Author Topic: Character emblems  (Read 45011 times)

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2013, 10:44:58 PM »
I meant I cannot identify it as a symbol (unlike the other characters' emblems where you can clearly see certain meanings from Buddhism, Shinto and so on).

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2013, 11:00:37 PM »
Well, it's still better than Kuro's. :P

But you're right, it is rather low on symbolic value. I wonder if that was on purpose.

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2013, 05:00:39 AM »
I take back what I said about it meaning nothing...

This is The Treasure Vase



and this is The Parasol



they are part of The Eight Auspicious Symbols of Buddhism ( http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/symbols/ )

So, the thing is, I first noticed that the top of Amaimon's emblem looked like a lotus flower:



but the rest looked like some sort of ornament so I went to one of my books on symbols and found the Eight Auspicious Symbols of Buddhism and I did this:

(click to show/hide)

I'm not sure if it resembles more the Parasol or the Treasure Vase, I lean more towards the Treasure Vase because of the jewels that are laying around under the emblem.

Also, I noticed, there are 8 Auspicious symbols, 8 auspicious substances ( http://books.google.com.ar/books?id=-3804Ud9-4IC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=8+auspicious+substances&source=bl&ots=FQHDSTPeKx&sig=idTTr2spEN66AjAVkpa--bIk4r4&hl=es-419&sa=X&ei=-8ToUfT_IKakiQLNkIGoAQ&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=8%20auspicious%20substances&f=false ) and 8 mudras ( http://www.hispayoga.com/mudras.htm ).

Now, I would have to check the meaning of the jewels and revisit Mephisto's emblem before stating anything, but I think Kazue might built the characters of the Demon Kings around this Buddhist symbols.

Offline themoonlandian

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2013, 05:03:02 AM »
I bow down to your knowledge!  *O*

That's ...that's...so freaking amazing! EXTREMELY insightful!

*goes under my rock again*
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Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2013, 06:36:09 PM »
Has Volume 11 come out aready? Has anyone seen Arthur's emblem? Could you share?

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2013, 07:29:02 PM »
^ The English version is planned for March 2014. Patience is a virtue. ;D

The French one is coming out a lot sooner, September 25th this year. I could go and have a look at it, but I can only offer you a description since there's no way I'll be taking pictures in the shop.

EDIT:
Unless they have them at the manga convention in November. In that case, I might try and shoot a photo for you. Can't promise anything though.

Offline Desktop Warrior

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2013, 08:03:12 PM »
Quote
^ The English version is planned for March 2014. Patience is a virtue. ;D

Haha, the only reason I'm really looking forward to it is for the extra content. And maybe, I'll finally learn Godaiin's first name, which is important to me because reasons.

Quote
The French one is coming out a lot sooner, September 25th this year.

...perhaps this is an incentive for me to get back into learning French.

As for the eight symbols and eight demon kings, that wouldn't surprise me in the least. Eight is a number with particularly strong meaning in East Asian cultures, and Katou has shown that she does the research.

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2013, 09:10:32 PM »
Does it actually say that there are eight of them?

Because in the last official volume, Mephisto implied there are only seven (he says Amaimon has the lowest seat and that there are six kings above that, himself included).

Offline Desktop Warrior

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2013, 09:18:14 PM »
Yeah, I'm curious about that, too. Maybe it's the seven Demon Kings plus Satan himself? Hmm...

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2013, 11:29:52 PM »
There are 8 Demon Kings:



Amaimon is the 7th King of the 8 Kings, with 6 more Kings over him.

Satan is over those 8 Kings.



So, I understand Satan would be like an Emperor with the Kings under him. There is a King under Amaimon who would be the 8th King.

What is up to discussion is if Mephisto is 2nd after Satan or 2nd among the Kings (but I have trouble imagining a power greater then time-space manipulation).

PD:

About Volume 11, I remember when volume 10 was out Jump Square would allow me to read the first few pages online but now I can't find that option at their website for Volume 11...

Thanks NeeNee.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 11:35:51 PM by HeavenlyArcher »

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2013, 12:56:16 AM »
^ Yeah, but that's the scanlation. My question is, do they actually call them the eight demon kings in the original Japanese too?

Because the official manga refers to them as the Baal, which (according to Wikipedia) is connected to the seven princes of Hell. Are we sure 'eight demon kings' isn't just a standard expression, or alternatively, are we sure they aren't including Satan?

Offline Desktop Warrior

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2013, 12:59:42 AM »
That's what I've been wondering myself. On that note, I'm curious if/when we'll see the other Demon Kings. I have the feeling they're all just as autonomous as Mephisto.

Also, I wonder if that sigil on Mephisto's tie is one of the Auspicious Symbols, as was mentioned earlier.

Offline MetallicArcher

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2013, 01:59:02 AM »
Could you share a pic of the official translation for that page?

As far as I can remember, the manga has mentioned:

- Samael (Mephisto) , King of Time and Space
- Amaimon, King of Earth
- Iblis, King of Fire
- Astharot, King of Rot

The problem with Baal is that the princes it mentions are:

Quote
Lucifer: pride
Mammon: greed
Asmodeus: lust
Leviathan: envy
Beelzebub: gluttony
Satan: wrath
Belphegor: sloth

Basically, no Samael, Amaimon, Iblis or Astharot (yes I checked if they were their alternative names in other languages).

But if we use the system of the 8 sub-princes by "Abramelin the Mage" we get:

Quote
- Astarot: Usually written “Ashtaroth”.

- Magot: Usually written Maguth.

- Asmodee: Usually written“Asmodeus,” and sometimes “Chashmodai”.

- Belzebud: Also written frequently “Beelzebub“, “Baalzebub”, “Beelzebuth”, and “Beelzeboul”. From Hebrew, BOL, = Lord, and ZBVB,= Fly or Flies; Lord of Flies.

- Oriens: from Latin, Oriens, = rising or Eastern. This name is also written Uriens. By the Rabbins he is also called SMAL, Samael, which is derived from the Hebrew root SML, which means “a figure, image, or idol”.

- Paimon: Is also frequently written “Paymon”, and sometimes “Paimonia”. Paimon is also called by the Rabbins by the title of OZAZL, Azazel, which is a name used in Leviticus with reference to the Scape-Goat

- Ariton: It is also often called “Egyn,” or “Egin”.

- Amaimon: Also written frequently “Amaymon”.

Ok, someone on mangafox posted this:

Quote
So far we have:

Amaimon - King of Earth

Astaroth - King of Rot

Egyn - King of Water

Azazel - King of Spirits

Beelzebub - King of Insects

Iblis - King of Fire

Samael - King of time

http://forums.mangafox.me/threads/419455-Eight-Demon-Kings?p=10778487&viewfull=1#post10778487

So, we have seven names, "Abramelin the Mage" gives us eight, let's check the ones that do not fit in our list:

- Magot

- Asmodeus

Magot seems to be associated to witchcraft (I can't really find all that much information about him, sorry).

Of, Asmodeus, I found this depiction:

Quote
He is a Great King, Strong, and Powerful. He appeareth with Three Heads, whereof the first is like a Bull, the second like a Man, and the third like a Ram; he hath also the tail of a Serpent, and from his mouth issue Flames of Fire. His Feet are webbed like those of a Goose. He sitteth upon an Infernal Dragon, and beareth in his hand a Lance with a Banner. .

So I would say he could be Iblis.

PD: Don't we have a thread for this in the forum? Maybe we should move this lastes post there to avoid going off topic...

Offline NeeNee

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2013, 02:13:02 AM »
^ We don't have a thread yet. Feel free to make one.

I can't take pictures right now, but Mephisto says: "Amaimon tarnishes the lowest seat of the Baal. He is King of Earth, and the seventh of us. Including me, there are six kings above him. Satan stands even higher, ruling over all."

Offline Desktop Warrior

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Re: Character emblems
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2013, 02:15:05 AM »
I'm not entirely sure, but we have a thread called "Mythology in Blue Exorcist" on the second page of the "Blue Exorcist (Manga)" sub-category. You'll have to confirm with NeeNee, though. We'll probably leave it here, haha.

In any case, I don't think Katou is sticking to a single system with the Demon Kings' names. I checked Wikipedia's pages on demonology (yes, very unprofessional of me. XD), and it looks like every self-proclaimed 'expert' in the field had their own classification. Most likely, Katou's picking and choosing what seems most interesting/balanced.

Personally, I can't wait to see Asmodeus or the equivalent thereof~