Shipping Thread!

[chinonamida]

I haven't yet seen any sign of respect between the two. Unless it's not fighting for a week or two.

ryuuji even said out loud he agrees with her. Its fair to believe they respect this side of each other.
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v11/c045/12.html

And besides, why was it necessary for Izumo to stay close to him in the first place?

In the theory of shima being a good guy who fakes being the illuminati spy,
he would do it to prevent izumo from falling upon the real spy on her way for help.
and he couldnt tell her out loud, that would have ruined his plan.

Izumo is the one who did the vicious slapping. And she isn't much nicer to Shima, so... I think you're blowing holes in your own ship here.

izumo doesnt respect renzou but he respects her. so at least he has that going for him.

We know Shima doesn't care about hurting her feelings. He does it all the time.

Renzou hurt izumo's feeling all the time? :/

But when you go from minor stalking to kidnapping and attempted murder, you can't just wave it away as teenager stuff anymore.

he never wanted to murder her. where do you get that from?
lets be honest T T



All the rest of this discussion is going in circles.
because you are debating on something (if its still possible to ship renzou and izumo) but dont agree on the premise (if renzou as good or bad intentions towards izumo)

if you want to debate renzou's intentions, do so, but do it on its own.

if you want to debate on renzou's chances with izumo, do it understanding you dont agree on the premise.

edit:

They manhandle each other. That's why I think they understand what they are getting into whenever they interact. Heck, I think they even find it fun. My estimation is that they will become Vitriolic Best Buds. They aren't there yet, but I think they'll get there soon. But I think they do respect each other at least at a low level -- something must have kept them from killing each other.

But they *love* fighting each other. They wouldn't do it if it wasn't fun.

I dont get how you see this.
theyre certainly not having fun.

Renzou might or might not be a bad guy. I like chino's view that Renzou might've chose this, though I don't want it to overlap with Yukio's arc.

I dont think it will. especially if yukio always stays loyal to the order.

[NeeNee]

We know Shima doesn't care about hurting her feelings. He does it all the time.

Renzou hurt izumo's feeling all the time? :/

She told him she doesn't want anything to do with him, like, 15 times, and he still keeps asking her and running after her and making kissy noises at her, even though it is so very clear that this is annoying her. It's especially obvious in the Kraken arc, where she couldn't make it more obvious that his behaviour is making her uncomfortable (I'd even say she is feeling threatened, though I guess that's a matter of interpretation).

http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v09/c035/11.html

Maybe it's me, but I think that constantly annoying a girl after she repeatedly rejected you is a pretty clear sign that you don't care too much about the girl's feelings. For me, what he does constitutes as harassment, and harassment is never romantic.

But when you go from minor stalking to kidnapping and attempted murder, you can't just wave it away as teenager stuff anymore.

he never wanted to murder her. where do you get that from?
lets be honest T T

I was talking about Takara. Even if they were fighting, they fact that he was immediately ready to destroy the guy's soul makes it hard for me to see Shima as a good guy. Rin wouldn't do that. Even Yukio wouldn't. Regardless of circumstances, it shows us something about his attitude and it's not pretty.

[earthforge]

But they *love* fighting each other. They wouldn't do it if it wasn't fun.

I dont get how you see this.
theyre certainly not having fun.

Izumo enjoys mocking Bon and Bon enjoys mocking her. They find it irritating and enraging but they wouldn't annoy each other if it wasn't fun to watch.

Renzou might or might not be a bad guy. I like chino's view that Renzou might've chose this, though I don't want it to overlap with Yukio's arc.

I dont think it will. especially if yukio always stays loyal to the order.

Maybe, but I think that the answers to Yukio's questions ("why were we saved" in particular) lie outside of the Order. I don't think he can remain loyal to the Order to answer those questions.

She told him she doesn't want anything to do with him, like, 15 times, and he still keeps asking her and running after her and making kissy noises at her, even though it is so very clear that this is annoying her. It's especially obvious in the Kraken arc, where she couldn't make it more obvious that his behaviour is making her uncomfortable (I'd even say she is feeling threatened, though I guess that's a matter of interpretation).

The RenzouxIzumo ship has always been on a knife's edge. You're right -- harassment is very disturbing. But up to now, their interactions have been Played For Laughs. It's hard to consider Renzou as a serious creep when he is drawn so ridiculous. In mangaverse, we don't know whether Renzou's actions were just exaggerated for humor or if they were drawn in all seriousness. In general, tsunderes are portrayed as always rejecting any attention despite still being interested. Izumo has never appeared threatened by Renzou -- either because she sorta liked the attention or because she never considered him dangerous.

In general, the ship up to now has been standard tsundere/letch fare. But now that Renzou has, well, backstabbed her, their relationship is put in a creepy context. If you apply that willingness to backstab her to his previous dealings, all of the innocuous adolescent pursuing turns very disturbing.

Haha. That reminds me - this is why Renzou was so obsessed with the Festival. That'd be his last chance to enjoy a normal high school event.

Even if they were fighting, they fact that he was immediately ready to destroy the guy's soul makes it hard for me to see Shima as a good guy. Rin wouldn't do that. Even Yukio wouldn't. Regardless of circumstances, it shows us something about his attitude and it's not pretty.

Personal opinion ahead: That actually didn't bother me. Renzou has generally been pragmatic in combat. Last time, he was correct about escaping the IK as an option, as they didn't have Ucchusma yet. Now he was ready to take out Mephisto's spy because Takara could've blown his cover. He's cold. That will make him an excellent exorcist, though. I find that less disturbing than Rin and Yukio, who are extremely volatile. If you push either into a rage, they won't just kill - they will butcher.

[chinonamida]

being annoying deosnt hurt people's feelings.
and being who you are isnt a lack of care fore someone else's feelings.
sexual harassment, if thats what your talking about, is when the person being flirted somehow cant turn the other person down.

I was talking about Takara.

ok

sorry it was long to reply even though Im connected, I had something to attend to. actually I still have.


edit:
earthforge, thanks. (its ok if you dont understand why Im thanking you.)
almost everyone thinks being cold blooded is the worst thing a human being could be while killing out of passion are fine for most of them.
I never got that.

[Anya]

Chino is right, one thing we can agree about is if Shima or Illuminati is really evil.

The scene with the paladin (I always hated) and his friend torturing an Illuminati guy (earthforge: by family guy I meant the guy whose family was dragged to the torture cellar) should give us a hint that there may be something more than good Order vs. evil Illuminati going on here. Even if Toudou (whom I dislike more than most posters here, actually) is with them, some of them look much nicer than some of the Order people.

And about murdering fellow student - c'mon, no one here likes him, especially since showing Izumo that creepy mascot and then attacking her, some think that he's a demon. Why would anyone now defend him? And against Shima who is one of Rin's best friend and the first of the Kyoto trio who talked to him? It's hypocrisy, defending him now only to back up arguments against Renzou.

1. Better understanding of the situation? 2. Takara was never planning to hurt Izumo. 3. He wasn't even on the attack anymore when Shima made that move. 4. Even if you argue that Shima thought what he did was best, our perspective makes it clear that the move was totally unnecessary - if he was doing it to protect Izumo.

1. Yeah, calling Takara Mephisto's puppet shows that he knows what's going on between the top players.
2. Izumo herself would beg to differ when she was attacked by a giant transformer.
3. A couple of seconds of silence when Takara was licking his wounds. He's now ready to fight again.
4. I don't understand you. Imo Shima could thinkhe was doing the best he could do and it definitely was neccessary, because otherwise Izumo would left.

And besides, why was it necessary for Izumo to stay close to him in the first place? If he was the only one capable of fighting Takara (who, again, wasn't even fighting anymore), he could have kept him busy while Izumo got away. It was pretty clear that there were plenty of other exorcists nearby that could have helped protecting her once she went calling for help.

As I said, we don't know what Shima knows or intends.

Izumo is the one who did the vicious slapping. And she isn't much nicer to Shima, so... I think you're blowing holes in your own ship here.

Bzuh? How? Renzou, unlike Bon, never fought Izumo, he actually flirts with her. Izumo is annoyed with Renzou, but she doesn't viciously manhandle him like Bon. The difference is very clear to me.

We have no indication at all that the Order was planning to hurt her, so... how exactly did he save her life? What was he protecting her from? If it was just from Takara, there would be no reason to take her to anyone but Shura

I'm not good at divination, but it's something to discuss, isn't it?

(and we know Takara wasn't really trying to hurt her in the first place).

See above.

We know Shima doesn't care about hurting her feelings. He does it all the time. But when you go from minor stalking to kidnapping and attempted murder, you can't just wave it away as teenager stuff anymore.

That's not stalking, he's flirting and she is not amused. He didn't kidnap her and if he plans to, we don't know his motifs. Murder? You mean with the weapon that doesn't hurt humans?

They manhandle each other. That's why I think they understand what they are getting into whenever they interact. Heck, I think they even find it fun. My estimation is that they will become Vitriolic Best Buds. They aren't there yet, but I think they'll get there soon. But I think they do respect each other at least at a low level -- something must have kept them from killing each other.

That is romantic indeed.

Second, if it's about "OMG I TRUSTED YOUUU!" then I tend to not take offense if the "betrayal" saves my life in process or at least was meant to help me. And again, I'm not sure Shima is the bad guy here, even if he does plan to take her to his boss.

Ah, but you don't have crippling trust issues that makes you act like a total bitch who deliberately alienates everyone.

So Izumo has issues, why is that Renzou's fault that she makes her life harder?

But they *love* fighting each other. They wouldn't do it if it wasn't fun.

I never heard of a war starting because it's fun.

ryuuji even said out loud he agrees with her. Its fair to believe they respect this side of each other.
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v11/c045/12.html

So they happened to agree on something. *shrug*

In the theory of shima being a good guy who fakes being the illuminati spy,
he would do it to prevent izumo from falling upon the real spy on her way for help.
and he couldnt tell her out loud, that would have ruined his plan.

It's a theory good as any other. What if he was acting on Myou Dha's orders. They are scheming something too.

We know Shima doesn't care about hurting her feelings. He does it all the time.

Renzou hurt izumo's feeling all the time? :/

She told him she doesn't want anything to do with him, like, 15 times, and he still keeps asking her and running after her and making kissy noises at her, even though it is so very clear that this is annoying her.

Apparently when you don't flirt skillfully it's horribly disrespectful. Kissy noises, that bastard...

I was talking about Takara. Even if they were fighting, they fact that he was immediately ready to destroy the guy's soul makes it hard for me to see Shima as a good guy. Rin wouldn't do that. Even Yukio wouldn't. Regardless of circumstances, it shows us something about his attitude and it's not pretty.

As we could see later, the weapon doesn't immediately destroy souls. Besides, Takara was attacking Izumo and with overwhelming power and creepy Chuckie doll attitude, what was Shima supposed to do, go get some other weapon to not hurt him too much?

Izumo enjoys mocking Bon and Bon enjoys mocking her. They find it irritating and enraging but they wouldn't annoy each other if it wasn't fun to watch.

You mean they do it to entertain others?

being annoying deosnt hurt people's feelings.
and being who you are isnt a lack of care fore someone else's feelings.

Yeah. Just because someone is oversensitive or plain emo doesn't mean the rest of the world should behave as s/he wishes or feel bad if emo doesn't accept them.

But I can't see ho Izumo is hurt with Renzou constantly complimenting her. Can't see why she should be. Can't see any pain in her eyes or anywhere. If anything, she's the one fully controlling situation here.

[NeeNee]

The scene with the paladin (I always hated) and his friend torturing an Illuminati guy (earthforge: by family guy I meant the guy whose family was dragged to the torture cellar) should give us a hint that there may be something more than good Order vs. evil Illuminati going on here. Even if Toudou (whom I dislike more than most posters here, actually) is with them, some of them look much nicer than some of the Order people.

You call that a 'honourable and composed family guy'? Someone who is cool with kidnapping and using a young girl, but who starts whining and immediately betrays his allies when someone else does the same with his kid?

Also, employing one moderately nice guy doesn't really measure up against obliterating random cities.

And about murdering fellow student - c'mon, no one here likes him, especially since showing Izumo that creepy mascot and then attacking her, some think that he's a demon. Why would anyone now defend him? And against Shima who is one of Rin's best friend and the first of the Kyoto trio who talked to him? It's hypocrisy, defending him now only to back up arguments against Renzou.

Are you arguing it's okay to murder people when no-one likes them?

1. Better understanding of the situation? 2. Takara was never planning to hurt Izumo. 3. He wasn't even on the attack anymore when Shima made that move. 4. Even if you argue that Shima thought what he did was best, our perspective makes it clear that the move was totally unnecessary - if he was doing it to protect Izumo.

1. Yeah, calling Takara Mephisto's puppet shows that he knows what's going on between the top players.
2. Izumo herself would beg to differ when she was attacked by a giant transformer.
3. A couple of seconds of silence when Takara was licking his wounds. He's now ready to fight again.
4. I don't understand you. Imo Shima could thinkhe was doing the best he could do and it definitely was neccessary, because otherwise Izumo would left.

Exactly. Otherwise Izumo would have left. It's not about keeping her safe, it's about keeping her from leaving.

We know Shima doesn't care about hurting her feelings. He does it all the time. But when you go from minor stalking to kidnapping and attempted murder, you can't just wave it away as teenager stuff anymore.

That's not stalking, he's flirting and she is not amused. He didn't kidnap her and if he plans to, we don't know his motifs. Murder? You mean with the weapon that doesn't hurt humans?

I mean with a weapon that burns human souls.

Did we actually read the same chapter?

Second, if it's about "OMG I TRUSTED YOUUU!" then I tend to not take offense if the "betrayal" saves my life in process or at least was meant to help me. And again, I'm not sure Shima is the bad guy here, even if he does plan to take her to his boss.

Ah, but you don't have crippling trust issues that makes you act like a total bitch who deliberately alienates everyone.

So Izumo has issues, why is that Renzou's fault that she makes her life harder?

Even if it's not Renzou's fault, it makes a relationship much more unlikely.

I was talking about Takara. Even if they were fighting, they fact that he was immediately ready to destroy the guy's soul makes it hard for me to see Shima as a good guy. Rin wouldn't do that. Even Yukio wouldn't. Regardless of circumstances, it shows us something about his attitude and it's not pretty.

As we could see later, the weapon doesn't immediately destroy souls. Besides, Takara was attacking Izumo and with overwhelming power and creepy Chuckie doll attitude, what was Shima supposed to do, go get some other weapon to not hurt him too much?

When did we see this?

And yes, looking for less murderous options seems like a really good idea.

She told him she doesn't want anything to do with him, like, 15 times, and he still keeps asking her and running after her and making kissy noises at her, even though it is so very clear that this is annoying her.

Apparently when you don't flirt skillfully it's horribly disrespectful. Kissy noises, that bastard...

being annoying deosnt hurt people's feelings.
and being who you are isnt a lack of care fore someone else's feelings.

Yeah. Just because someone is oversensitive or plain emo doesn't mean the rest of the world should behave as s/he wishes or feel bad if emo doesn't accept them.

But I can't see ho Izumo is hurt with Renzou constantly complimenting her. Can't see why she should be. Can't see any pain in her eyes or anywhere. If anything, she's the one fully controlling situation here.

Yes, because women just love it when they can't walk down the street without men constantly whistling and yelling things at them and making dishonourable propositions.

Honestly, what are they complaining about? They should be happy that men deem them worthy of attention! They're just women, after all. Who ever heard of respecting a woman's personal space or privacy? [/sarcasm]

You can't see the pain in her eyes? Look at this pic again and tell me you see a happy girl there.

http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v09/c035/11.html

[earthforge]

Even if Toudou (whom I dislike more than most posters here, actually) is with them, some of them look much nicer than some of the Order people.

And some of the TC Order look nicer than some of the Illuminati. You could probably find several TC Order exorcists who are nicer than, say, Toudou and the Impure Princess possession lady.

Toudou is a pathetic old ham. I just enjoy laughing both with and at him.

And about murdering fellow student - c'mon, no one here likes him

Still, murder is bad and to be avoided.

We know Shima doesn't care about hurting her feelings. He does it all the time. But when you go from minor stalking to kidnapping and attempted murder, you can't just wave it away as teenager stuff anymore.

That's not stalking, he's flirting and she is not amused. He didn't kidnap her and if he plans to, we don't know his motifs. Murder? You mean with the weapon that doesn't hurt humans?

Renzou's pretty obviously kidnapping her. He is the Illuminati spy sent to whisk Izumo away from the TC Academy. That's why he had to stop her from finding their fellow classmates. Renzou's staff does hurt humans as it burns their souls (see the whole discussion in the chapter thread with chino).

They manhandle each other. That's why I think they understand what they are getting into whenever they interact. Heck, I think they even find it fun. My estimation is that they will become Vitriolic Best Buds. They aren't there yet, but I think they'll get there soon. But I think they do respect each other at least at a low level -- something must have kept them from killing each other.

That is romantic indeed.

It's a basis for a relationship to some people, even if it isn't one to you or me.

So Izumo has issues, why is that Renzou's fault that she makes her life harder?

Renzou knew that Izumo had major trust issues. He knew that she was acting nasty as a defense mechanism. Knowing all this, Renzou still chose to betray her trust that. It doesn't matter why he did it. He betrayed her. Betrayal cannot be easily forgiven, especially by someone who has been burned in the past.

But they *love* fighting each other. They wouldn't do it if it wasn't fun.

I never heard of a war starting because it's fun.

Many people fight rhetorically, romantically or physically for fun. In the immortal words of the classic song, "it's the eye of the tiger, the thrill of the fight".

Apparently when you don't flirt skillfully it's horribly disrespectful. Kissy noises, that bastard...

I think there's cultural differences interfering with what we are saying. Where I live (California), kissy noises and catcalls are considered very disrespectful. Shitty "flirting", as you term it, is the sign of a male who can't act decently. I'm not sure how it is where you live.

In mangas, I generally ignore such blatant displays of horny males because such scenes are exaggerated to comedic effect.

Yeah. Just because someone is oversensitive or plain emo doesn't mean the rest of the world should behave as s/he wishes or feel bad if emo doesn't accept them.

Part of treating others like how they'd treat you is respecting the weaknesses and strengths of others. There is something to be said for working with people instead of condescending them from a position of ignorance.

But I can't see ho Izumo is hurt with Renzou constantly complimenting her. Can't see why she should be. Can't see any pain in her eyes or anywhere. If anything, she's the one fully controlling situation here.

Izumo wasn't hurting or afraid -- she was disgusted. But Izumo can't control Renzou's pursuit, which can get downright disturbing because she can't deter him.

[Wikkelsoee]

Well, she can't really hate Renzou that much since she choose to trust him in the end.
Tsunderes are fun to tease, so I can't really blame him (I say this a a tsundere myself...). Most of the time when she seems angry at him, she's probably just embarrassed.

[Anya]

You call that a 'honourable and composed family guy'? Someone who is cool with kidnapping and using a young girl, but who starts whining and immediately betrays his allies when someone else does the same with his kid?

You were on Arthur's side in that torture scene? How do you know what they want to do with Izumo? How do you know every Illuminati want to obliterate cities and not only Toudou and maybe couple of similar freaks?

Are you arguing it's okay to murder people when no-one likes them?

There's a good reason noone likes him. Like being a nasty demon who attacks people. Besides, murdering in a fair fight we usually call "killing in a battle", if someone is actually killed, which didn't happen here.

Exactly. Otherwise Izumo would have left. It's not about keeping her safe, it's about keeping her from leaving.

I'm repeating myself. How do you know what was better for her in that particular situation?

I mean with a weapon that burns human souls.

Did we actually read the same chapter?

Yeah, but I read to the last page. There was a passage about "this much will only make you unconscious".

Even if it's not Renzou's fault, it makes a relationship much more unlikely.

Ah, but now the relationship depends on the girl growing out of a teenage issues, not on what Renzou supposedly did wrong.

And yes, looking for less murderous options seems like a really good idea.

Well, I disagree.

You can't see the pain in her eyes? Look at this pic again and tell me you see a happy girl there.

http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v09/c035/11.html

You mean the "Shut up, you creep" picture? Seriously??? I thought it was "I'll murder you" face.

Renzou knew that Izumo had major trust issues. He knew that she was acting nasty as a defense mechanism. Knowing all this, Renzou still chose to betray her trust that. It doesn't matter why he did it. He betrayed her. Betrayal cannot be easily forgiven, especially by someone who has been burned in the past.

Doesn't matter why he did it? Let's say he saved her life. Still doesn't count?

Many people fight rhetorically, romantically or physically for fun. In the immortal words of the classic song, "it's the eye of the tiger, the thrill of the fight".

Ok, now how do we know they're thrilled to fight each other and not because they genuinely can't stand and want to murder each other?

I think there's cultural differences interfering with what we are saying. Where I live (California), kissy noises and catcalls are considered very disrespectful. Shitty "flirting", as you term it, is the sign of a male who can't act decently. I'm not sure how it is where you live.

Same, except women in such situations feel disguised not hurt. If the kissing noises are made by colleague you're on equal terms and you can tell him "shut up, you creep" whenever you please, he doesn't touch you, stalk you, come to your house and such. I suppose in US women hire lawyers whenever they hear someone kiss air in their general direction as they do when someone gives them hot tea not telling that hot may be hot.

In mangas, I generally ignore such blatant displays of horny males because such scenes are exaggerated to comedic effect.

And that's an approach I admire in heated debates.

Part of treating others like how they'd treat you is respecting the weaknesses and strengths of others. There is something to be said for working with people instead of condescending them from a position of ignorance.

They were under attack. It's shounen, not shoujo.

Izumo wasn't hurting or afraid -- she was disgusted. But Izumo can't control Renzou's pursuit, which can get downright disturbing because she can't deter him.

Can and may but never have since she has never been pained because of that.

Well, she can't really hate Renzou that much since she choose to trust him in the end.
Tsunderes are fun to tease, so I can't really blame him (I say this a a tsundere myself...). Most of the time when she seems angry at him, she probably just embarrassed.

Well said. There, looks like posters outside US have totally different point of view.

[chinonamida]

Izumo enjoys mocking Bon and Bon enjoys mocking her. They find it irritating and enraging but they wouldn't annoy each other if it wasn't fun to watch.

Many people fight rhetorically, romantically or physically for fun. In the immortal words of the classic song, "it's the eye of the tiger, the thrill of the fight".

. . .
I think izumo and ryuuji are truly not enjoying this.
when izumo mocked ryuuji’s goal to deafeat satan or the aria’s job, ryuuji wasn’t enjoying himself.
and when ryuuji told izumo her attitude will make everyone hates her, she wasn’t enjoying herself.
they say harmful things and they don’t say it for fun.

Yeah. Just because someone is oversensitive or plain emo doesn't mean the rest of the world should behave as s/he wishes or feel bad if emo doesn't accept them.

if you want to say things like that, don’t quote me right before - ___- ‘’

Part of treating others like how they'd treat you is respecting the weaknesses and strengths of others. There is something to be said for working with people instead of condescending them from a position of ignorance.

you mean, “treating others how you would like them to treat you” I suppose. “treating them like how they’d treat you” as a rule is impossible. If they’d need to do the same, then there’s nothing to start from. anyway.
I don’t see whats the link. what anya unskilfully said was “you don’t have to change who you are just because people don’t like you”. or I think thats what she said. whatever.

Apparently when you don't flirt skillfully it's horribly disrespectful. Kissy noises, that bastard...
[…]
But I can't see ho Izumo is hurt with Renzou constantly complimenting her. Can't see why she should be. Can't see any pain in her eyes or anywhere. If anything, she's the one fully controlling situation here.

Yes, because women just love it when they can't walk down the street without men constantly whistling and yelling things at them and making dishonourable propositions.
Honestly, what are they complaining about? They should be happy that men deem them worthy of attention! They're just women, after all. Who ever heard of respecting a woman's personal space or privacy? [/sarcasm]
You can't see the pain in her eyes? Look at this pic again and tell me you see a happy girl there.
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v09/c035/11.html

I think there's cultural differences interfering with what we are saying. Where I live (California), kissy noises and catcalls are considered very disrespectful. Shitty "flirting", as you term it, is the sign of a male who can't act decently. I'm not sure how it is where you live.
In mangas, I generally ignore such blatant displays of horny males because such scenes are exaggerated to comedic effect.
[…]
Izumo wasn't hurting or afraid -- she was disgusted. But Izumo can't control Renzou's pursuit, which can get downright disturbing because she can't deter him.

T T
renzou is a pervert alright. but most men are. now I think about it, with ryuuji, koneko and yukio, the ratio of this manga seems skewed.

but what did renzou do really? (before last chapter)

besides asking for her cell phone number, planning to ask her to go to the pool, asking her to see a concert and asking her to go to the festival. two of which he was turned down but didn’t insisted.

he told her she looked good in a yukata.
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v06/c023/7.html
right after, no one cares, they’re all sitting around discussing.
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v06/c023/8.html

he made a fuss over her wearing a swimsuit.
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v09/c035/11.html
next thing you know, they’re all playing ball.
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v09/c035/19.html

the only reason she hates him flirting with her is because he fawns as much over every girls. so that makes he disloyal, somehow.

Well, she can't really hate Renzou that much since she choose to trust him in the end.
Tsunderes are fun to tease, so I can't really blame him (I say this a a tsundere myself...). Most of the time when she seems angry at him, she probably just embarrassed.

maybe. but I dont think so.
like I said a while back, theres a difference in how she acts towards shima in comparison to rin.
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v09/c037.5/8.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v12/c047/36.html

why am I still posting. got to go get some sleep. . . its more profitable. sorry I dont make sense.

"while you were typing a new reply has been posted."? T T . . . screw this ¬¬

[Anya]

^ It's because I post much too much here.

if you want to say things like that, don’t quote me right before - ___- ‘’

Well, I was continuing what you said! Because I liked it, you know.

Thanks for posting pages with Renzou's flirting (that must've taken a lot of time to find). I also can't see a single picture she looks hurt after that. Well, no more than she looks usually, like when she needs to talk to anyone else than Paku.

His disloyalty doesn't seem to bother her either. If anything she probably finds it low that he flirts with everyone with boobs. That isn't exactly flattering to any of his targets. Another reason to not treat him seriously.

[NeeNee]

We're getting off topic, so I moved some of my answers here.

Exactly. Otherwise Izumo would have left. It's not about keeping her safe, it's about keeping her from leaving.

I'm repeating myself. How do you know what was better for her in that particular situation?

How do you know Shima was trying to do what was better for her in that particular situation?

I already admitted that we can't be 100% of his guilt yet, but you're acting as if the mere idea of questioning his actions is unreasonable. What makes you so totally convinced he's a good guy, after everything we've seen?

You can't see the pain in her eyes? Look at this pic again and tell me you see a happy girl there.

http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v09/c035/11.html

You mean the "Shut up, you creep" picture? Seriously??? I thought it was "I'll murder you" face.

It is.

Wait, you think "I'll murder you" face is a sign of a good relationship? People don't usually want to murder someone unless they're hurt or displeased.

I think there's cultural differences interfering with what we are saying. Where I live (California), kissy noises and catcalls are considered very disrespectful. Shitty "flirting", as you term it, is the sign of a male who can't act decently. I'm not sure how it is where you live.

Same, except women in such situations feel disguised not hurt. If the kissing noises are made by colleague you're on equal terms and you can tell him "shut up, you creep" whenever you please, he doesn't touch you, stalk you, come to your house and such. I suppose in US women hire lawyers whenever they hear someone kiss air in their general direction as they do when someone gives them hot tea not telling that hot may be hot.

Because feeling disgusted is so much better.

Also, the problem is that "shut up, you creep" didn't work to deter him.

Well, she can't really hate Renzou that much since she choose to trust him in the end.
Tsunderes are fun to tease, so I can't really blame him (I say this a a tsundere myself...). Most of the time when she seems angry at him, she probably just embarrassed.

Well said. There, looks like posters outside US have totally different point of view.

... No?

I'm with earthforge here. Calling after a girl after she made it clear she wants nothing to do with you is very disrespectful.

[chinonamida]

^
If its so wrong, then why no one, including you, never said anything about it before last chapter?

her stares and harsh rhetoric only means to not go any further, and thats what he does.
she doesnt want him to try to make a move, but she cant seriously want him to not even think about it.

she tells him "dont you dare come within a 2 m radius of me" then she is within a 2 m radius of him and look completly fine.
its clear she doesnt mind him as long as he keeps his thought for himself.

[NeeNee]

^
If its so wrong, then why no one, including you, never said anything about it before last chapter?

Because before last chapter, no-one on this site has ever been arguing that they Belong together.

I'm not saying they should throw Renzou in jail (well, not for that). But the Renzou x Izumo ship never stood much of a chance in my eyes, because it always looked completely one-sided to me. And with the added bonus of Renzou-the-backstabber, it has become even more unlikely (IMO).

[earthforge]

Betrayal cannot be easily forgiven, especially by someone who has been burned in the past.

Doesn't matter why he did it? Let's say he saved her life. Still doesn't count?

Not really, no. It's like kicking someone in the balls. Maybe it was for their own good, but they won't be happy with you. Forgiveness varies from person to person. I think Izumo is the least forgiving, and she has a good reason to not trust or love someone who has betrayed her once.

Many people fight rhetorically, romantically or physically for fun. In the immortal words of the classic song, "it's the eye of the tiger, the thrill of the fight".

Ok, now how do we know they're thrilled to fight each other and not because they genuinely can't stand and want to murder each other?

That is the question. Per what chino said, there's a lot more evidence to the latter. I was just explaining the theory behind the ship.

Same, except women in such situations feel disguised not hurt. If the kissing noises are made by colleague you're on equal terms and you can tell him "shut up, you creep" whenever you please, he doesn't touch you, stalk you, come to your house and such. I suppose in US women hire lawyers whenever they hear someone kiss air in their general direction as they do when someone gives them hot tea not telling that hot may be hot.

That's harassment here. Also -- don't insult the women of my country. That's like if I were to say that all Polish women are dirty sluts.

Izumo wasn't hurting or afraid -- she was disgusted. But Izumo can't control Renzou's pursuit, which can get downright disturbing because she can't deter him.

Can and may but never have since she has never been pained because of that.

How could she deter him permanently?

Well said. There, looks like posters outside US have totally different point of view.

Wow. Could you stop with the insinuations that all Americans think like me and NN, especially as I am one person in a rather liberal region and NN isn't even American?

. . .
I think izumo and ryuuji are truly not enjoying this.
when izumo mocked ryuuji’s goal to deafeat satan or the aria’s job, ryuuji wasn’t enjoying himself.
and when ryuuji told izumo her attitude will make everyone hates her, she wasn’t enjoying herself.
they say harmful things and they don’t say it for fun.

I concur. I realize I was stretching, but that's BonxIzumo for you. I find any Izumo ship other than RinxIzumo difficult to believe because Rin has been genuine with her.

renzou is a pervert alright. but most men are.

I'm not sure if you mean that. Generally the word "pervert" implies a tactless behavior. There's a difference between thinking "nice ass" and leering at a girl while saying "nice ass". One is normal and the other is disturbing, but again, culture differences.

the only reason she hates him flirting with her is because he fawns as much over every girls. so that makes he disloyal, somehow.

Could be.