
Quote
Quote
I guess what I meant was that he knew which way it was going to fall. Since this, we know for certain that he planned things to go certain ways.
But we don't know when Mephisto complete his plan in Chapter 66, it's possible the whole plan is completed in the middle of the story (for example after the IK arc).

For Mephisto's plan at the beginning, I think the two explanations are possible and both have some supporting points and flaws:


1. Before Chapter 1, Mephisto thought Rin would stay human and maybe just become a human exorcist with strong body and a little blue flame

And then things changed. Mephisto tried to kill the demon Rin, but changed his mind after laughing at Rin's response. Since Rin said he will defeat Satan, Mephisto used it as an excuse in court.

This matches what Shiro said in Chapter 1, but it will contradict Shura's flashback. Unless Shiro means even if Rin stays human he could still be a useful weapon using some random demon sword other than Kurikara. But that is kind of weird.
(In first season anime Ep13 They took out the line that Shiro said he wanted to create a weapon in Shura's flashback ... wonder if it means that is not canon anymore)


2. From the beginning, Mephisto (and Shiro) expected Rin reach his full power and maybe defeat Satan

And then as time passed by, Shiro changed his mind, so he told Rin to stay human in Chapter 1. After Rin became demon Mephisto went back to their original plan to train Rin as a weapon.

This matches Shura's flashback, but it will not answer why Mephisto said they would kill Rin in Chapter 1. Maybe Mephisto pretended to kill Rin because there are other exorcists with him, and planned to help Rin run away (if Rin run) or hide Rin (if Rin not run). Then Rin gave an unexpected response, so Mephisto thought he can convince the Order to accept Rin. But that is kind of complicated

I think we're thinking of Mephisto in two different ways.

You're thinking of him as a regular character with limited knowledge similar to everyone else. I'm thinking of him as someone who's in between, a being playing a role within the story. He has a type of omniscience kind of like a narrator. He knows what's going on and is twisting the characters like a puppeteer to create a story and to achieve his goal of destroying/stopping Lucifer.

Heh. I guess in my headcanon I'm giving him more powers related to time. He sees multiple timelines/parallel universes and chooses a direction that he wants, manipulates choices to go the single timeline he wants to happen. /shrug If a different choice is made, then he adapts until it falls into place. Unless it goes pear shaped and then maybe he rewinds and tries again. Lol.



« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 03:00:11 AM by Kittykat »

Offline earthforge

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2017, 06:01:07 PM »
Crazy Yukio Arc?
Wait, no, nevermind. That could be almost any arc. No I don't like him how can you tell
Yukio Awakening Arc? It IS the first time we get confirmation of his powers...

Lol, even I was yelling at Yukio during that arc. Pointing a gun at his own head... the stupid git. I'm starting to doubt that his powers allowed him to survive the fall. He blacked out, so he could've been rescued and unceremoniously dumped on the ground. Would be the perfect irony.
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Offline Cloelia

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2017, 09:00:37 PM »
Chapter 66:
"If you don't like it, you can try and show me how much you've grown." (pag. 26) These are the same exact words Shiro said to Rin back in the beginning. (chp. 1 - pag. 14) I find it creepy to even start to consider which theory could be put up from this...

Actually, I think I found a way to explain this, and reading the Crack Theories topic helped me out with it.

Mephisto used Shiro's words. Words that he shouldn't technically been able to hear since he wasn't present at the time Shiro and Rin had that conversation. But, well, this scene -does- have a potential extra spectator...

chp. 1 - pag. 15

It is prolly just a random coal tar, but...

Offline tandem

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2017, 03:23:36 AM »
Time to re-analysis IK arc since we are back to Kyoto in latest chapter...

Quote
- Fujimoto "steals" the Koma sword months before the Blue Night. It's not stated how many months though. (pag. 35 and pag. 39)
- Anyway, how is Tatsuma aware that Rin is indeed the kid that Fujimoto wanted to kill? The first time he heard Rin state his name, he instantly guessed  it was THAT kid. (chp. 18 - pag. 18)
He guessed it was Fujimoto's kid, probably because the latter wrote him or something. We have no proof he knew Rin was the kid that was supposed to get killed.
From Tatsuma's letter, we know before they came to Kyoto he already awared that Okumura Rin, one of Shiro's sons, has blue flame that might destroy IK. He planned to send the letter to Tokyo but later he met Rin, so he is like "oh you are that boy who has blue flame.".

About how Tatsuma knew that, since at that time a lot of people in Vatican already knew Rin's identity, I think we don't have to link it to the flashback between Tatsuma and Shiro.

Quote
Chapter 28:
- I don't fully consider Todo's implication at Fujimoto raising Yukio as a tool to specifically protect Rin just a ploy he uses to provoke Yukio. It rather sounds like Todo trying to kinda "open" Yukio's eyes (he may know more than it seems). It may be my impression though. (pag. 27)
To someone like Toudou, it does not matter if something is true or not, as long as he can use it.
I assume Toudou said that based on his own experience. He also think he is a tool of his family.

- The moment Todo's flames are about to reach Yukio... boom, eyes power awakens. Todo looks pretty taken aback and jumps away. (pag. 32 and pag. 33)
I assume Toudou had seen Satan's blue flame hence knew it's very dangerous. If not in the Illuminati, probably he was also from Section 13.
----



One of the biggest unsolved mystery in IK arc is how the left eye became Mephisto's belongings. Apparently it was before Myodha joined the Order. Kato intentionally leave it unexplained, so I always suspect it has to do with something important in future story.

Offline Cherub

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2017, 12:11:39 PM »
I just want to thank you for literally summarising almost the whole manga in terms of significant plot points. I had an enjoyable afternoon just reading your review for each arc with a cappuccino in hand, even though it was less of an alaysis and more of a preview - but yes, I'm supposing this was to provoke some kind of analysis via forum.

I feel like I just re-read all the chapters too.
This'll be in handy when trying to recall things tho so thanks  :D

Offline Cloelia

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2017, 08:22:14 PM »
^ ;) Ty, glad this helped. *offers some cookies to soak into the cappuccino*

I had fun making it but I'm even more happy if someone finds it helpful or simply considers it a enjoyable reading (forgive me for my poor grammar and all the mistakes *cough*) My aim was to summarize every detail of the manga that I considered notable. And I'm going to add more soon and update it.

Offline earthforge

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2017, 03:59:56 AM »
Some small thoughts on reading this again:

Quote
- "And when you feel better, you can go back to your training or strength tests or whatever." (I wish someone could tell Rin that, in other words, he just wished his bro to go to die :D) (pag. 22)

I thought Yukio's reaction in that panel was shock at Rin's implicit forgiveness for all he said in the fight with Hachiro. That connects with how Yukio later reflects on how everyone else has a burden and cares for others, while he can't even see anyone else.

One of Yukio's motifs is sight. His heritage-related abilities manifest in his eyes, he obsesses over a "broader vision", and he is blind to his own attachments and care for others.

Quote
- I don't fully consider Todo's implication at Fujimoto raising Yukio as a tool to specifically protect Rin just a ploy he uses to provoke Yukio. It rather sounds like Todo trying to kinda "open" Yukio's eyes (he may know more than it seems). It may be my impression though. (pag. 27)

While I think Toudou just said that to get under Yukio's skin as a way of passing the time, I am concerned about Shiro's motives in training Yukio. He knew the circumstances of the Okumura twins' birth and Lucy said that story is directly connected to Yukio's dormant powers. I wonder how much Shiro knew and to what degree he was in on Mephisto's plan...
"There are no answers. Only choices."

Offline tandem

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2017, 02:42:48 PM »
I am concerned about Shiro's motives in training Yukio.
Why do people often suspect it's strange that Shiro has been training Yukio? Maybe just because Shiro thought Yukio has talent and Shiro also started his own training very young. Yukio himself seems never doubt there is some reason behind Shiro's training.

Offline Kittykat

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Re: Blue Exorcist In-Deep Analysis (chp.1-88)
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2017, 03:04:43 PM »
I am concerned about Shiro's motives in training Yukio.
Why do people often suspect it's strange that Shiro has been training Yukio? Maybe just because Shiro thought Yukio has talent and Shiro also started his own training very young. Yukio himself seems never doubt there is some reason behind Shiro's training.

Probably because there were some dark intentions to raising Rin. Their reason, to keep him alive, was to raise a weapon. At least it's their reason to the Vatican, and in Mephisto's case, he wants to keep humans alive to protect the status quo. Shiro could have possibly fallen in love with raising the two after a few years of being a parent, but more than likely not right off the bat. It's possible that Shiro planned Yukio as a contingency should Rin go out of control when he found out that Yukio did not inherit anything (at least at the present moment we don't think he knew anything about yukio inheriting powers). I suspect he knew he was going to die or knew that he was at great risk of dying. It's also possible that they planned to not train Rin at an early age, so he would be easier to take out should the need arise. They needed to know if he was useful, but again, somewhere along the way, raising Rin became real for Shiro. He imparted much of his kinder self to Rin as a means to "keep him human" when he realized that Rin was more than a demon. (He had to have had the same mentality as the Order being raised by them but changed as experience grew). I think of the twins as a reflection of a Shiro split in two.