Shipping Thread!

[xyzt]

The end of the balcony scene in chapter 70 between the two especially the viz translation felt like a pretty blatant ship tease with the two blushing and all.

That's funny because that scene to me was just another one confirming there isn't anything romantic between them.
When he complimented her, at first she looked pleased, but then she got angry saying "Why do I have to be told that by you!" Since she looked pleased at first, it seems her problem was not with what she was told but with the person saying it. Like "why does it have to be you". If she just wanted to be mean to change the subject because she was shy, she could have said a hundred different things. Like "I don't care what you think." or "Why are you saying that all of a sudden? You want something from me?". Or at least if she said "Hearing it from you doesn't make me happy at all." it would have sounded Tsundere.

As I said I was talking about the official translation from viz in that scene where Suguro straight up says that he likes her better this way and izumo getting flustered and saying what he said that for. The fan translation felt to far less of a ship tease but the official viz translation was hard to not see a ship tease.
Also izumo's look when bon compliments her looked to be that of shock so how can u can say that she looked pleased and not to mention they both were blushing not just izumo. There is very little reason for Suguro to blush at Izumo's tsundere outburst since he has always been fighting with her.

Also given the way Suguro's character arc is moving him beginning to ease up and enjoy his teenage life more. And considering how he was complaining about everyone being into romance during the festival arc, it feels like he is going to get into a romantic relationship eventually. Even though I would rather he end up with somebody else, him ending up with Izumo seems to be the day it is heading although i would be happy to be wrong.

Not to mention Mamushi was shown to love mocking and teasing Juzo similar to how Izumo enjoys getting into fights with Suguro, and yet Mamushi was shown to be in love with Juzo all along at the end of the arc.

[chinonamida]

As I said I was talking about the official translation from viz in that scene where Suguro straight up says that he likes her better this way and izumo getting flustered and saying what he said that for.

I see. Though he says "You're better now" not "I like you better this way".
I'm not making this up, the others are screwing around.

Also izumo's look when bon compliments her looked to be that of shock so how can u can say that she looked pleased

It had a soothing atmosphere. For a second.

and not to mention they both were blushing not just izumo. There is very little reason for Suguro to blush at Izumo's tsundere outburst since he has always been fighting with her.

Manga characters can blush for many reasons, not just romantic ones.
When they're happy, or when they're angry, or when they're embarrassed...
I'm sure I kind find images of Ryuuji making a similar expression at Rin or something, that doesn't mean he likes him... romantically I mean.
Here I'd say it's a classic case of Ryuuji trying to be cool but then it somehow backfires so he's embarrassed for not getting the right reaction, therefore failing to be cool.
As for Izumo, ironically, I think she got upset precisely because Ryuuji looked cool and was nice to her. Like you said, they have always been fighting, she doesn't want to suddenly have to receive his kindness. Especially if he looks cooler than her while doing so.

Also given the way Suguro's character arc is moving him beginning to ease up and enjoy his teenage life more.

You really think he'll be able to do that now that he's under his new sensei's care. JK  X)

And considering how he was complaining about everyone being into romance during the festival arc, it feels like he is going to get into a romantic relationship eventually.

Sorry, but you lost me there.

I'm never completely sure if Ryuuji is just shy or if he's acting like a "true japanese man" i.e. trying to always look unmoved by things like romance and such.

Not to mention Mamushi was shown to love mocking and teasing Juzo similar to how Izumo enjoys getting into fights with Suguro, and yet Mamushi was shown to be in love with Juzo all along at the end of the arc.

They're different people. Let's not mix things up.

[kirarin]

i don't even see yukio having time for feelings. he's numb and thirsting for power. this is like a sasuke trope. he's obssessed to get stronger and stronger that he's okay leaving people behind. dun dun dun. i bet he's willing to hurt renzou or anyone who tries to stop him from going daredevil nuts again or finally joining  illuminati. (that would be in a while i suppose).
a guy so problematic has no room for such affections. i even feel that crush with shiemi has left him feeling empty and numb already. who cares about those it's not important as getting stronger lol but sometimes i wonder if shura's renzou's and yukio's bickering with the  'ladykiller four eyes' is a foreshadowing to yukio having a violent side to him in that area.

I feel this on so many levels. Plus, I just can't see Yukio in a relationship with anyone. Dude has severe trust issues, to the point where all he does is lie, to others and himself.

i don't mean he's not deserving and can't bring himself to love and have affections for other people.  i don't want him starved of love and comfort. presently he's uchiha yukio. starving for power. blind and kinda pessimistic that there are still people caring for him.give him time to settle the stuff in his life and afterwards hopefully he'll also have someone he can be with. (please, not toudou. just please). this is just the present state of his. not his attitude or behaviour or whatever.

anyway. i didn't know bon and izumo had a thing. really? well this is interesting. who cares who ends up with who. everyone's lovely with anyone they might end up with. but seriously, is bon/shiemi not even a thing??!!! alright. guess i'll just sail somewhere.

[gokusdonut]

i don't even see yukio having time for feelings. he's numb and thirsting for power. this is like a sasuke trope. he's obssessed to get stronger and stronger that he's okay leaving people behind. dun dun dun. i bet he's willing to hurt renzou or anyone who tries to stop him from going daredevil nuts again or finally joining  illuminati. (that would be in a while i suppose).
a guy so problematic has no room for such affections. i even feel that crush with shiemi has left him feeling empty and numb already. who cares about those it's not important as getting stronger lol but sometimes i wonder if shura's renzou's and yukio's bickering with the  'ladykiller four eyes' is a foreshadowing to yukio having a violent side to him in that area.

I feel this on so many levels. Plus, I just can't see Yukio in a relationship with anyone. Dude has severe trust issues, to the point where all he does is lie, to others and himself.

i don't mean he's not deserving and can't bring himself to love and have affections for other people.  i don't want him starved of love and comfort. presently he's uchiha yukio. starving for power. blind and kinda pessimistic that there are still people caring for him.give him time to settle the stuff in his life and afterwards hopefully he'll also have someone he can be with. (please, not toudou. just please). this is just the present state of his. not his attitude or behaviour or whatever.

anyway. i didn't know bon and izumo had a thing. really? well this is interesting. who cares who ends up with who. everyone's lovely with anyone they might end up with. but seriously, is bon/shiemi not even a thing??!!! alright. guess i'll just sail somewhere.

I knew what you meant, lol. It's just that until Yukio can overcome his internal issues, like lying and trusting people, I personally don't think he's fit to be in a relationship with anyone for the time being, especially not with Shiemi. This, aside from the fact that he simply doesn't have nearly as big an impact on her as Rin does, is one of the main reasons why I can only see them as friends, Yukio's one-sided feelings aside. She's tried reaching out to him, much like Rin, but like Shiemi told Rin, "He's giving you the same 'leave me be' look that he gives me." Shura's tried reaching out to him, but Yukio is hostile to her like he is towards Rin. He has to settle himself before he can be in a relationship. And that's not to say that Yukio doesn't have good qualities, but he is far too selfish at the moment to think of anyone else.

I fully expect Yukio to overcome his obstacles, just not anytime soon. (He's treading on Problematic Favorite right now).

Edit: Also, I should've clarified when I said I agreed with your statement. I don't see Yukio as a violent individual (with anyone that's not Rin), but I can definitely picture him manipulating someone's feelings (i.e. Shiemi) or straight up lying on a higher scale than what we've witnessed to get what he wants. Not that he'd hurt someone physically, but maybe emotionally and psychologically.

[xyzt]

As I said I was talking about the official translation from viz in that scene where Suguro straight up says that he likes her better this way and izumo getting flustered and saying what he said that for.

I see. Though he says "You're better now" not "I like you better this way".
I'm not making this up, the others are screwing around.

I always thought that apart from not using honorifics and occasionally mistranslating jokes that only make sense in japanese, they were very accurate with their work considering they are the legal way to buy and read manga in the west.

Also Izumo's interactions with Shiemi and Suguro were a major focus when it came to showing Izumo's character development even more so than her interactions with Rin considering her relationship with Rin didnt change much from beginning to now while there was substantial changes in her relationship with both Shiemi and Suguro. And even in that Shiemi's attitude towards Izumo never changed, but in case of Suguro, both their attitudes towards each other gradually changed overtime (and even in Suguro's case, his interactions with her were given a lot of focus when showcasing his character development). It also makes sense from character development point of view since these two started as hating each other and gradually developed into vitriolic best friends who deeply respect one another. If this is the end of the development between the two, then it is fine and honestly I would prefer that be the case but if the relationship between the two is going to develop further than it is very likely that their relationship might turn romantic (which I dont like but I do see it happening) since they already are best friends at this point of time and we are only little more than halfway through the series .

Not to mention Mamushi was shown to love mocking and teasing Juzo similar to how Izumo enjoys getting into fights with Suguro, and yet Mamushi was shown to be in love with Juzo all along at the end of the arc.

They're different people. Let's not mix things up.

I was only bringing that up because Juzo and Mamushi's initial interactions were almost identical to Suguro and Izumo's initial interaction right up to one getting physically violent with the other. Not to mention that this is a series that thrives on parallels and contrasts between characters and  relationships between different characters.

[Kimya]

I am not sure if this has already been mentioned in this thread (sorry if it has, I have not gone through all 30 pages) but what do you think about Mephisto's interest for Shura? It somehow freaks me out, even though I am not sure of why. x)

[earthforge]

As I said I was talking about the official translation from viz in that scene where Suguro straight up says that he likes her better this way and izumo getting flustered and saying what he said that for.

I see. Though he says "You're better now" not "I like you better this way".
I'm not making this up, the others are screwing around.

I always thought that apart from not using honorifics and occasionally mistranslating jokes that only make sense in japanese, they were very accurate with their work considering they are the legal way to buy and read manga in the west.

Cool it, xyzt. Chino's been doing direct translations of specific lines in the manga for a while. He's generally right. Viz doesn't just translate, they make lines sound smoother in English. This can lead to errors in interpretation.

There's a fundamental part of relationships: the parties have to at least *like* each other. Bon and Izumo simply tolerate each other. At most they're colleagues.

Not to mention Mamushi was shown to love mocking and teasing Juzo similar to how Izumo enjoys getting into fights with Suguro, and yet Mamushi was shown to be in love with Juzo all along at the end of the arc.

They're different people. Let's not mix things up.

I was only bringing that up because Juzo and Mamushi's initial interactions were almost identical to Suguro and Izumo's initial interaction right up to one getting physically violent with the other. Not to mention that this is a series that thrives on parallels and contrasts between characters and  relationships between different characters.

Bon and Juzo are not similar. While Juzo is serious about his job, Juzo is much more easy-going in day-to-day life. He jokes and relaxes. Bon is serious in general. Mamushi and Juzo partially got together because of Juzo's forgiving nature.

I am not sure if this has already been mentioned in this thread (sorry if it has, I have not gone through all 30 pages) but what do you think about Mephisto's interest for Shura? It somehow freaks me out, even though I am not sure of why. x)

It was intimidating at the beginning because of Mephisto's threats of her "dying young", but now that the curse has been destroyed, I'm really not sure.

[chinonamida]

I always thought that apart from not using honorifics and occasionally mistranslating jokes that only make sense in japanese, they were very accurate with their work considering they are the legal way to buy and read manga in the west.

Well, I'm a translator in real life (not of manga though) and I can tell you translators are humans, they can be flawed and they can make mistakes.
Though, if put in a simple way, there's usually two types of translators: the ones who tries to be as loyal as possible to the source text even if it makes the target text seem unnatural and the ones who tries to make the target text as natural as possible even if it makes it disloyal to the source text.
Translators are often asked to be the latter. Since the publishing houses often decide the target audience doesn't care about the loyalty to the source text as much as the fluidity of the target text. And eerily enough, a lot of translators happily comply.
But I like many others see this often leads in increasingly disloyal, lazy and rushed translations.

There's a french term for this, they call it the "belles infidèles" in reference to women "who are beautiful but always cheat". Critics on promiscuous women aside, I think that's a fine way to put it.

Also Izumo's interactions with Shiemi and Suguro were a major focus when it came to showing Izumo's character development even more so than her interactions with Rin considering her relationship with Rin didnt change much from beginning to now while there was substantial changes in her relationship with both Shiemi and Suguro. And even in that Shiemi's attitude towards Izumo never changed, but in case of Suguro, both their attitudes towards each other gradually changed overtime (and even in Suguro's case, his interactions with her were given a lot of focus when showcasing his character development).

Again, what you're saying is irrelevant to romance. You don't calculate attraction by the amount of character development they make each other go through.

It also makes sense from character development point of view since these two started as hating each other and gradually developed into vitriolic best friends who deeply respect one another. If this is the end of the development between the two, then it is fine and honestly I would prefer that be the case but if the relationship between the two is going to develop further than it is very likely that their relationship might turn romantic (which I dont like but I do see it happening) since they already are best friends at this point of time and we are only little more than halfway through the series .

A slippery slope argument?
Though I wouldn't even call them friends let alone best friends. And anyway, if I did, that would be bad news for their chances at romance. I'm among the ones who thinks that "acquaintance" branch out to either "friend" or "lover", that it's not a straight line where you have to go through "friend" to go from "acquaintance" to "lover" and that you can't call someone a "friend" and a "lover" at the same time.
But, I know, eternal disagreement...

I was only bringing that up because Juzo and Mamushi's initial interactions were almost identical to Suguro and Izumo's initial interaction right up to one getting physically violent with the other. Not to mention that this is a series that thrives on parallels and contrasts between characters and  relationships between different characters.

The only parallel I see is they fought.

Sorry got to go.

[NeeNee]

I always thought that apart from not using honorifics and occasionally mistranslating jokes that only make sense in japanese, they were very accurate with their work considering they are the legal way to buy and read manga in the west.

Well, I'm a translator in real life (not of manga though) and I can tell you translators are humans, they can be flawed and they can make mistakes.
Though, if put in a simple way, there's usually two types of translators: the ones who tries to be as loyal as possible to the source text even if it makes the target text seem unnatural and the ones who tries to make the target text as natural as possible even if it makes it disloyal to the source text.
Translators are often asked to be the latter. Since the publishing houses often decide the target audience doesn't care about the loyalty to the source text as much as the fluidity of the target text. And eerily enough, a lot of translators happily comply.

Why is that eery? I also prefer a readable translation over an accurate one. It’s best if you can have both, of course, but when you can’t, the idea should be to makes sure your audience gets the message, even if you have to take some liberties.

(You should have seen the Dutch translation of Bleach. They kept all the different compellations, including honorifics, and in Japanese… Half of the time I couldn’t figure out whom they were talking about. Great way to lose readers.)

[chinonamida]

(I believe we had a similar conversation some time ago...)

Why is that eery?

Because it often leads to increasingly disloyal, lazy and rushed translations.
Translation can be so hard sometimes translators give up and fall into the "good enough" mentality.

Or even worse, sometimes translators get power trips and go from changing onigiri into bread and Tokyo into Paris to changing gay characters into cousins and criticism of religion into inept gibberish.

I also prefer a readable translation over an accurate one. It’s best if you can have both, of course, but when you can’t, the idea should be to makes sure your audience gets the message, even if you have to take some liberties.

How I make sure the audience get the message is I put footnotes or verify the information can be easily found on the internet.

Also, what I write may not always sound like what an anglophone would say, but may sound like what a Japanese speaking in English would say. Therefore I judge it's understandable even if not 100% natural.

(You should have seen the Dutch translation of Bleach. They kept all the different compellations, including honorifics, and in Japanese… Half of the time I couldn’t figure out whom they were talking about. Great way to lose readers.)

What do you mean by compellations? Things like Taichou?

[NeeNee]

^ Ichigo-kun, Ichi-nii, Kurosaki-chan... I get that they're trying to keep the nuances, but when you're reading a manga for the first time and the same character gets addressed in three completely different ways on the first few pages, it's just confusing. Especially because people in the West use first names in all those situations.

I mean, when you're translating a manga about the Japanese court this might be a good idea, because the status of the characters is important and anyone reading about that is probably interested in the Japanese way. But in an action shonen? Just make sure people can follow the story, man.

[chinonamida]

^Come on, if it's only that, it shouldn't be so hard. And it's almost the same in western languages, don't pretend like it's not. James, M.Smith, Father, Honey, M.President, Lil-Jamy, he, that guy... it could all refer to the same person.

You really wouldn't like the Genji Monogatari. The characters in that book don't even have names, only titles, and they change some times so you have to keep up.

[NeeNee]

^Come on, if it's only that, it shouldn't be so hard. And it's almost the same in western languages, don't pretend like it's not. James, M.Smith, Father, Honey, M.President, Lil-Jamy, he, that guy... it could all refer to the same person.

Yeah, but those things have meaning to the average Western reader. Unless you know a lot about Japanese, the examples I gave have not.

[echo]

I don't think you really need to know a lot of Japanese to understand the honorifics, especially nowadays with the internet. Manga gives you pictures to help with the references, making it easier to pick up who is who than in your typical novel, and if that's not enough you can search the meanings and clarify who the characters are pretty easily, and then you've learned something, too. I don't see it as being much different than running into a word you don't know in your typical novel. Either you figure it out through context, look it up, or let it go and settle for not having complete understanding.

Of course, I really like having the extra level of nuance, since I think it gives me much richer understanding of the character relationships, which I'm almost always more interested in than the story >.<

[NeeNee]

And I think it's making things needlessly complicated for the sake of being 'exotic' and could prevent a good series from going mainstream.

Of course, if you like manga because "I read manga, I'm special!", that's good. But when you're a publisher who wants to sell books, it's not.