Poll

Which pairings do you ship?

Rin/Shiemi
Rin/Izumo
Rin/Shura
Rin/Paku
Rin/a new girl
Yukio/Shiemi
Yukio/Shura
Izumo/Renzou
Izumo/Bon
Arthur/Shura
Arthur/Caliburn

Author Topic: Shipping Thread!  (Read 135950 times)

Offline jackolope

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #495 on: June 09, 2017, 09:49:53 PM »
I know its extremely unlikely that Izumo and Shiemi would ever become a couple
From the start I have been wondering why Shiemi tried very hard to be friend of only Izumo but not include Paku at that time...

Honestly. I love to interoperate it as Shiemi with a little baby lesbian crush- just like I used to go about the girls I had crushes on! Then Izumos complicated feelings about Shiemi and their scene crying together- its all too good to be true!

In all realness, like Shiemi literally fell on her knees and screamed with a bright red face because how happy she was Izumo was sleeping over at her house then was too happy she couldn't even taste anything. Thats called a crush.

I think it would be a wonderful way for her to sort out her complicated  feelings about platonic and romantic love with slowly discovering that her feelings for Izumo were actually romantic. I'd also love to see Rins face if Shiemi said she was in love with Izumo lmao.

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #496 on: June 10, 2017, 02:59:31 AM »
I think it would be a wonderful way for her to sort out her complicated  feelings about platonic and romantic love with slowly discovering that her feelings for Izumo were actually romantic.
The problem with gays, is the chances that the other person is also gay are slim, unless you knew he/she was in advance. If Shiemi's gay, it'd be great for her to finally realize it. But if she loves Izumo, it will most likely end up as unrequited love. Because if they both happen to be gay and discover it at the same time, it will need to be a pretty damn good heart warming story for the fans to accept it. Or it will end up like that complete failure of story telling in Avatar The Legend Of Korra.

I'd also love to see Rins face if Shiemi said she was in love with Izumo lmao.
If it's out of the blue, he'd be mainly surprised, I guess.
If he more or less witnessed the possible heart warming development of their love story, then I say he'd probably take it well and wish them to be happy.
But either way, as someone who confessed to her and was rejected, he'd probably have the usual reaction of "I see. So, I had no chance to begin with..."

---------------------------------

But no matter who Izumo ends up with, I just wish it will be someone with whom she can act like this:
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v06/c023.5/9.html

Offline earthforge

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #497 on: June 10, 2017, 04:28:25 PM »
^  It does feel like Izumo x Shiemi has been given a crapton of development though, mostly because their friendship is a cornerstone of both character's development arcs, and really well-done friendship arcs can feel more genuinely romantic than actual romance arcs. Heck, that's partly why Yukio x Shura is popular despite the obvious issues.

Out of the entire cast, Shiemi has been the most open with Izumo. Part of it was because Izumo's complex development. Shiemi's brightness and naivety contrasted with Izumo's initial nastiness and attempts to push away people. Now that Izumo has found resolution with how she cares for others and Shiemi has grown up a lot, they have the most positive interaction more than any other pair of characters. Unlike Rin and Shiemi who are very similar in their social interaction, Izumo and Shiemi challenge and complement each other socially. Izumo's more aggressive, while Rin and Shiemi are gentler and like to give space.

Still, I doubt Kato will go for Izumo x Shiemi, even though IMO they have the best romantic interaction out of any pair in the series. The next best pairs are Rin x Izumo and Renzou x Izumo.

I really have gained a new appreciation for Renzou x Izumo. I love how Izumo is both open with Renzou and not hesitant to kick his ass. She uses his "I thought we were similar" to remind him that he does care for others, he just likes to pretend he doesn't like she used to. Plus, I like the image of a scene of Izumo rescuing his butt if he gets in too deep, although giving him a good kick for acting lecherous.
"There are no answers. Only choices."

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #498 on: June 10, 2017, 06:16:58 PM »
^  It does feel like Izumo x Shiemi has been given a crapton of development though, mostly because their friendship is a cornerstone of both character's development arcs, and really well-done friendship arcs can feel more genuinely romantic than actual romance arcs. Heck, that's partly why Yukio x Shura is popular despite the obvious issues.
I don't agree. You know me. I think every steps towards friendship is one step away from romance. i.e. the stronger the friendship is, the more it starts to look like kinship, so the sexual attraction goes through the floor and the romantic mindset disappear.

Out of the entire cast, Shiemi has been the most open with Izumo.
Shiemi is pretty open with Paku too. But Paku seems like she's trying to strategically leave them alone to force Izumo to stop relying on her so much and make other friends. But because of that, Paku is not spending much time (outside of the classroom) with Shiemi, even though they seem to get along fairly well.

Unlike Rin and Shiemi who are very similar in their social interaction, Izumo and Shiemi challenge and complement each other socially. Izumo's more aggressive, while Rin and Shiemi are gentler and like to give space.
You seem to be forgetting again that Rin is often aggressive too. Also, Izumo can be pretty gentle when she wants, like I pointed out here, and like I said I wish she could be like this more often. Though Shiemi is overall gentle.

I believe sometimes it's good when partners are different and complement each other, but sometimes it's best when they're similar.
Because when you're in a relationship that seems to rest upon the fact that you're playing a complementary role, then I feel like it would feel like it's preventing you from changing.
Like (*overly simplifying things*) if Shiemi plays the role of the gentle one and Izumo plays the role of the aggressive one, then even if Izumo wants to become more gentle she might feel obliged not to, maybe to keep protecting Shiemi or something, and end up not being who she wants to be.

ha, got to go.

I really have gained a new appreciation for Renzou x Izumo. I love how Izumo is both open with Renzou and not hesitant to kick his ass. She uses his "I thought we were similar" to remind him that he does care for others, he just likes to pretend he doesn't like she used to. Plus, I like the image of a scene of Izumo rescuing his butt if he gets in too deep, although giving him a good kick for acting lecherous.
Coming back on that later, maybe.

EDIT: So, let's see... the last time I talked about that ship was quite a long time ago, but I don't think my opinion changed a lot, so I hope I won't repeat myself too much...

I like both Renzou and Izumo, I really do. And Renzou's feelings for Izumo look sincere to me, under all the lies and jests. If he had the chance to go out with her, I believe he would do his best to make her happy. He's often flirty and silly, but that doesn't make him a bad guy in my opinion. He's always complimenting, never insulting. And he's always asking or proposing, never really forceful or too insistent. But Izumo doesn't seem to share my opinion. As much as I think Renzou's feelings for Izumo look sincere, I think Izumo's aversion for Renzou's flirtiness and silliness look equally sincere. Renzou doesn't see that, because as he once stated, he likes Izumo being an icequeen. But she's not. She's a tsundere. Tsundere mellows down when they're with someone they love, they don't continue to relentlessly abuse them like icequeens do. So, it's not that I'm against this ship, but I just don't see it working, because Izumo never looked attracted to him, she even looks repulsed. I feel sorry for Renzou in all honesty.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 11:22:29 PM by chinonamida »

Offline jackolope

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #499 on: June 12, 2017, 06:21:45 AM »
I think it would be a wonderful way for her to sort out her complicated  feelings about platonic and romantic love with slowly discovering that her feelings for Izumo were actually romantic.
The problem with gays, is the chances that the other person is also gay are slim, unless you knew he/she was in advance. If Shiemi's gay, it'd be great for her to finally realize it. But if she loves Izumo, it will most likely end up as unrequited love. Because if they both happen to be gay and discover it at the same time, it will need to be a pretty damn good heart warming story for the fans to accept it. Or it will end up like that complete failure of story telling in Avatar The Legend Of Korra.

Unfortunately it is true. But you know what they say- lgbt kids usually flood together without even realizing it!

I talked mostly about Shiemi, but I like to interoperate Izumos own frustration with not being able to truly hate Shiemi and being able to open up to her is due to her having romantic feelings fot Shiemi as well. It could be a nice to see them help discover themselves- but it'd be a little out of place and I'm not sure straight people would be able to sympathize with them very easily if thats the case. It'd turn into "yeah, well, friendship is important too!" type situation.
^  It does feel like Izumo x Shiemi has been given a crapton of development though, mostly because their friendship is a cornerstone of both character's development arcs, and really well-done friendship arcs can feel more genuinely romantic than actual romance arcs. Heck, that's partly why Yukio x Shura is popular despite the obvious issues.

Out of the entire cast, Shiemi has been the most open with Izumo. Part of it was because Izumo's complex development. Shiemi's brightness and naivety contrasted with Izumo's initial nastiness and attempts to push away people. Now that Izumo has found resolution with how she cares for others and Shiemi has grown up a lot, they have the most positive interaction more than any other pair of characters. Unlike Rin and Shiemi who are very similar in their social interaction, Izumo and Shiemi challenge and complement each other socially. Izumo's more aggressive, while Rin and Shiemi are gentler and like to give space.

Still, I doubt Kato will go for Izumo x Shiemi, even though IMO they have the best romantic interaction out of any pair in the series. The next best pairs are Rin x Izumo and Renzou x Izumo.


This is really wonderful! Its all true, as well! Their friendship is very important, and your significant other being your best friend is something beautiful and lovely! Especially how much they've been able to build their relationship and grow together! I do also agree friendship can often come off as romance and romance often comes off as friendship. I wonder why haha!

They do compliment each other very nice! Even their appearences compliment each other- Shiemis light hair and eyes and Izumos dark hair and eyes! Even the short hair and long hair thing.

But yeah, again, its never meant to be. Shiemi and Izumo getting together isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Offline earthforge

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #500 on: June 12, 2017, 08:05:08 PM »
But yeah, again, its never meant to be. Shiemi and Izumo getting together isn't going to happen anytime soon.

That's what fanfic is for. :D

^  It does feel like Izumo x Shiemi has been given a crapton of development though, mostly because their friendship is a cornerstone of both character's development arcs, and really well-done friendship arcs can feel more genuinely romantic than actual romance arcs. Heck, that's partly why Yukio x Shura is popular despite the obvious issues.
I don't agree. You know me. I think every steps towards friendship is one step away from romance. i.e. the stronger the friendship is, the more it starts to look like kinship, so the sexual attraction goes through the floor and the romantic mindset disappear.

Yup, we have very different views on what constitutes a friendship versus a relationship. I stand by how a lot of other people feel friendships are more romantic in a lot of media than the legit romances. I think it's because friendships can't use the traditional tropes of romance, and as a result the interaction becomes more interesting and meaningful and thus a base for a romance. For example, Hawkeye and Black Widow have a deep friendship that was read more as romance in the Avengers before that ship got sunk.

Shiemi is pretty open with Paku too. But Paku seems like she's trying to strategically leave them alone to force Izumo to stop relying on her so much and make other friends. But because of that, Paku is not spending much time (outside of the classroom) with Shiemi, even though they seem to get along fairly well.

Paku and Shiemi have stereotypical classmate chit-chat. Izumo's avoidance of those topics makes her connection to Shiemi (and Paku) less platonic-appearing.

Also, Izumo can be pretty gentle when she wants, like I pointed out here, and like I said I wish she could be like this more often. Though Shiemi is overall gentle.
I believe sometimes it's good when partners are different and complement each other, but sometimes it's best when they're similar.
Because when you're in a relationship that seems to rest upon the fact that you're playing a complementary role, then I feel like it would feel like it's preventing you from changing.

Good point. Still, I think Izumo actually does like to be more rough and tumble. Since her past has been mostly resolved, she has softened but remains comically (like her speech that a real human has to know about love) and directly aggressive (her passionate defense of Shiemi's talent in becoming an exorcist to Shiemi's mom). If she really wanted to be more gentle, she could be. Nothing's holding her back. Instead, she's direct and firm, channeling her energies to caring for her friends. I think she's exactly who she wants to be right now, a good balance between gentle and aggressive.

But Izumo doesn't seem to share my opinion. As much as I think Renzou's feelings for Izumo look sincere, I think Izumo's aversion for Renzou's flirtiness and silliness look equally sincere. Renzou doesn't see that, because as he once stated, he likes Izumo being an icequeen. But she's not. She's a tsundere. Tsundere mellows down when they're with someone they love, they don't continue to relentlessly abuse them like icequeens do. So, it's not that I'm against this ship, but I just don't see it working, because Izumo never looked attracted to him, she even looks repulsed. I feel sorry for Renzou in all honesty.

I actually disagree. In their only one-on-one interaction since the Inari arc (here), Izumo doesn't outright call him a creep like she did before. She generally sees through his joking around. The best moment is when Renzou tries to play his "that's how you differ from me" over Izumo being open about how she cares for her friends, and Izumo just throws back how they are the same and Renzou really cares about them too. While Izumo doesn't like his annoying and deceptive behavior, she sees it as a front. She fundamentally knows he cares for them and she cares about him too, which is why she asked him to be careful in the tough times ahead. That's a great foundation for her developing feelings for him, especially if Renzou ends up leaning more towards his friends as the situation with the Illuminati gets precarious. The closer the Illuminati get to their goal, the less they will need Renzou. Eventually they'll turn on him, and I really want to see Izumo and Renzou fighting side-by-side.
"There are no answers. Only choices."

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #501 on: June 13, 2017, 06:06:49 AM »
I stand by how a lot of other people feel friendships are more romantic in a lot of media than the legit romances. I think it's because friendships can't use the traditional tropes of romance, and as a result the interaction becomes more interesting and meaningful and thus a base for a romance. For example, Hawkeye and Black Widow have a deep friendship that was read more as romance in the Avengers before that ship got sunk.
I don't know much about Hawkeye and Black Widow. But if we take Lord of the Rings for example, I was way more interested in Aragorn's relationships with Legolas and Gimli than his relationships with Arwen and Eowyn. But I didn't ship Aragorn with Legolas nor Gimli.... What I mean is, I can agree friendships are sometimes more well written than romantic relationships, but I don't know if I'd say they're more romantic. Then again, maybe you're referring to these cases where characters have ambiguous relationships, like Nausicaa and Asbel from Valley of the Wind, where some fans think they're in love while some others think their friends or just friends. But this is done on purpose by the authors, so that all the fans can believe what they want. And this is not only done with characters of opposite genders, for example, CLAMP admittedly likes doing that a lot.

Shiemi is pretty open with Paku too. But Paku seems like she's trying to strategically leave them alone to force Izumo to stop relying on her so much and make other friends. But because of that, Paku is not spending much time (outside of the classroom) with Shiemi, even though they seem to get along fairly well.
Paku and Shiemi have stereotypical classmate chit-chat. Izumo's avoidance of those topics makes her connection to Shiemi (and Paku) less platonic-appearing.
Those topics?

I think Izumo actually does like to be more rough and tumble. Since her past has been mostly resolved, she has softened but remains comically (like her speech that a real human has to know about love) and directly aggressive (her passionate defense of Shiemi's talent in becoming an exorcist to Shiemi's mom). If she really wanted to be more gentle, she could be. Nothing's holding her back. Instead, she's direct and firm, channeling her energies to caring for her friends. I think she's exactly who she wants to be right now, a good balance between gentle and aggressive.
But then, why are there so many scenes (mostly in the extra I admit) where Izumo acts drastically differently when there's no one around, even sometimes making sure there is no one around?

People don't change so easily. To me, she still often seems to act harshly only because that's the only way she knows how to react more than that's what she thinks is the appropriate response. But of course it's hard to know, because she's also bad at apologizing.

Maybe you're right. But I think she still has some ways to go and things she wants to improve about herself; which isn't a risky bet given her age and experience.

But Izumo doesn't seem to share my opinion. As much as I think Renzou's feelings for Izumo look sincere, I think Izumo's aversion for Renzou's flirtiness and silliness look equally sincere. Renzou doesn't see that, because as he once stated, he likes Izumo being an icequeen. But she's not. She's a tsundere. Tsundere mellows down when they're with someone they love, they don't continue to relentlessly abuse them like icequeens do. So, it's not that I'm against this ship, but I just don't see it working, because Izumo never looked attracted to him, she even looks repulsed. I feel sorry for Renzou in all honesty.
I actually disagree. In their only one-on-one interaction since the Inari arc (here), Izumo doesn't outright call him a creep like she did before. She generally sees through his joking around. The best moment is when Renzou tries to play his "that's how you differ from me" over Izumo being open about how she cares for her friends, and Izumo just throws back how they are the same and Renzou really cares about them too. While Izumo doesn't like his annoying and deceptive behavior, she sees it as a front. She fundamentally knows he cares for them and she cares about him too, which is why she asked him to be careful in the tough times ahead. That's a great foundation for her developing feelings for him, especially if Renzou ends up leaning more towards his friends as the situation with the Illuminati gets precarious. The closer the Illuminati get to their goal, the less they will need Renzou. Eventually they'll turn on him, and I really want to see Izumo and Renzou fighting side-by-side.
So you agree she doesn't have feelings for him right now? X)

I agree with most of what you said, but that could be the foundation for friendship or professional relationship instead of romantic relationship, or at least that's what it seems to me. She looks so cold there, not only cold but annoyed too. Even if she was an icequeen I wouldn't believe she has romantic interests for him.

Offline tandem

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #502 on: June 14, 2017, 10:38:28 AM »
I don't know much about Hawkeye and Black Widow. But if we take Lord of the Rings for example, I was way more interested in Aragorn's relationships with Legolas and Gimli than his relationships with Arwen and Eowyn. But I didn't ship Aragorn with Legolas nor Gimli.... What I mean is, I can agree friendships are sometimes more well written than romantic relationships, but I don't know if I'd say they're more romantic. Then again, maybe you're referring to these cases where characters have ambiguous relationships, like Nausicaa and Asbel from Valley of the Wind, where some fans think they're in love while some others think their friends or just friends. But this is done on purpose by the authors, so that all the fans can believe what they want.
just realized how many ships Aragorn was simultaneously on

I guess the director intend to let the audience imagine Hawkeye and Black Widow might have something, so it's more like your second type (Nausicaa and Asbel)

Also, Izumo can be pretty gentle when she wants, like I pointed out here, and like I said I wish she could be like this more often. Though Shiemi is overall gentle.
I believe sometimes it's good when partners are different and complement each other, but sometimes it's best when they're similar.
Because when you're in a relationship that seems to rest upon the fact that you're playing a complementary role, then I feel like it would feel like it's preventing you from changing.

Good point. Still, I think Izumo actually does like to be more rough and tumble. Since her past has been mostly resolved, she has softened but remains comically (like her speech that a real human has to know about love) and directly aggressive (her passionate defense of Shiemi's talent in becoming an exorcist to Shiemi's mom). If she really wanted to be more gentle, she could be. Nothing's holding her back. Instead, she's direct and firm, channeling her energies to caring for her friends. I think she's exactly who she wants to be right now, a good balance between gentle and aggressive.
I don't feel like Izumo's attitude was really tsundere at the start of the series. In my opinion she was also exactly who she wanted to be. At first she thought Shiemi was challenging her in the tamer class. Then she thought Shiemi was annoying. In her first conflict with Bon, she was actually regard Aria as weak. Then in the second conflict on the train, she was actually regard their attitude to Rin as harsh. She was sincere at those scenes. We also saw Izumo was always nice to Paku, and she was also nice to Rin after he rescued her. So I don't think she choose to change her attitude to become generally softer, instead she realized she is not alone and they are actually nice guys, so she regret and changed her attitude to them. I don't think she changes her attitude to people besides the exwires.

Renzou's feelings for Izumo look sincere to me, under all the lies and jests. If he had the chance to go out with her, I believe he would do his best to make her happy. He's often flirty and silly, but that doesn't make him a bad guy in my opinion. He's always complimenting, never insulting. And he's always asking or proposing, never really forceful or too insistent.
But Izumo doesn't seem to share my opinion. As much as I think Renzou's feelings for Izumo look sincere, I think Izumo's aversion for Renzou's flirtiness and silliness look equally sincere. Renzou doesn't see that, because as he once stated, he likes Izumo being an icequeen. But she's not. She's a tsundere. Tsundere mellows down when they're with someone they love, they don't continue to relentlessly abuse them like icequeens do. So, it's not that I'm against this ship, but I just don't see it working, because Izumo never looked attracted to him, she even looks repulsed. I feel sorry for Renzou in all honesty.
I actually disagree. In their only one-on-one interaction since the Inari arc (here), Izumo doesn't outright call him a creep like she did before. She generally sees through his joking around. The best moment is when Renzou tries to play his "that's how you differ from me" over Izumo being open about how she cares for her friends, and Izumo just throws back how they are the same and Renzou really cares about them too. While Izumo doesn't like his annoying and deceptive behavior, she sees it as a front. She fundamentally knows he cares for them and she cares about him too, which is why she asked him to be careful in the tough times ahead. That's a great foundation for her developing feelings for him, especially if Renzou ends up leaning more towards his friends as the situation with the Illuminati gets precarious. The closer the Illuminati get to their goal, the less they will need Renzou. Eventually they'll turn on him, and I really want to see Izumo and Renzou fighting side-by-side.
So you agree she doesn't have feelings for him right now? X)

I agree with most of what you said, but that could be the foundation for friendship or professional relationship instead of romantic relationship, or at least that's what it seems to me. She looks so cold there, not only cold but annoyed too. Even if she was an icequeen I wouldn't believe she has romantic interests for him.
I think both of them are not attracted to each other and are already in friendship or professional but non-romantic relationship. Although Renzou likes to go out with her and always complimenting and never really forceful, I don't see it's any different from his attitude to other girls, so I wouldn't say he is sincere to her. Therefore I also don't see Izumo repulsed him since he is not sincere from the start.

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #503 on: June 14, 2017, 07:40:17 PM »
I don't feel like Izumo's attitude was really tsundere at the start of the series. In my opinion she was also exactly who she wanted to be. At first she thought Shiemi was challenging her in the tamer class. Then she thought Shiemi was annoying. In her first conflict with Bon, she was actually regard Aria as weak. Then in the second conflict on the train, she was actually regard their attitude to Rin as harsh. She was sincere at those scenes. We also saw Izumo was always nice to Paku, and she was also nice to Rin after he rescued her. So I don't think she choose to change her attitude to become generally softer, instead she realized she is not alone and they are actually nice guys, so she regret and changed her attitude to them. I don't think she changes her attitude to people besides the exwires.
Her actions were not completely insincere, but they were insincere in a way. Like in the train, she wanted to defend Rin and wanted everyone to get along, but when Rin thanked her, she said she only did it because their attitudes pissed her off. Same as when she gave Rin back his shirt and he said something like "thanks, you even washed it and all", all she could say back was something like "that's because it was so dirty". As for when she argued with Ryuuji about Aria, she was arguing that people should learn how to fight alone and not rely on others, but when Ryuuji told her she will really end up alone if she stays like this, she looked like it hit her hard. And with Shiemi, in the tamer class she was jealous of how cute and friendly Nii-san was and how Shiemi stole her spotlight, so she complimented her and her summon in a sarcastic way making it an insult (even though Shiemi just took it as a compliment). As for the rest, Izumo was annoyed by Shiemi because she was jealous of how very sincere Shiemi is. Izumo can't bring herself to be completely sincere and that's what makes her a Tsundere. Remember, that's also what Paku told her the night of the festival; to try and be more sincere.

I think both of them are not attracted to each other and are already in friendship or professional but non-romantic relationship. Although Renzou likes to go out with her and always complimenting and never really forceful, I don't see it's any different from his attitude to other girls, so I wouldn't say he is sincere to her. Therefore I also don't see Izumo repulsed him since he is not sincere from the start.
Izumo doesn't like him precisely because she thinks that. That it's all just an act and that he does the same to every girls. That's part of being flirty and silly or fooling around.
But I think he's sincere because of that one scene during the Inari arc after she slapped him.

I know two people who are a lot like Renzou in that regard, so I know.That's one of my brothers, and one of my childhood friends who is now going out with that girl I ended up going out with before him. That's actually an interesting story, he was always complimenting her and asking her out, but he did so in such a ... theatrical way, that she never believed he was being serious. One day I just offhandedly asked her out and she accepted. After a few years of not getting along we broke up. And after a few years of not hearing from her I learned they were getting married. I suppose she should just have gone out with him from the start. X)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 07:43:38 PM by chinonamida »

Offline xyzt

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #504 on: June 14, 2017, 08:10:08 PM »
I don't feel like Izumo's attitude was really tsundere at the start of the series. In my opinion she was also exactly who she wanted to be. At first she thought Shiemi was challenging her in the tamer class. Then she thought Shiemi was annoying. In her first conflict with Bon, she was actually regard Aria as weak. Then in the second conflict on the train, she was actually regard their attitude to Rin as harsh. She was sincere at those scenes. We also saw Izumo was always nice to Paku, and she was also nice to Rin after he rescued her. So I don't think she choose to change her attitude to become generally softer, instead she realized she is not alone and they are actually nice guys, so she regret and changed her attitude to them. I don't think she changes her attitude to people besides the exwires.
Her actions were not completely insincere, but they were insincere in a way. Like in the train, she wanted to defend Rin and wanted everyone to get along, but when Rin thanked her, she said she only did it because their attitudes pissed her off. Same as when she gave Rin back his shirt and he said something like "thanks, you even washed it and all", all she could say back was something like "that's because it was so dirty". As for when she argued with Ryuuji about Aria, she was arguing that people should learn how to fight alone and not rely on others, but when Ryuuji told her she will really end up alone if she stays like this, she looked like it hit her hard. And with Shiemi, in the tamer class she was jealous of how cute and friendly Nii-san was and how Shiemi stole her spotlight, so she complimented her and her summon in a sarcastic way making it an insult (even though Shiemi just took it as a compliment). As for the rest, Izumo was annoyed by Shiemi because she was jealous of how very sincere Shiemi is. Izumo can't bring herself to be completely sincere and that's what makes her a Tsundere. Remember, that's also what Paku told her the night of the festival; to try and be more sincere.

I think both of them are not attracted to each other and are already in friendship or professional but non-romantic relationship. Although Renzou likes to go out with her and always complimenting and never really forceful, I don't see it's any different from his attitude to other girls, so I wouldn't say he is sincere to her. Therefore I also don't see Izumo repulsed him since he is not sincere from the start.
Izumo doesn't like him precisely because she thinks that. That it's all just an act and that he does the same to every girls. That's part of being flirty and silly or fooling around.
But I think he's sincere because of that one scene during the Inari arc after she slapped him.

I know two people who are a lot like Renzou in that regard, so I know.That's one of my brothers, and one of my childhood friends who is now going out with that girl I ended up going out with before him. That's actually an interesting story, he was always complimenting her and asking her out, but he did so in such a ... theatrical way, that she never believed he was being serious. One day I just offhandedly asked her out and she accepted. After a few years of not getting along we broke up. And after a few years of not hearing from her I learned they were getting married. I suppose she should just have gone out with him from the start. X)

Given that the last time Izumo and Renzo were together, Renzo both literally and figuratively stabbed her in the back, I dont think Izumo is cold towards him just because he is annoying. Izumo said it herself that she hasnt forgiven him for the deception and it is fair considering he hasnt done anything to redeem himself in her eyes. This was a girl who had severe trust issues due to her past and Renzo betrayed her in what could probably be the worst way possible. I honestly dont think Renzo even remotely expects or believes that his feelings will be returned since he is (hopefully) not that stupid and realises that his actions fall really close to the realm of unforgivable for her. Given that after all this she still holds some level of concern for him is really generous of her.

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #505 on: June 14, 2017, 09:16:32 PM »
Given that the last time Izumo and Renzo were together, Renzo both literally and figuratively stabbed her in the back, I dont think Izumo is cold towards him just because he is annoying. Izumo said it herself that she hasnt forgiven him for the deception and it is fair considering he hasnt done anything to redeem himself in her eyes. This was a girl who had severe trust issues due to her past and Renzo betrayed her in what could probably be the worst way possible. I honestly dont think Renzo even remotely expects or believes that his feelings will be returned since he is (hopefully) not that stupid and realises that his actions fall really close to the realm of unforgivable for her. Given that after all this she still holds some level of concern for him is really generous of her.
I knew someone would mention that eventually.

I think Renzou thought she would forgive him. He thought she trusted no one and therefore wouldn't be surprised by his betrayal. He also thought she didn't care for the order and the other exwires, so she wouldn't mind him betraying them. (And to be fair, even Izumo thought those two things before realizing she was wrong and slapped Renzou across the face.) The only thing that would be left to forgive at that time, was him bringing her back to Inari without her consent; which, on it's own, she could have forgiven, I mean, it's not unforgivable considering he didn't know how she was being treated there and once he did, he tried to help her get out of it as much as he could.

Though I agree it's clear she hasn't forgiven him.

But regardless, for the part of my analysis that is based on things that happened before those events, they become irrelevant.

Offline Taytronics7

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #506 on: June 15, 2017, 01:12:30 PM »





I actually disagree. In their only one-on-one interaction since the Inari arc (here), Izumo doesn't outright call him a creep like she did before. She generally sees through his joking around. The best moment is when Renzou tries to play his "that's how you differ from me" over Izumo being open about how she cares for her friends, and Izumo just throws back how they are the same and Renzou really cares about them too. While Izumo doesn't like his annoying and deceptive behavior, she sees it as a front. She fundamentally knows he cares for them and she cares about him too, which is why she asked him to be careful in the tough times ahead. That's a great foundation for her developing feelings for him, especially if Renzou ends up leaning more towards his friends as the situation with the Illuminati gets precarious. The closer the Illuminati get to their goal, the less they will need Renzou. Eventually they'll turn on him, and I really want to see Izumo and Renzou fighting side-by-side.

I agree with earthforge here. I believe that Renzou and Izumo have the potential to be a good couple. Both are very similar in their natures (like how Rin and Shiemi are similar). Renzou just needs to open up more to Izumo about how he feels.   

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #507 on: June 15, 2017, 06:04:30 PM »
^Well, maybe I'm wrong or maybe I'm right but some major development will happen. But if they do end up together, I hope she will never hit him. We can all agree he doesn't like it and he's got enough from his family.

And I wonder, do you guys think he'd never hit back? If he does, it's bad because she's weaker, but if she doesn't, it's bad because he can't defend himself.
At least with his brothers he can hit back. Even though he usually doesn't. Since he doesn't have a violent nature.

Men aren't made of steel you know. X)

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Offline earthforge

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #508 on: June 15, 2017, 06:32:58 PM »
One of the reasons I liked her most recent talk with Renzou is that, even though she was annoyed, she never hit or insulted him. I hope that development is permanent. (Except for times when they have to fight because he has to do some work on behalf of the Illuminati.)

Agreed that the female-on-male violence double standard is the worst.

What I mean is, I can agree friendships are sometimes more well written than romantic relationships, but I don't know if I'd say they're more romantic. Then again, maybe you're referring to these cases where characters have ambiguous relationships, like Nausicaa and Asbel from Valley of the Wind, where some fans think they're in love while some others think their friends or just friends. But this is done on purpose by the authors, so that all the fans can believe what they want. And this is not only done with characters of opposite genders, for example, CLAMP admittedly likes doing that a lot.

I mean, it's not necessarily more romantic. It's just that people read romance into more interesting interactions. You can only see the same Meet Cute high-school set-up of a girl with a piece of toast in her mouth enough times before you get sick of it (except for the Fullmetal Alchemist short with Izumi meeting her husband XD).

People don't change so easily. To me, she still often seems to act harshly only because that's the only way she knows how to react more than that's what she thinks is the appropriate response. But of course it's hard to know, because she's also bad at apologizing.

Maybe you're right. But I think she still has some ways to go and things she wants to improve about herself; which isn't a risky bet given her age and experience.

True. Izumo is much more relaxed compared to Mamushi, so she could get much gentler. I see the framework for that, given her nice conversation with Bon in the chapter where he meets Lightning.

But Izumo doesn't seem to share my opinion. As much as I think Renzou's feelings for Izumo look sincere, I think Izumo's aversion for Renzou's flirtiness and silliness look equally sincere. Renzou doesn't see that, because as he once stated, he likes Izumo being an icequeen. But she's not. She's a tsundere. Tsundere mellows down when they're with someone they love, they don't continue to relentlessly abuse them like icequeens do. So, it's not that I'm against this ship, but I just don't see it working, because Izumo never looked attracted to him, she even looks repulsed. I feel sorry for Renzou in all honesty.
I actually disagree. In their only one-on-one interaction since the Inari arc (here), Izumo doesn't outright call him a creep like she did before. She generally sees through his joking around. The best moment is when Renzou tries to play his "that's how you differ from me" over Izumo being open about how she cares for her friends, and Izumo just throws back how they are the same and Renzou really cares about them too. While Izumo doesn't like his annoying and deceptive behavior, she sees it as a front. She fundamentally knows he cares for them and she cares about him too, which is why she asked him to be careful in the tough times ahead. That's a great foundation for her developing feelings for him, especially if Renzou ends up leaning more towards his friends as the situation with the Illuminati gets precarious. The closer the Illuminati get to their goal, the less they will need Renzou. Eventually they'll turn on him, and I really want to see Izumo and Renzou fighting side-by-side.
So you agree she doesn't have feelings for him right now? X)

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Offline NeeNee

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #509 on: June 15, 2017, 07:51:36 PM »
Agreed that the female-on-male violence double standard is the worst.

Is there really a rule that says you can't hit girls though? Because as I see it, it depends more on which kind of hit is being used.

1) When someone slaps you in the face with the palm of their hand, they're making a statement. They are letting you know that you have severely offened/angered them. This is more often used by females (on male and female), but it can also be done by males, like Shiro hitting Rin in the face in the first chapter. It is meant to hurt but not to injure; it is not an invitation to start a fight. Do not hit back.

2) When someone punches you in the face with their fist, they're picking a fight. Go ahead and hit back if you want. The only exception here is if a woman (or a man, for that matter) is punching you in defence because you cornered/grabbed her or something. But if a girl socks you in the jaw out of the blue, I certainly wouldn't blame you for returning the favor.