Poll

Which pairings do you ship?

Rin/Shiemi
Rin/Izumo
Rin/Shura
Rin/Paku
Rin/a new girl
Yukio/Shiemi
Yukio/Shura
Izumo/Renzou
Izumo/Bon
Arthur/Shura
Arthur/Caliburn

Author Topic: Shipping Thread!  (Read 136135 times)

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #450 on: July 11, 2016, 02:20:50 AM »
Everyone's special NeeNee, everyone's special.

Offline echo

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #451 on: July 11, 2016, 02:34:02 AM »
Aww, you got me. That is TOTALLY why I read manga. I go around every day telling people how special I am because of it.


Offline earthforge

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #452 on: July 11, 2016, 03:40:00 AM »
Aww, you got me. That is TOTALLY why I read manga. I go around every day telling people how special I am because of it.

It's okay, echo. NN is referring to the general public not being privy to honorific differences. It does cause difficulty in gaining an initial audience. Although I tend to agree with you. There's a lot of information in the slight nuances and I personally prefer 'em.

At the same time, it can be difficult for people to read. I think the only reason I can tolerate it is because I've been reading scanlations since I was 11 (celebrating ten years of fandom!). It's like why some people find Marvel comics difficult to read - the style conveys a lot of nuance, and it takes a while to really get into it.

Whether a translation is more or less accurate doesn't matter in the end. The best is when there's multiple translations to read and enjoy

Everyone's special NeeNee, everyone's special.

I should totally print this on a T-shirt.
"There are no answers. Only choices."

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #453 on: July 11, 2016, 04:06:59 AM »
Aww, you got me. That is TOTALLY why I read manga. I go around every day telling people how special I am because of it.

I wish it was as dumb as you make it sound, but... you'd be surprised how many people actually consider themselves special for reading manga. A good part of them don't even want manga becoming more popular (even though this would mean more series to enjoy), because then it wouldn't be an exclusive niche hobby anymore. Go figure. :-\

Offline echo

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #454 on: July 11, 2016, 04:34:43 AM »
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Whether a translation is more or less accurate doesn't matter in the end. The best is when there's multiple translations to read and enjoy.


Totally agree, its really cool to see different translations + interpretations and know that they all came out of the same source text (if that makes sense).

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I think the only reason I can tolerate it is because I've been reading scanlations since I was 11 (celebrating ten years of fandom!).
Grats on ten years! For me, it was ancient Sailor Moon fanfics, liberally peppered with random Japanese phrases and names that were sometimes very different from the dubbed anime that I started on. I didn't find scanlations til way later. 

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #455 on: July 11, 2016, 04:09:49 PM »
Aww, you got me. That is TOTALLY why I read manga. I go around every day telling people how special I am because of it.
I wish it was as dumb as you make it sound, but... you'd be surprised how many people actually consider themselves special for reading manga. A good part of them don't even want manga becoming more popular (even though this would mean more series to enjoy), because then it wouldn't be an exclusive niche hobby anymore. Go figure. :-\
I don't see why people wouldn't want more people to like the same thing they like. But I can see why they wouldn't want the thing they like being watered down to appeal to more people.


It's like if judo became so popular in the west that every school would have their own team and every town would have their competitions. But people in the west would be embarrassed to wear dogi because they think it looks or feels strange so they'd wear normal sports clothing. Then traditional fan would protest saying in judo you need to wear dogi because you need to grab the opponents clothes in a way that doesn't work with most normal sports clothing. Would you say these traditional fans want judo to stay an exclusive niche hobby or would you say they just want judo to stay judo no matter how many people play it?

Offline justicecadet

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #456 on: July 13, 2016, 05:17:49 AM »
Well, I'm a translator in real life (not of manga though) and I can tell you translators are humans, they can be flawed and they can make mistakes.
Though, if put in a simple way, there's usually two types of translators: the ones who tries to be as loyal as possible to the source text even if it makes the target text seem unnatural and the ones who tries to make the target text as natural as possible even if it makes it disloyal to the source text.
Translators are often asked to be the latter. Since the publishing houses often decide the target audience doesn't care about the loyalty to the source text as much as the fluidity of the target text. And eerily enough, a lot of translators happily comply.
But I like many others see this often leads in increasingly disloyal, lazy and rushed translations.

There's a french term for this, they call it the "belles infidèles" in reference to women "who are beautiful but always cheat". Critics on promiscuous women aside, I think that's a fine way to put it.
I saw this article and thought of this.
I'm not a professional but when I translate I tend to be very literal and more knowledge based. But I can see why localizing is more popular. Or if I read something based in a language/culture I know little about it does help me when they dumb it down or just localize it completely. I don't think localizers are more rushed but I think sometimes there is a lack of foresight. They need to guess what's going to be relevant later or if there is a hidden meaning. Although I am skeptical of translators bias (when you can tell a translator favors a ship or character).^(haha speaking of such I though the english translation I saw of ch80 really made Toudou's comment very platonic).

I like Suguro/Izumo and I saw it having potential in the beginning but they haven't interacted in such a long time. Oh well time to fall back on ShieIzu.
Saying Toudou's name summons me

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #457 on: July 13, 2016, 09:45:27 PM »
I saw this article and thought of this.
I knew about the term "traduttore traditore", but I dislike it since people usually use it to say all translators are traitors and all translations are treasons.
While "belles infidèles" is how people call translations they think are too disloyal for the sake of beauty or fluidity.

I haven't read all of the article but, before I reply to your post, I'll reply to some of the things Kate Gray wrote.

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Accusations of censorship are particularly loud at the moment.
That's because there is a lot of censorship.

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"A good localisation... will be truer to the intentions of the original creators than a strict translation," says Ace Attorney translator Janet Hsu. "By allowing a Western player to be entertained by it in the same way the creators intended their Japanese players to be entertained by the original – you're laughing at the same points, and crying your eyes out at the same points, too."
The most important thing I have against translators that does "localisation" is they assume too many things about their target audience based only on the fact that they all use the same language. People use English all around the world but have vastly different cultural backgrounds.

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There will always be differences – linguistic, cultural and otherwise – between countries, just as there are between eras. It is a localisation team's job to bridge these differences so that people can share and delight in the same things, in roughly the same way. Even though their work can often change the meaning and setting of a game in such a way that it ends up being quite different from the original, I still see localisation as being something that can bring people closer. It means that people who don't speak the same languages have a shared connection through being able to love something together. Localisation is a tough, taxing and often thankless job, but it's because of their work that we can enjoy games that otherwise would have been lost to us.
I think what brings fans of Japanese works together are their common knowledge of Japanese pop culture.
If you take too much of these elements away from the works you're translating, you are cutting bridges not building them.

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It takes a lot of work to find out the differences between the original and the translation – years of study in the language and an in-depth knowledge of the country and its culture. Sadly, we can't all speak other languages fluently. And yes, it sounds harsh to say that you should either learn a language or learn to appreciate a translation, along with all its flaws and downsides, but it's true.
No, it's wrong.
You don't need in-depth knowledge of the language and culture to understand what are the japanese honorifics or what a bento box is.
There is a golden-mean. If you are too lazy to try and find it, you can go ahead and change everything, but don't cry when I say your translation is bad.

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Translation is never, ever perfect. The translator will always be a traitor, and the best thing they can do is what they're already trying to do – offer you a different, but still enjoyable piece of entertainment. They might be traitors, but at least they're on your side.
Don't lump me together with them please.

I'm not a professional but when I translate I tend to be very literal and more knowledge based. But I can see why localizing is more popular. Or if I read something based in a language/culture I know little about it does help me when they dumb it down or just localize it completely.
At some point the best is to have many translations. But we're not always that fortunate...

I don't think localizers are more rushed but I think sometimes there is a lack of foresight. They need to guess what's going to be relevant later or if there is a hidden meaning.
Some of them think about the repercussions of their changes but some of them don't. And that's if the translator didn't change in between those times.

But while a more literal translator might spend sleepless hours thinking about how to translate one especially tricky sentence, a pro-localisation one may very likely just go ahead and change it to something completely different without a second thought. Their imagination is sometimes admirable, but I still don't think that's what they should be doing.

Although I am skeptical of translators bias (when you can tell a translator favors a ship or character).
Yeah, that's a difficult matter especially because people often don't see their own bias.

I always try to talk to many fans and non-fans to see different points of view.

^(haha speaking of such I though the english translation I saw of ch80 really made Toudou's comment very platonic).
That's a shame. What did they write?

Offline earthforge

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #458 on: July 13, 2016, 09:55:29 PM »
^(haha speaking of such I though the english translation I saw of ch80 really made Toudou's comment very platonic).
That's a shame. What did they write?

In the Viz translation, Toudou simply said "I like that kid... and look forward to seeing him again". Mild af.

Ironically, I think the "I'm interested in you" and "why do you reject me so harshly" in chapter 32 sounded much more non-platonic in English.
"There are no answers. Only choices."

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #459 on: July 13, 2016, 10:10:47 PM »
^That is mild, but not that bad. Though I would have wrote "Besides, I love that guy you see. So I'm really looking forward to be able to see him again. Work hard on that."

Offline justicecadet

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #460 on: July 14, 2016, 03:11:26 AM »
^(haha speaking of such I though the english translation I saw of ch80 really made Toudou's comment very platonic).
That's a shame. What did they write?

In the Viz translation, Toudou simply said "I like that kid... and look forward to seeing him again". Mild af.

Ironically, I think the "I'm interested in you" and "why do you reject me so harshly" in chapter 32 sounded much more non-platonic in English.
the funny thing is that i think a more literal translation works well for the ambiguity. just "I like him." "that kid" is like... old man Toudou who lives down the street, or uncle Toudou.... it was the no-homo tagline. they can't crush my fujoshi dreams anymore.

@chino
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But while a more literal translator might spend sleepless hours thinking about how to translate one especially tricky sentence, a pro-localisation one may very likely just go ahead and change it to something completely different without a second thought. Their imagination is sometimes admirable, but I still don't think that's what they should be doing.
I try to stay middle ground on the topic. some content really isn't that deserving of "sleepless nights" though haha. I hope they put more care into monthly manga but I can't imagine stressing too much about weeklies.
i kind of like the idea that translators are traitors. not in a bad way? but in the way that, each language is different so you're going to have to change something or something won't sound quite right even if it is technically right. it'll never quite be the same as the source material.
Saying Toudou's name summons me

Offline ToonamiRaid

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #461 on: July 14, 2016, 04:10:13 AM »
Oh wow it is now a tie between Shiemi and Izumo!

Offline chinonamida

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #462 on: July 14, 2016, 05:00:21 AM »
some content really isn't that deserving of "sleepless nights" though haha.
Well, when I talk about the more literal kind of translators, I think about the ones I know. And they're not translating manga or video games. They're translating history books or business documents.
I'm not sure how much some works "deserve" more or less care than the others. Maybe my standards are too high across the board. But I'm the kind of guy who's always trying his best in everything, until I quit that is.

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i kind of like the idea that translators are traitors. not in a bad way? but in the way that, each language is different so you're going to have to change something or something won't sound quite right even if it is technically right. it'll never quite be the same as the source material.
Of course it can't be the exact same.
But some people are using this as an excuse to do whatever they want. I don't agree with that.

Offline gokusdonut

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #463 on: July 14, 2016, 03:48:47 PM »
I'm really ready for more Rin/Shiemi development. How are they going to interact after Ch. 73? Will Shiemi finally be able to tell the difference between liking people platonically and liking people romantically? I want so much more from them! This has been the only shounen couple that has everything I could ever ask for. This is a friends-to-lovers trope done right, imo. Please, don't disappoint me Kazue Kato! I've had far too many disappointments with shounen mangaka and their handling of couples.

I'm ready for more (like the anime, where I can see the ryokan scene again, omg). Besides, they're supposed to go back to the amusement park together.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 03:51:11 PM by gokusdonut »

Offline kirarin

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Re: Shipping Thread!
« Reply #464 on: July 16, 2016, 11:55:37 AM »
honestly i hope nothing changes. it'll be a really annoying thing to read if all that blushing/stuttering continues. that's why i do wish the characters get to be more mature before heading to the ship department. all in all, probably presently their concern is for yukio (poor yukio. he never gets his proper alone time), exorcist exams and etc. though it'll be nice for a lil ship tease once in awhile..... or not  :P