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Messages - chinonamida

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Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: Chapter 129 ENG
« on: April 04, 2021, 04:36:36 AM »
The clone must be so confused...
"Where am I? It's cold. Kill who? Arg, my eyes. What's happening here? Ah, clothes, thanks. Who's your father? ..."

Tandem, I'm not sure what twist you're talking about, but if you're talking about Satan possessing the clone, it was bound to happen at some point, wasn't it? I concede it escalated quickly though. x)

I hope now Yukio won't be parasited anymore. And I hope is eye is ok. The poor guy needs a break. x)

There are so many ways the story could branch out from this point on. Should we finaly restart writting crack theories? It's been so long. My mind's not ready. I feel rusty. lol

First here's one not-so-crack-theory.
(click to show/hide)

I'll write some more theories later. I definitely have more in mind, but I've got to go now. Also, I kind of want to know whether people are actually reading this or not. x)

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: Spoiler moping thread
« on: April 04, 2021, 03:29:08 AM »
^In the end I didn't post more that month. Sorry. It's so busy in my line of work lately, it's insane. I see no one else posted much neither. x(

The new chapter is finally out! I'll try to post more this time. x)

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: Chapter 127 ENG
« on: January 04, 2021, 03:48:16 AM »
^I know you have. I've seen a few pages from chapter 128, I think you'll like it too.

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: Spoiler moping thread
« on: January 04, 2021, 02:35:54 AM »
^Yeah. It's nice to have Yukio back on the right side.

I was busy lately, but I might post more this month.

As anyone found the chapter's raw yet?
I just got a few pages.

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: AOEX CHAPTER 125 RAWS
« on: October 02, 2020, 05:36:47 PM »
Did Rin dodge the shot? x(
He dropped the sword.
And Yukio's gun is empty now.
Is it going to be an exclusively hand-to-hand combat?
Maybe I'll do another fight review.
Show me your moves Katoh. x)

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: AOEX CHAPTER 124
« on: September 05, 2020, 04:57:33 AM »
My greater bugbear was the translation that became "you have a chip on your shoulder", which misses that Rin was just repeating the only thing he understood from Yukio's earlier diatribe (translated earlier as "don't look down on me" / "I get it, you don't want to be looked down on"). It made it confusing why Yukio got enraged. After all this, all that Rin figures out from dealing with him was that one, single line. As if Yukio's done all this just because he doesn't like playing the second banana.
Oh, I didn't see that. I didn't read the english version completely. I just skimmed through it.
Yeah. That one is terribly mistranslated. Rin really is saying "I got one thing. It's that you don't want to be looked down on."
I don't know how they got from that to "you've got a huge chip on your shoulder." *shrug*

Then again, demon Rin was pretty on-the-money with what he was saying. Does Yukio want to die or to win? He doesn't even know. He's stuck on sacrificing his life in the exact same way as Shiro. Yukio's given up on being stronger than Rin, because it's just not possible. As demon Rin says, no matter how hard Yukio works and complains, he can never beat him.
But Yukio seems to believe that he wins if he gets Rin to kill him. So it makes some sense, no? To win is to achieve one's goal.

Also... I guess the translation is off there too... Though it's not that big of a problem...
In the English version, Demon Rin says "Do you even know ... whether you want to win or die? You never make any sense!"
In the Japanese version, Demon Rin says "Jibun ((your)self) de (with) wakatteru (understand) ka (*question marker*)? Kachitai (want to win) dano (*marker of enumeration of an incomplete list of things* [slightly outdated. the more contemporary way of saying it is "toka" or "yara"]) korose (kill *imperative form*) dano (*marker of enumeration of an incomplete list of things*). Itteru (saying) koto (thing(s)) mechakucha (mess/nonsense/awful/terrible... [is often used simply for emphasis]) de (with) wake (reason(s)) wakannei (don't understand) yo (for your information)." So in other words "Do (you) understand (your)self? (When you say) "(I) want to win" and "kill (me)" and so on... The things (you) are saying, (I) don't understand the reason(s) at all, you know."

By the way, it's even less important, but they also forgot to type in one of Koneko's line. He said "That voice..." before saying "Is it Satan's!?". But they just wrote "Is that Satan!?" in the second bubble and left the first one blank...

Yukio has more problems than just Satan being in his eye. I'd like to start seeing him trying to deal with his other issues. I think we have about seen enough of him trying to get Satan out of his eye, imo. - _-

I too am a little tired of Satan being in Yukio's eye. But I think that'll happen soon. This arc looks like it'll resolve with Satan getting removed, although he could soon potentially incarnate in the host body that Drac is bringing over. I suspect Yukio will stay an antagonist, given he has not really dealt with his problems yet. Toudou's foreshadowing that Yukio will "understand" when he's "honest" has yet to pass, and so far Toudou has been the best predictor of Yukio's arc.
I hope Toudou comes back. I'll miss him if he never does.

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: AOEX CHAPTER 124
« on: September 04, 2020, 10:44:14 PM »
Yukio didn't say "My life no longer has any value."
Yukio said "mou (by now/anymore/no longer) boku (me/I) ni (to) ikiru (live) kachi (value/worth/merit) ha (*subject marker*) nai (no/nothing/none)" in other words "To me, there is no worth living anymore."
It's life that has no worth in Yukio's eyes. It's not that Yukio thinks that his life has no worth.
In japanese, "My life no longer has any value." would be "boku no inochi mou kachi ha nai."

I feel like Rin was somewhere in the middle of human mindset and demon mindset in the first half of the chapter. He didn't really talk like demon Rin.
Actually, demon rin speaks very differently from rin, and even though the text font was rin's usual font and not demon rin's usual font, it was definitely demon rin's way of speaking. If it was rin pretending to be demon rin, it would have meant that rin was really good at immitating demon rin's way of speaking... But since we saw rin regain control, that means it really was demon rin.

I guess in the end Rin can separate Satan with Yukio after he gets the sword from Koneko? But it seems too early to solve Yukio's problem now.
Yukio has more problems than just Satan being in his eye. I'd like to start seeing him trying to deal with his other issues. I think we have about seen enough of him trying to get Satan out of his eye, imo. - _-

i wanted to carry the heavy load of this chapter if it was to help yukio. this is the first time i got scared of rin. like the fact he was so fucking murderous and full blown ass top tier demonic scared the living heck out of me. this was the only time i took demon!rin seriously. kato. you've done your part. take a bow. you are one superior mangaka. as for the main reason as to why im hurting is yukio.  YUKIO. i have said this so many times that i love you and maybe that's why i really am hurting because the moment he said thankyou to rin .... for finally killing him.... hits so close to home. that was painful. it was personal in a way. and so heart wrenching. it was the saddest thing i have seen on yukio. im at a loss for words. it was like i was losing my own child and im like... i can't even describe it except it was all shades painful, remorseful and gut wrenching. i wanna die. YUUUUKKKKIIIIOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Kirarin, did you just say you want to die!? Don't do it! DX

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: Chapter 123
« on: August 11, 2020, 12:04:51 AM »
yooo haven't been on here in awhile, but to summarize my thoughts on these past couple chapters:
screw every other ship, yukio x therapy is my OTP right now
Yeah. But I doubt Katoh will literally introduce a therapist character this late in the story. If she did, it would feel like she just gave up on making the characters solve things between themselves.

I have no idea of what you mean, Kirarin. x)

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: Chapter 123
« on: August 06, 2020, 06:53:49 PM »
On page 22, there's a translation I also was uncertain of, the first speech bubble on the second-to-last pane: "Satan's going to kill me and everyone I love". Was that one correct?
No, it's not correct. You were right to doubt it.

Yukio said: Boku (I/me) mo (and) boku (I/me) ni (with) kakawaru (to be concerned/connected/involved) ningen (humans) mo (too) subete (all of them) Satan (Satan) ni (by) korosareru (to be killed). Kekkyoku (after all/anyway) boku (I/me) wo (*object marker*) korosu (to kill) koto ni naru (something that will happen) darou (I'm predicting).

So in other words: "Satan is going to kill me and everyone around me. I will most likely be killed anyway."

You can look up the verb kakawaru if you want. It's written 関わる.

And there's one other notable mistake in the English version from the link.
Where it looks like Ryuuji is saying "I don't like fighting friends and family" and Izumo is replying "Sure, but sometimes there's no other choice".
It's actually Ryuuji saying "I don't like fighting friends and family, but sometimes there's no other choice".
It's clearly Ryuuji saying all those lines because they're all clearly said in the kansai accent.
I don't know why they put in "Sure," as if they were Izumo's lines.

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: Chapter 123
« on: August 05, 2020, 03:18:42 PM »
Didnt Mephisto say that Yukio was trained in martial arts since he was a child?
Yes. Yukio is good, but he's not a specialist or expert or master of martial arts. They said he trained in martial arts, but, as far as what they showed us, he doesn't seem to spend a lot of time training. He seems to be training his guns skills more than his martial arts. In actual combat too he's using his guns more than anything else. And he got beaten up in hand-to-hand combat by Toudou multiple times.

would the telomere extraction trgger satan to come back or is it too soon? i got interested when yukio said that part of him seeing something that might result to satan coming back. it's highly unlikely though that this procedure was what yukio pertained. im sensing it to be probably seeing rin live his whole demonic nature completely or another perfect experiment from the labs. but is it possible for satan to possess rin in this state? it's like 2 demons clashing inside a body.
I don't know. But it does seem more and more like Rin and Demon Rin are two completely different person, having conversations and fights with one another. But we still don't know if Demon Rin is possessing Rin (or in this case we could call him Human Rin) like a demon can possess a human. Or if both of them are just split personalities of Rin. If it's the latter, then we're mistaken to call the other Rin "Demon Rin", because they'd both be the same half-demon (not one being a demon and the other one being a human). I don't remember anywhere in the manga anyone calling the other Rin "Demon Rin", we're the ones who started calling him that, in the manga they all call him things like "the other Rin" or they say "that's not Rin" and in comparison they call the other one things like "the normal Rin" or they say "Rin is back to normal". I've said it before, but I'll say it again, I think it's likely that it's just a split personality. Rin grew up thinking he was human, when his demon powers awakened, he had a hard time accepting it, and people told him he had to repress it. He's not a human possessed by a demon, he's a half-demon. But in his mind maybe he feels like a human who got possessed. So as a defense mechanism, to preserve his perception of himself as a human, he unconsciously split his personality between a "human self" and a "demon self", because he can't accept he's a half-demon. I think it makes sense.

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: Chapter 123
« on: August 04, 2020, 09:19:27 PM »
Yeah, that sounds more useful for Rin than sword classes. He's getting beaten by someone not known to be a specialist in hand-to-hand combat. Osceola could probably wipe the floor with Rin.
Osceola teaching Rin would be interesting. I want to see that now. x)

I think that was a combo of pulling Rin's hair and pointing the gun at Rin. Rin instinctively jerks away whenever the Armumahel gun is pointed at him, and that's what broke the hold. The only time Yukio could hit Rin with the bullets was after guiding Rin to an area where it was physically impossible to dodge.
Yeah, it's true the gun helped too.

Though whether it's the hair and the gun or a german suplex, none of these techniques are techniques that break holds/grabs, they are techniques that make the other let go of the hold/grab mainly through pain and/or fear and/or becoming incapacitated. Truly breaking a hold/grab usually involve leverage of the other's body parts with some of your own body parts. But that's just semantics, don't mind me.

Ah, the missing pronouns strike again.

Tbh I think it works more strongly if Yukio is trying to attribute all his friends as "Rin's friends & home", as a justification for why Rin needs to kill him. But I agree, he does care about the willingness of his friends to save him, particularly Bon, Shura, and Shiemi.
Oh, sorry, no, not this time. Grammatically, it was clear.

Yukio said "Nii-san (brother) no ('s) sekkaku (finally) dekita (made) taisetsuna (important) ibasho (home) mo (and) tomodachi (friends) mo (too) zenbu (all of them) kietenakunatte (will diseapear) shimau (in the end) kamoshirenai (maybe) nda (because of what was previously mentioned) yo (I'm telling/informing you)"

What I meant is, when someone is talking about someone else, but really they're talking about themselves. You know what I mean?

Yukio somehow thinks he lost his friends and his home. But he finds solace in thinking that they are now Rin's friends and home. And now he seems to be warning Rin to not lose them as well.

Of course Rin isn't in that list. But that is because he views Rin trying to save him as an assertion of his own weakness. These chapters seem to be proving him right. Both Rin and Yukio had defined roles in their family unit. Rin was the protector of the family unit, but also stupid and malfunctioning in society. Yukio was the success story who'd go on to do something, but also weak and needing protection. Yukio broke the social contract when he proved he could walk all over Rin (literally), and that's why Rin keeps repeating how Yukio is actually "strong". Rin's now protecting the family unit by pushing Yukio back in line. So Yukio thinks he's strong now? Bullshit.

The story has deconstructed the whole "declarations of protection" trope. Both twins decided to protect each other, but that's all been shown to be based on their own need for identity in the family unit. Rin embraced his role as the strong one and accepted/internalized his stupidity. Yukio challenged his role as the weak one, and Rin will not accept that. This isn't a loving sib dynamic -- this is a protector-victim dynamic.
I don't disagree with you, except that I don't think there's no love. I think they love each other and that's part of why they want to protect each other. But there's also competition between them. And pretty much everyone, not just those two, want to have a role, to be useful, in a relationship; pretty much no one wants to feel like dead weight. That's something Shiemi struggled with a lot too.

Regarding Yukio, hopefully he will begin to be honest with his want for help after this confrontation. If Toudou's foreshadowing is any indicator (and so far it's been the most reliable one), Yukio will eventually drop the pretense and manipulation. But I doubt it'll be a good thing at first.
Well, I think that prediction already started to happen a few chapters back.

No way that is Demon!Rin at the end. It is probably just regular old Rin acting as his demon self trying to beat some sence into Yukio. I mean, look at the horns and speech bubble.
Good eye. I didn't notice the font change. The eyes look round too.

Also, I just noticed Rin is kneeing Yukio's back while he's on the ground, that's also a banned move in most combat sports, because that's a brutal move.

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: Chapter 123
« on: August 04, 2020, 06:03:47 AM »
Yeah, the glasses and burning clothes gags made my day. x)

Demon!Rin is unsurprisingly doing the same telegraphic punches as Rin.

I'm really starting to wish for Rin to take hand-to-hand combat classes.

When Rin grabbed Yukio in a chokehold, from the side this time, and Yukio got behind him, I thought "GERMAN SUPLEX! YUKIO, DO A GERMAN SUPLEX!" but it didn't happen. x)
(Never do a chokehold from the side, unless you want to be suplexed.)
(Pulling hair works. Though it's banned in almost all combat sports, this is a real fight...)
(Kids, don't do german suplexes at home. They're dangerous. They can kill.)

I also noticed it's not clear whether Yukio is talking about Rin or himself when he's talking about home and friends...
If I remember correctly, his memory of Shura is from when she talked to him in the cell after he got arrested, his memory of Shiemi is from when she talked to him at the shop before he ran away, his memory of Ryuuji is from when he talked to him at the wedding, ... I don't remember for the others ... but out of the three I think I remember, they're all from scenes where his friends were trying to help him and asking him to help them help him.
If that's the first thing he thinks of when he thinks about his friends, that's telling a lot about him. It confirms that, even though he refused their help, the fact they tried to help is important to him; or in other words, that he wants to be helped even though he thinks they can't help him. imho.

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: Chapter 122 ENG
« on: July 14, 2020, 08:51:22 AM »
You're right about chokehold. I did see what you sent and in a real fight, for a very strong opponent, it isn't easy. In manga's context, Yukio and Rin are still not fighting seriously. Yukio had direct aim to the heart, he didn't do anything. Rin had Yukio in a chokehold, he could simply have tried burning him or even truly strangling him. But it is mostly to hold him in place.
So Rin might not have been fighting seriously... ? Yeah... I can see that...

If I were in Rin's place, I wouldn't have let go of that grab though. X)

About Rin's real fights, a lot of times he has been in feral rage. This means that if he is hurt, he isn't aware or that he heals so fast that it is barely worth attention. But he does hurt, does feel stunned or any other human reflexes that have been accumulated through life. I don't see him as hulk or thick-skinned to not feel anything.
You have a point about the rage.

As for the pain, I partly agree but not completely. I can speak from experience, the more you experience pain, the less you sens it. I'm not sure why though; either building up mental resistance over time or long term damage to pain receptors... Wait. Does Rin's demon regeneration regenerate his pain receptors whenever they get damaged? That wouldn't be useful. x(

I do get what you say, that while Yukio knocked him, ducked and used his momentum to torque out of the hold, it is unlikely if Rin put in actual strength to hold him. For a lot of 2-D, fictional fights, whether it is in a story or comic, I don't let it disturb me as it is difficult to reproduce accurately. But visually, such fights give themselves away easily.
Yeah. I know it must be hard to draw. I just enjoy doing fight reviews. But I still liked the fight. Like I said, it had tension, which is great. x)

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: Chapter 122 ENG
« on: July 13, 2020, 08:52:36 AM »
I took it that while Rin jumped on Yukio, Yukio hit the butt of the left gun on his shoulder and hit gauge of the right gun on his elbow. Rin said 'ow' maybe more so out of surprise than hurt.
Still, Rin has seen so much worse than this. Strikes like that should have been nothing to him. He got stabbed in the guts by Neuhaus and barely flinched, he got beaten up by Amaimon so bad that the authors hid his bloody remains with mosaic, he burned alive until his body was charred and falling into ashes... To see him say "ow" and let go of his grab because of two small strikes like that is just so odd. It seems out of character. I understand Rin being bested by advanced martial techniques and by the Armumahel gun, but Rin being hurt or even just affected by the force of some average strikes, I don't believe that.

Then Yukio smoothly ducked out from under Rin's arm while trapping his hand on the shoulder.
Oh, so that's what they tried to show? Maybe.
The problem is, it wouldn't work.
People can't simply duck out of a chokehold. Unless the one doing the chokehold puts no strength in it and just lets the other one get away with the ducking out. But if the one doing the chokehold puts some strength in it, they won't let the other get away with simply ducking out. It's really hard for anyone who's caught in a chokehold to get out of it. Ducking out is far from enough.

It's hard to explain with only words, so here's some videos I can vouch for.

Here, they're explaining how it's not possible to simply duck out of a bearhug. A bearhug is different from a chokehold, but not so different. He even turns the bearhug into a chokehold at the end, and you can see the other one tapping (asking him to release the hold) because he's actually choking and knows he won't easily be able to get out of it if they continue. And if they did plan to continue, the guy doing the chokehold would have grabbed the other guy's waist with his legs. That's how the technique is usually done. (from 4:04 to 4:40)

Here, they don't talk about ducking out, but they talk about other techniques that do not work against chokeholds. They don't go all out in the video and they joke around a lot, but I can vouch for the fact that the techniques wouldn't work even if they were more serious about it. (Also, just a disclaimer, the finger technique at the end is only partly true. It's really efficient if you manage to grab a hold of a finger, but they forgot to mention that grabbing a finger is not that easy when you're actually being choked. But they did say at the end, the most important is to train. The more you train, the more you can get closer to what a real fight is like. And eventually you reach a point where you can defend yourself in a real fight. There's no special technique where you can think "Attack the fingers? Got it!", then never train and expect to be able to use the technique in a real fight someday. This disclaimer is for people who have 0 experience in combat training.)

Here they talk about submission techniques from the back. The very first one they show is the RNC (Rear Naked Choke) the most common type of chokehold and the one I was talking about, with the arms grabbing the neck and the legs grabbing the waist.

By the way, I don't know this channel. I just searched and found these videos to show you. And I know what they're saying in these three videos is true, because of my own experience in combat sports. But I don't vouch for anything else said in any of their other videos, because I haven't watched them.

After that he had a close, direct aim to the heart. About the strangeness of the fight, I feel it has more to do with Yukio biding time until the wave burst and goading Rin to go full out. But do you feel something else going on?
I also think Yukio is provoking Rin to go berserk.
I guess he's also enjoying the fight and showing off his skills to Rin.
Though I don't think Yukio know what the Seraphim Pulse does, so I don't think he could make any plans with it. I think that, just like Rin, Yukio had to wait and see to find out whether it would do something to them or not.

Blue Exorcist (Manga) / Re: Yukio Okumura
« on: July 07, 2020, 02:07:17 AM »
Otherwise, Yukio was only making himself more like a traitor.
So you meant suspicions of being a traitor. I was talking about suspicions of having demon powers.

Yukio surely didn't want to be accused of hidding information, but he also didn't want people to find out something was wrong with his eye.

If he just went to the examination right away, and they found out there was something wrong, they wouldn't accuse him of hidding information, but they would still accuse him of having demon powers or something else and immediately take away his freedom and assigning a guardian to him and a new guardian to Rin.

On the other hand, pretending to be busy and skipping examinations for a few weeks did buy him some time and wouldn't lead to accusations of treason if, when he finally went to the examination, it turns out negative.

I admit that if he delayed and the result turned out positive, that would have been the worst case senario.

But Yukio took a risk, because he wanted to buy himself some time.

I'm not sure that's what I would have done, but I understand why he did it.

If I were him and I must do that suicidal training (which is itself a bad decision), at least I would choose a locked room or a basement. You can't expect no one will notice when you only find an empty building.
I must agree, a closed and locked room would have been better.

No, I'm suggesting "discussion" instead of "asking for help". For example, he could ask Rin "how did you do that candle practice?" if he still wanted to hide his own secret.
I'm sorry, but I genuinely think discussing one's problems with other people and asking for advice is a way to ask for help.

Though I admit asking how Rin does his training is indirect enough to not make Rin suspicious. I didn't think of that. But now we know Yukio's situation is different than Rin's, we know that this information wouldn't have helped Yukio. Still, without knowing that in advance, Yukio defenitely could have done that.

The more dangerous the situation is, the more careful you need to be.
In that case, he should follow the rule more strictly. Like taking the examination in time or not hiding too many things in the report. And definitely not doing secret training.

The problem is, when he still wants to take action, he does it too roughly, and he doesn't seem to notice that.
That's being careful if you don't want to be accused of being a traitor no matter what.

But that's not being careful if you don't want people to know there is something wrong with your eye no matter what.

The point isn't really about trust. Even if he has found someone reliable, there is still no guarantee that the suggestion from this person is workable. In the end, he still needs to judge on his own.
I think you think I mean trust as in: "He discusses with someone to get advice. Then he trust the judgment and advice of the person so much that he just does exactly as that person says".

But what I mean is: "He discusses with someone to get advice or maybe even get that person to do something for him. While trusting that the person won't turn agaisnt him and/or volontarily or involontarily denounce him to the Order upon hearing the information that he may have demon powers or something else that's wrong with him".

Many of the people around him seems like the type of people who would either betray him for their own interests, or who would directly do things against his own will because they think it's for his own good. If, while discussing his problems with the people around him, they find out what his problems are, many of them would have taken that information and used it against him. That's why he can't trust many of them, on different levels and for different reasons.

Because everyone has a blind spot, and it's possible he could find a better way during a conversation. Avoiding all outside source is actually ignoring the possibility that he's on the wrong direction.
That's true. But you have to compare the dangers of taking decisions without consulting other people first vs the dangers of someone using information you gave them against you. The benefits of having other people's opinion, may not be worth the risks of having them use informations against you.

Yes, but the chance that the plan is not best becomes higher, so it's worth reconsidering.
It's worth considering, of course. Though, Yukio did consider changing his plans. And he even considered disscussing with other people, but after the disscussions went wrong, he gave up on disscussing further.

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