The Blue Knight

Blue Exorcist => Blue Exorcist (Manga) => Topic started by: IsmihanA on January 03, 2018, 11:01:37 AM

Title: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: IsmihanA on January 03, 2018, 11:01:37 AM
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5502362026?lp=5028&mo_device=1&is_jingpost=0&pn=0&

Sooo idk if this is full version because I can't open it on my mobile but there is ,,31'' on the bottom so I think that this is it.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: AlienGirl on January 03, 2018, 11:40:42 AM
Thank you for this !!!

Great chapter ! I need the translation now ! ^^
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Taytronics7 on January 03, 2018, 11:46:18 AM
Woah, is Rin's body deteriorating? I see the necrotic skin on him. Is this why he needs to hide his heart? So he doesn't burn up his own body?
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cherub on January 03, 2018, 12:25:32 PM
Maybe I read it too fast, but I was so ready for some physically deformed Rin but I’m glad I didn’t see that if I tell really was that it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be..
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 03, 2018, 12:30:13 PM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cherub on January 03, 2018, 12:49:42 PM
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Eh!? Seriously!?
I’m reading it and I’m seeing Toudou Hamare?? I feel like I saw this coming but I also didn’t xD
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Gaara-g on January 03, 2018, 01:18:22 PM
How did you open the chapter??
I only can see the first page
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 03, 2018, 01:23:59 PM
I think that's because your are using cell phone?

I can see 27 pages on my computer
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: alenseptia on January 03, 2018, 01:33:10 PM
thank you so much!! *runs off to read*
I think these raws are whole chapter if you open it using pc instead of mobile phone.

by the way this chapter hits me with many feels  :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 03, 2018, 03:00:43 PM
Oh no. Rin... my baby... I want you to be okay.

Satan's pretty chatty.

How can Yukio climb up a rope with a broken arm?

The award for most ridiculous looking panel in a serious chapter goes to page 13 with Bon squeezing Amaimon's face.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cherub on January 03, 2018, 03:07:07 PM
Oh no. Rin... my baby... I want you to be okay.

Satan's pretty chatty.

How can Yukio climb up a rope with a broken arm?

The award for most ridiculous looking panel in a serious chapter goes to page 13 with Bon squeezing Amaimon's face.

I don’t think Yukio climbed, you know those ropes that have a piece of wood you stand on before lifting you up? I think it’s like that.

Also hell yes! Amaimons face getting squished...
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Madow on January 03, 2018, 03:22:52 PM
Ok, so it makes sense why it was sealed away. Turns out Rin isn't as special as we thought and that his body can't handle the true power of his demonic heart. Time for the elixer maybe? Or is Mephisto gonna have to suspend him in time and space so his body isn't burned away?

Kinda hoping that his human body burns away and reveals a grotesque demon body underneath like the whole nightmare he had in the anime
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: gokusdonut on January 03, 2018, 03:32:32 PM
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I called it a long time ago. I knew that she was a Toudou! That blonde streak and uncanny likeness to freckle boy was too good to be true!
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 03, 2018, 03:37:23 PM
Okay, after 5 hours I can steadily breathe again, so let's try to get the best out of it while we can.

First, I wish to know which God I gotta thank for having Rin REMAIN CONSCIOUS that much to have more talk with Yukio AND-GOD-FKING-DAMMIT-WITH-SATAN-TOO.

SATAN, IT WAS ABOUT TIME YA OPENED YAR DARN MOUTH!

So, okay, Rin's chest is about to rip apart and reveal his demonic heart but right now I WANNA HANG TO THE HOPE THE TWINS PARTED ON A BETTER NOTE (at least on Rin's side) AFTER THIS CHAPTER, so we can still hope Rin's gonna try and get Yukio back once he's better and he's hopefully over his rage/I want to kill my brother status.

Maybe having Rin hear Satan's voice (FINALLY) out of Yukio helped Rin change his mind a lil, I... I wanna hang to this! If Satan actually helped out with this, I'm gonna thank him and make him a statue.

Shiemi, dearie... That panel of Yukio wrapped in that flower thingy melted my heart.

All in all, that escalated quite quickly. When I saw Yukio board the helicopter I was like: "Ah, and now we're gonna need to wait 36 more chapters before they're gonna get Yukio to the Illuminati ship, have the crew throw him a welcome party, then go through all the formalities, some showing around the base scenes, blah blah-OHMYFKINGGOD, it took only 3 pages!!!! Kato-sama SLOW DOWN!!! NO- NO- DON'T!!!! JUST KIDDING!!!! KEEP IT UP!!!

I want to add more after some good translation so I'll save the rest for later. But I want to believe this chapter marks the beginning of a possible Rin's attempt to reconcile with Yukio someday. That panel when he stares at the helicopter fly away and he's "Yukio...!" broke my heart. Pls, be WHAT I HOPE!  JUST BE IT!

Edit: WHOOPS, I forgot. RIP Yukio's glasses.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Taytronics7 on January 03, 2018, 03:59:31 PM
Wait, does Satan say "That's an interesting woman..." after Shiemi gets kicked? If true, that foreshadowing makes me very uncomfortable... :o

Well, at least Yukio finally has embraced his true self and will get even more interesting.  :D

Poor Rin. Hang in there!
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 03, 2018, 04:04:42 PM
I still can't believe this is happening... someone pinch me! I've been wanting this scene for YEARS. So far Illuminati Yukio is everything I wanted. He's suspicious, somewhat sarcastic, and openly angry. He's on track to get answers and he still yells at Lucy. And man, I love it. My angry garbage fire.

Shiemi trying to stop Yukio when his flames were active broke my heart.

Wait, does Satan say "That's an interesting woman..." after Shiemi gets kicked? If true, that foreshadowing makes me very uncomfortable... :o

D8

ohmigod, someone protect her! protect both my bbies, rin and shiemi. wrap up in protective blankets and keep the garbage fire far away!

*collapses into mix of hysterical tears and laughing again*
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Taytronics7 on January 03, 2018, 04:08:25 PM
I still can't believe this is happening... someone pinch me! I've been wanting this scene for YEARS. So far Illuminati Yukio is everything I wanted. He's suspicious, somewhat sarcastic, and openly angry. He's on track to get answers and he still yells at Lucy. And man, I love it. My angry garbage fire.

Shiemi trying to stop Yukio when his flames were active broke my heart.

Wait, does Satan say "That's an interesting woman..." after Shiemi gets kicked? If true, that foreshadowing makes me very uncomfortable... :o

D8

ohmigod, someone protect her! protect both my bbies, rin and shiemi. wrap up in protective blankets and keep the garbage fire far away!

*collapses into mix of hysterical tears and laughing again*

Yes!!!! We must protect our children!!! I don't trust Satan around ANY woman after what happened to Yuri! (Ok, granted we don't know the specifics, but I assume it wasn't consensual)
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: facets-and-rainbows on January 03, 2018, 04:20:42 PM
OKAY SO

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 03, 2018, 04:21:15 PM
Btw, is it just me or Kato-sama's style slightly changed this chapter? At times (most of the time) I can't recognize her art at all.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Mojo on January 03, 2018, 04:45:16 PM
"Well I didn't do much, he mostly just self-destructed"

I'm sorry but I can't stop laughing, Renzou really knows how to piss people off. If Yukios only  objective is power, then really there's nothing guaranteeing that he won't betray the illuminati after he gets it. Bon has always been a good guy but can we take a second to appreciate how protective Izumo is towards Shiemi. That girl came a long way man. I think someone did mention that the illuminati lady was Toudo's relative in the betting thread, I wonder how big of a role Katou is gonna give her in the future now that she is "officially" introduced
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 03, 2018, 04:52:14 PM
I want to add more after some good translation so I'll save the rest for later.

On second thought, after this...

Before he leaves, Yukio says to Rin, "I don't know what'll happen if I go to the Illuminati. I might die. But if we DO both live through this, I'll be stronger than you. You can count on that."

...I'm feeling too depressed to comment any further. The worst scenario just materialized after a tiny ray of hope. I'm calling it now, I don't give a damn anymore: Rin and Yukio are not gonna meet till the end of the manga and Yukio's gonna die. Not 'cause he said he might, but 'cause this is taking exactly the direction I pictured time ago.

Yukio's "If we do live through this, I'll be stronger than you, you can count on that" is Yukio's counterpart of Rin's "Someday I'm gonna surpass you" and if Yukio is planning to do something REALLY big then I'm betting he's willing to fk the Illuminati through and through and save the world. This could be his idea of "surpassing" Rin and get in a position of absolute advantage over him. At this point, I don't think he's aiming to anything less than this. That's the reason for joining exactly the -world's- worst enemy. Not only to get answers, but also to fk them from the inside.

And once he'll be done, he's gonna die or let himself die 'cause he'd reach his top dream and feel accomplished.

Moral is, one more chapter or a couple more to see how this goes and I'm sorry, but I'm gonna need to drop this manga. It'd be more hurtful to keep reading than quit it now.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 03, 2018, 05:20:01 PM
-He starts going on about how Yukio will help usher in an era of true peace or whatever and Yukio is like, cut the crap, your plan is evil, your organization is evil, YOU'RE evil, this whole place is a WRETCHED HIVE OF SCUM AND VILLAINY
-And I'M evil for joining you. I've thrown away everything so I can know myself. I'm here for the power you promised me, and I'm going to get that power.

Hell yes. I didn't think we'd be so lucky to have Yukio allied with the Illuminati while still disgusted with their plans. But here we are, and I am one happy fangirl. This speech is like the dark mirror to Rin's "I'm no demon king or savior!" speech to the Grigori from chapter 14. Since Rin has always bared his soul to the world, seeing Yukio do it is exciting.

Yukio's "If we do live through this, I'll be stronger than you, you can count on that" is Yukio's counterpart of Rin's "Someday I'm gonna surpass you" and if Yukio is planning to do something REALLY big then I'm betting he's willing to fk the Illuminati through and through and save the world. This could be his idea of "surpassing" Rin and get in a position of absolute advantage over him. At this point, I don't think he's aiming to anything less than this. That's the reason for joining exactly the -world's- worst enemy. Not only to get answers, but also to fk them from the inside.

And once he'll be done, he's gonna die or let himself die 'cause he'd reach his top dream and feel accomplished.

Moral is, one more chapter or a couple more to see how this goes and I'm sorry, but I'm gonna need to drop this manga. It'd be more hurtful to keep reading than quit it now.

Yukio will never feel accomplished. No matter how much power he gains, no matter how many things he sacrifices, he will never gain the satisfaction he craves. Nothing will fill that void in his heart.

He's gonna be awful. He's gonna be vicious, cruel, and destructive. He's fallen and has finally accepted this is what he is.

But I'm fairly certain he won't die. That coward doesn't get to die. He has to own up to the consequences of his choices.

Likewise, Rin will survive. He's the main character, for Pete's sake. He's about to get a massive power-up too.

Remember when Mephisto said Shiro was raising Rin until the flames gained strength? This is the culmination. This is why Shiro had to die. So Rin could learn to control the flames through Kurikara, and then access his true power.

And Satan... he's been watching the whole time through Yukio's left eye. IMO that confirms that Satan views Rin as his son, while Yukio is only just a tool. It's things like this that make me pity Yukio despite his viciousness.

-Firey speech bubbles are all STOP FIGHTING YOU TWO, I WILL TURN THIS CAR AROUND
-(Satan: hey don't cover me up)
-We are greeted by Boss Lady, who is like "good work Shima" and Shima is like "Well I didn't do much, he mostly just self-destructed"

I did NOT expect to be rolling on the ground laughing at this chapter. Why is this so heartbreaking and funny at the same time?!
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 03, 2018, 05:29:50 PM
I want to add more after some good translation so I'll save the rest for later.

On second thought, after this...

Before he leaves, Yukio says to Rin, "I don't know what'll happen if I go to the Illuminati. I might die. But if we DO both live through this, I'll be stronger than you. You can count on that."

...I'm feeling too depressed to comment any further. The worst scenario just materialized after a tiny ray of hope. I'm calling it now, I don't give a damn anymore: Rin and Yukio are not gonna meet till the end of the manga and Yukio's gonna die. Not 'cause he said he might, but 'cause this is taking exactly the direction I pictured time ago.

Yukio's "If we do live through this, I'll be stronger than you, you can count on that" is Yukio's counterpart of Rin's "Someday I'm gonna surpass you" and if Yukio is planning to do something REALLY big then I'm betting he's willing to fk the Illuminati through and through and save the world. This could be his idea of "surpassing" Rin and get in a position of absolute advantage over him. At this point, I don't think he's aiming to anything less than this. That's the reason for joining exactly the -world's- worst enemy. Not only to get answers, but also to fk them from the inside.

And once he'll be done, he's gonna die or let himself die 'cause he'd reach his top dream and feel accomplished.

Moral is, one more chapter or a couple more to see how this goes and I'm sorry, but I'm gonna need to drop this manga. It'd be more hurtful to keep reading than quit it now.

Don’t jump the gun. You can clearly see that Yukio is remorseful for what he had done: in the plane and calling himself an evil person. The problem is that he’s still placing Rin on a pedestal and not looking at himself, or rather still sees himself as the little kid who needed protecting. He needs to break out of that and see that he is strong—though he’s still weak for giving up certain values to gain strength—I still see reconciliation, but it’s going to take a while especially since we don’t know why Satan is co-existing with Yukio right now, nor do we know what effect this has on Rin (just please no Dragonball-style, dragging it out for several chapters/episodes—how long did he spirit bomb?). I do want to see a conflict between his demon and human? hearts, but one of the key moments I still see happening from the anime is the scene with Rin on a cross and Yukio stepping in to give his blood instead. It may not happen the same way, but the message and symbolism is going to be the same—“this is MY brother, and I’m not letting you have him.”

If it’s becoming too emotional, abstain for a while until several chapters come out so the constant cliffhangers aren’t playing with your mind.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Taytronics7 on January 03, 2018, 07:02:30 PM
I'm actually gonna be kinda dissappointed if Rin gets a huge power up. I wanted him to lose access to his powers so that he'd have to learn how to fight without his flame. Now that it looks like he's going to have complete control (cause let's face it. He's not going to die or be possessed by Satan), I'm not sure what to make of it.

I guess in order for his body to not get used to the flames, he'd have to use the key to hide it and keep it away from himself. That's really the only way I can see him go without powers, but that's just my wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 03, 2018, 07:10:35 PM
I can't get over how ridiculous Lucy's bathrobe looks. I mean, what is /with/ the demon kings and their terrible fashion sense? I can't help but wonder if Katou got some inspiration from Snoke's lame gold bathrobe in TLJ. I also find it funny how suspicious Yukio gets when Boss Lady introduces herself as a Toudou.

And of course... Amaimon's face.

(http://78.media.tumblr.com/4e3f93d803439458714927f9d803728e/tumblr_p1zm9cSA5v1tpl1vro1_250.png)

Ladies and gentleman, meet the Demon King of the Earth!
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: randomsnarfle on January 03, 2018, 07:11:01 PM
Don’t jump the gun. You can clearly see that Yukio is remorseful for what he had done: in the plane and calling himself an evil person.

I'm not sure where you're seeing remorse. Shima's conversation with him makes it pretty clear that Yukio has no regrets about what he's done (Paraphrased but: "You know you won't be able to go back after this, so you better not be having any regrets-- ah, I guess you don't!"). Accepting that he's a bad person doesn't meant he regrets it, just like Todo willingly falling to a demon and betraying the Order in his first appearance doesn't mean he regrets his decisions either.

If anything, the fact that he acknowledges what he's doing is bad, and yet goes ahead and does it anyway, throwing everything and everyone who ever cared about him away, shows that he doesn't feel bad about it. Will he feel bad later? Maybe, but probably not for a long time and after a good amount of character development.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 03, 2018, 07:19:48 PM
Don’t jump the gun. You can clearly see that Yukio is remorseful for what he had done: in the plane and calling himself an evil person. The problem is that he’s still placing Rin on a pedestal and not looking at himself, or rather still sees himself as the little kid who needed protecting. He needs to break out of that and see that he is strong—though he’s still weak for giving up certain values to gain strength—I still see reconciliation, but it’s going to take a while especially since we don’t know why Satan is co-existing with Yukio right now, nor do we know what effect this has on Rin (just please no Dragonball-style, dragging it out for several chapters/episodes—how long did he spirit bomb?). I do want to see a conflict between his demon and human? hearts, but one of the key moments I still see happening from the anime is the scene with Rin on a cross and Yukio stepping in to give his blood instead. It may not happen the same way, but the message and symbolism is going to be the same—“this is MY brother, and I’m not letting you have him.”

If it’s becoming too emotional, abstain for a while until several chapters come out so the constant cliffhangers aren’t playing with your mind.

My problem is that I got attached to this manga in a very dark period of my life (lost my dad and my previous job to take care of him at the hospital). I know this has got nothing to do with everything. But I know how I'm done and I always had a problem giving up on something (or someone) I care, no matter how I was hurt from it/them. I changed a lot over the last 3 years so if I have to, I'm not gonna let myself being involved and hurt like in the past but I'm gonna try and put the lid over it and struggle to focus on something else.

It's a manga, it's fictional, I know, but I connect it to a period of my life where I was trying to love things of life again. It's been positive to me in many ways but if now it had to drag me down again, I'd rather stop reading it at all. As I said, it'd be hurtful either to stop following the updates or keep reading and see a sad/bad ending. I may try to skip a couple months just to see how it goes. But if I happened to come across another hint to something I don't want to see it'd be even worse.

Guess I'll let a few days pass by for now. Sorry about this, just felt like saying.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 03, 2018, 07:37:33 PM
Don’t jump the gun. You can clearly see that Yukio is remorseful for what he had done: in the plane and calling himself an evil person.

I'm not sure where you're seeing remorse. Shima's conversation with him makes it pretty clear that Yukio has no regrets about what he's done (Paraphrased but: "You know you won't be able to go back after this, so you better not be having any regrets-- ah, I guess you don't!"). Accepting that he's a bad person doesn't meant he regrets it, just like Todo willingly falling to a demon and betraying the Order in his first appearance doesn't mean he regrets his decisions either.

If anything, the fact that he acknowledges what he's doing is bad, and yet goes ahead and does it anyway, throwing everything and everyone who ever cared about him away, shows that he doesn't feel bad about it. Will he feel bad later? Maybe, but probably not for a long time and after a good amount of character development.

I see it as him realizing that what he’s done is bad but as a necessary sacrifice. It has shown time and again that he will sacrifice what is necessary to get a result—the end justifies the means. He internalizes and cares not what Shima has to say. He is remorseful, but he has to push forward to obtain his desires. As I stated, it’s pretty weak of him to let go of some values to gain strength, and that’s the fallacy that he has to overcome.

And Shima’s funny that way. He’s flippant with the truth. He’s been toeing the line with Yukio, so you can’t really take his “Ah! I guess you don’t!” seriously.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Elaedan on January 03, 2018, 07:59:13 PM
Long time no see~
I am glad that I returned after a break, as the series have gotten better again. Just couldn't handle the chapters in between, but this one brought my faith back into this series even though some of this is till kind of too predictable and first anime season-ish.

Remember that I speculated and had a theory that if Kurikara breaks that Rin won't die but his demon heart just returns to the right place? Seems to be happening! ^^¨

Now I only would want the rest of the demon kings and bros to be revealed - but A+ for Satan! It was super interesting how he was talking to Rin about son-father talk (oyako no kaiwa in raws? Not 100% sure as read really fast) and only referred to Rin as his son. Though Yukio's powers or if he has some are still in the shadows as some of the things he did might count as Satan's handiwork... >___>

And glad that the boss lady finally got the name everyone has been waiting for, and glad also that there is the Toudou connection. Makes the relatioships colourful.

About the Satan's Shiemi comment, I found it quite plain, like he was just noting "what a tough woman to rise against me" kind of way. Still Shiemi's mother's story in unresolved, so there can come something, though at this point I just would want the Yukio's situation to be solved. Ever since the Impure King Arc it just have hang there and no answers, even this small revelation doesn't count to the years of amount of waiting xD SO I can still wait a little bit for the Shiemi revelation if just we could get over with this plot point first.. I hope I could explain myself clearly enough...

I feel also that Katou sensei's style has again evolved a little bit though can still recognize it as hers.

EDIT: It has been about five years when Yukio's plot line started...or is it over? I've lost count :D Well shouldn't complain bc D.Gray-man and Lavi fans have it rougher, almost a decade???
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 03, 2018, 08:11:39 PM
About the Satan's Shiemi comment, I found it quite plain, like he was just noting "what a though woman to rise against me" kind of way.

Oh, here's another fan I read posts about but never "met" since I joined this forum, so pleasure to meet you.

(https://image.ibb.co/gAzM9w/shiemivssatan.jpg)

Shiemi and Nee vs. Satan/Yukio. Another anime reference.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 03, 2018, 08:24:56 PM
Don’t jump the gun. You can clearly see that Yukio is remorseful for what he had done: in the plane and calling himself an evil person. The problem is that he’s still placing Rin on a pedestal and not looking at himself, or rather still sees himself as the little kid who needed protecting. He needs to break out of that and see that he is strong—though he’s still weak for giving up certain values to gain strength—I still see reconciliation, but it’s going to take a while especially since we don’t know why Satan is co-existing with Yukio right now, nor do we know what effect this has on Rin (just please no Dragonball-style, dragging it out for several chapters/episodes—how long did he spirit bomb?). I do want to see a conflict between his demon and human? hearts, but one of the key moments I still see happening from the anime is the scene with Rin on a cross and Yukio stepping in to give his blood instead. It may not happen the same way, but the message and symbolism is going to be the same—“this is MY brother, and I’m not letting you have him.”

If it’s becoming too emotional, abstain for a while until several chapters come out so the constant cliffhangers aren’t playing with your mind.

My problem is that I got attached to this manga in a very dark period of my life (lost my dad and my previous job to take care of him at the hospital). I know this has got nothing to do with everything. But I know how I'm done and I always had a problem giving up on something (or someone) I care, no matter how I was hurt from it/them. I changed a lot over the last 3 years so if I have to, I'm not gonna let myself being involved and hurt like in the past but I'm gonna try and put the lid over it and struggle to focus on something else.

It's a manga, it's fictional, I know, but I connect it to a period of my life where I was trying to love things of life again. It's been positive to me in many ways but if now it had to drag me down again, I'd rather stop reading it at all. As I said, it'd be hurtful either to stop following the updates or keep reading and see a sad/bad ending. I may try to skip a couple months just to see how it goes. But if I happened to come across another hint to something I don't want to see it'd be even worse.

Guess I'll let a few days pass by for now. Sorry about this, just felt like saying.

Sorry to hear you had such a difficult time recently. I hope things will turn around for the better.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 03, 2018, 11:02:28 PM
My problem is that I got attached to this manga in a very dark period of my life (lost my dad and my previous job to take care of him at the hospital). I know this has got nothing to do with everything. But I know how I'm done and I always had a problem giving up on something (or someone) I care, no matter how I was hurt from it/them. I changed a lot over the last 3 years so if I have to, I'm not gonna let myself being involved and hurt like in the past but I'm gonna try and put the lid over it and struggle to focus on something else.

It's a manga, it's fictional, I know, but I connect it to a period of my life where I was trying to love things of life again. It's been positive to me in many ways but if now it had to drag me down again, I'd rather stop reading it at all. As I said, it'd be hurtful either to stop following the updates or keep reading and see a sad/bad ending. I may try to skip a couple months just to see how it goes. But if I happened to come across another hint to something I don't want to see it'd be even worse.

Guess I'll let a few days pass by for now. Sorry about this, just felt like saying.

Sorry Cloelia. I understand. Taking a break is completely reasonable.

I'm pretty sure the manga will have a positive ending eventually. But it's true we're in the darkest part of the story, and I can't say if it's the worst it will get. On the bright side, we're gonna get answers soon. I feel like the manga has come full circle. Rin started off wanting to be an exorcist to take revenge on Satan for Shiro, because Shiro saved him. The set-up was very dark. However, the next few chapters established Ao No Exorcist as more of a fun shounen. The first half of this manga was focused on Rin gaining friends and learning to be an exorcist. He had the threat of execution, but the tone was always upbeat despite the circumstances... a lot like Rin. The last few chapters have been a return to that dark set-up. It's a reminder of the stakes: why Rin has to destroy Satan and how Satan wants to take Rin's body.

But to quote Aang from Avatar, "it is when we reach our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change". Rin can't hide from the past. He'll have to confront the reason why he was born and Satan's plan. Shiemi can't stay on the sidelines. She'll have to be an exorcist if she wants to be together with everyone again. Admittedly, this will all take a while. Still, I think it'll take less time than it took to get here. We have been going fast ever since Yukio fell.

Personally, I'm relieved at the turn of events. Yukio is finally being his true self. Rin sees Yukio with fire in his eyes and haunted by a voice that only both of them can hear. Rin is reminded that his true enemy is Satan, who has not just taken away his father but now his brother. Mephisto's deal with Satan is made transparent. Rin is now off the "training wheels" of Kurikara and will now have to handle his true power.

Yukio has always been a source of catharsis for me. He epitomizes the pull of disordered emotion in a turbulent family situation. He's the one who started out with a pure desire to protect his family, only to become consumed by the desire to burn it all down. He is a case study in why self-loathing is dangerous. But I find him inspiring in that, despite how twisted he is, he is sane. He's using that relentless Okumura willpower to get what he wants, and he is not gonna hold any delusions that the Illuminati is a force for good. The kid has fire in him. That's why he can't be saved. That's why I believe he can save himself.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: JanellaBround on January 04, 2018, 01:05:59 AM
Oohh man, I'm on vacation in Brazil, where everything is beach, summer and fun, I really was not going to read the chapter this month because I knew it was going to be depressing but I could not help it and I saw it ... Now I'm sorry , I'm going to forget my sadness with Caipirinhas...


Seriously speaking now, I know that this manga needed this kind of conflict and darkness so that it would not become boring and all happy forever, I just hope that Kato-sama vindicates Yukio, I really love that character and I like that be all gray and conflictive but I think it deserves a better deal
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: SKL on January 04, 2018, 03:54:52 AM
First Impressions:

-Didn't expect to Rin to snap back to himself so quickly. And Yukio comments on that. It's yet again an extremely veiled compliment on how awesome he thinks Nii-san is, but Rin can't interpret that directly. Damn you Katou!

- I don't know, Satan talking and just how ridiculous the trio's situation is right now is funny to to me. I mean Satan talking through Yukio's eye to Rin and...
-Rin is like oh no Yukio is possessed! And Yukio is like no I'm not, I'm still me, Satan's just kind of...here. talking.
-Rin is like WTF IS HAPPENING TO YOU and Yukio is like ikr that's why I have to go get answers

Oh facet's I love the humor in the way you translate/summarize

-And...DAMNIT. I was really hoping Satan wasn't planning to use Rin as a vessel in the endgame. I would have rather Satan planned to keep him around as a son 'currently in his rebellious phase, but will come around to conquering Assiah for his father'. I mean he does talk about tempering Rin's body to perfectly withstand the flames...talks about his promise with Mephisto...and says 'the body will me mine'. That's not directly saying 'I'm totally gonna possess you', but it's damn close. Anyone got an alternate interpretation of this? I know it's pretty apparent, but I'm grasping at straws here.

-Clearly Rin is Satan's favorite son of the two (although he still talks shitty to him too), and Yukio is the 'weak-shit'(ch93) who Satan can barely deign to talk to. Honestly I prefer it this way, if his 'favorite son' is his 'preferred vessel'. Though of course if Yukio gets stronger, he runs the risk of the same thing. Seems vaguely anime-first-season bound where Yukio gets possessed by Satan. I didn't watch the anime, but saw the thread about all the similarities. I know they are very different, but so far the overall big events seem the same..opening gate....Yukio's face-heel-turn...Satan possessing an Okumura..it's making me think Katou did indeed give them like a few-lines summary or something of the overall direction the manga will take. What do you anime-watchers think?

-Back to the Satan-Yukio-eye-humor. I love that scene where Satan's like 'oh that girl is interesting', Yukio hears and is like, NOPE that's enough for you today, and covers Satan's view up. Satan's all, 'heeeeey don't cover me up'. Guys. This is Yukio casually giving Satan a time-out. SATAN. THE GOD OF DEMONS. HAHAHAHA!

-So yeah anyway. Ice-Cold Snowman tells Rin, 'If I don't die along the way, I'm going to become stronger than you' and directs his new flunky aka Shima to get them out already.

-Shima's attempt at conversation, and Yukio's impenetrably serious demeanor is gold. Yup I knew I would like their dynamic in the Illuminati.

-Ms. Toudou. Saw that one coming. Katou had little reason to not bring such a prominent character's name out for a long time, unless the name itself was a juicy reveal. Toudou's daughter? Niece?

-Poor Shima. That situation with him and the 'Swedish twin' (Gunal?-I suck at romanisizing names) totally looked like a situation where the PE teacher pairs the kid up with the school bully, and the bully gives a pleased condescending smirk. Hahaha. So they are still treating Shima like the worm he is LMAO

-Excuse me, but I was too blinded by the room, the scene, and the beautiful King of Light to read the dialogue of the final part of the chapter. So that's it then.

.....Okay, after reading the dialogue more closely it seems pretty typical of what we expected.
Lucifer: 'You will help usher in a new peaceful era' 
Yukio: 'Oh please. That's just evil talk you're spouting. I don't give a shit though, cause I'm an evil person too. I came here for power and you said you can give it to me. That's that'
-side note: Yukio's currently a walkytalky for Satan and Lucifer. LOL.



Yukio may be weak in many aspects. One things for sure though. His strength of determination is powerful and insurmountable. There is no weakness there.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Buttercup on January 04, 2018, 04:33:33 AM
And now we wait till Yukio B***H Slaps Shima. You know its coming, maybe Yukio will be the one to off him. (probably not) But seriously Shima is slime. I really don't like him. I really don't know whats going to happen next. I was pleasantly surprised that he was led to Lucy right away. I thought that Kato would prolong the meeting. My guess is that Yukio will end up a vessel for Lucy and Rin is Satan's vessel. Now I want to know what Lightning is going to think about all of these happenings.....I think lightining knows more about whats going on with Yukio and his trial will bring light (so to speak) the grand plans of the twins from the beginning. Long shot I know. I'm over here having a #prayforYukio vigil if anyone wants to join in. LOL but seriously. Damn I love Yukio.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Karen on January 04, 2018, 04:59:23 AM
:'( Well, guess Yukio's a lost cause right now, now that it's shown what was hinted at all along; that there was never much natural good or love in him and that all he cares about is power and being better than Rin. Too bad, they'll never be like the Elrics.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: SKL on January 04, 2018, 06:22:51 AM
^ Yeah I don't think manga-Yukio is for you. They are not the Elric brothers. Maybe in the epilogue though XD.



After processing the chapter more, I realize I love it! There were no big surprises. Many revelations maybe, but those were pretty predictable things. I even before imagined Satan taking note of Shiemi *Shemihaza relation theory intensifies* Love how Shiemi is so forceful with Yukio now. It started when she demanded he attend the Christmas party. How contrasting that was to how spaghetti she used to be with him. And for Yukio, a moment of weakness. Yup. Shiemi is Yukio's weak spot of light against the darkness.

Gawd Yukio just reeks of badassery. I love the way he takes charge of the situation. There is no fear or submission in the face of the Illuminati higher-ups and Lucifer. No. They will not be walking all over him like a carpet. Shima on the other hand...XD

This chapter confirms it for me. Lucifer is definitely one of my favs. His ideals are twisted and wack. But he is polite, fair, and does not like suffering. He did not like pigface being unnecessarily cruel. He does not like suffering, but death is okay. He does not think a world of pain and unevenness is fair, and he wouldn't hesitate to destroy it because of that. Honestly, he throws me for a loop, and I am captivated by him. Therefore I want to see more of Illuminati, and Yukio's dynamic with them. Though next chap might focus back on Rin (probably going in quarantine-mode, using the key for his heart, and visiting Tatsuma). It'll be the fall-out for the gate opening, Yukio's betrayal, and we might get back to Shura, Lightnings trial etc. Hopefully we get at least a morsel of Illuminati though.

The only bitterness in the chapter for me is the Rin angst. I feel so bad for him. Rin having to deal with Yukio's callous regard of him and betrayal, Satan, and his heart awakening him and painfully overwhelming his body. What pain...It's like he had so many terrible things happen to him at once.
I love seeing the twins together being bros...and it breaks my heart. I wanted to see the bros together most of the time...but I also wanted Yukio to join the Illuminati/have a status change. Though I knew I couldn't have both. So this is the sacrifice. It's a bitter one.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Stella96 on January 04, 2018, 08:50:13 AM
Wow long time no see! Happy new year! (A bit late but...)
I haven't written anything here since chapter 95 ... but I have been reading most of your comments (and of course the manga)
it's only that with all the finals and work... it was kind of difficult to find a moment to write.

But this chapter definitely worths it.

-First of all, after Satan's words, it will be pretty difficult to Samael to defend himself for collaborating with him (and if we add Amaimon's punch to Shiemi...)
Hopefully the exwires will come to him for answers.

-If Rin's body is necrotizing then he needs to control his power now, and taking in account the last cover where the vanishing key appeared it's pretty clear that he'll have to use it to "hide" his heart.
I think it's completely different from the situation we had with Kurikara sword ( where his heart was sealed). Now he'll be able to use all his power without any "firewall".
This can be very positive if his body can stand it,
but it could means too that we can start to see now how Rin's body suffers a lot of he abuse of his power in the battles.

-And talking about Yukio... I want to believe that he's doing all of this to save the world at the end, but... we have seen how dark his mind could be and how betrayed he felt from the Order. So I'm not completely sure if he'll turn to be the good guy at the end (and it would be very mainstream, wouldn't it?)
In fact he has just broken Komaken without knowing what would happen to Rin.
He doesn't know even if his brother could die bc of this, and instead of being worried he just joins the bad crew.

-And we don't even have the reaction of Shura after knowing Yukio's new career. Omg this will be great.

Well in the next chapter I wanna see a confrontation between Rin/Exwires/Shura against Samael, and how Rin's heart is hidden.
But above all, I want Yukio with his brand new bad-guy uniform.

P.d: I'm very sorry Cloelia, i know how it feels when you loss someone importar so take care of yourself.



Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: HorseTechie on January 04, 2018, 03:06:29 PM
Wow... this chapter was another roller coaster ride. 

And the twisted sense of humor in some places (only exaggerated by Facet's quick translation - arigatoo!)... I'm dead!

What got me is that Rin hardly seemed to notice his sword broke until it was pointed out to him. Aww man, he was that slow to grasp the situation? (So much for my idea that he had sensed beforehand that Yukio was possessed/inhabited by Satan).  Rin had no clue until the voice rang out between them. *tsk*

I'm sorry this storyline is continuing on its downward spiral, but at the same time... it feels more realistic. Yes, sometimes things have to scrape bottom before it turns around. Making it harder to predict makes it more interesting, having that suspense!  Then in the end, when it does turn around, it'll make the relationships feel that more worth the effort.

Both of the Okumura twins have so much to learn, apparently... but it looks like they first have to know themselves before they could be of any use to each other, I guess it is now.

Poor Rin! 

Shiemi also be awesome in this chapter. 

It is exciting to see Yukio with the Illuminati, and that he persevered in keeping his stance about why he was there.

And Boss Lady has a name!  Hah... now this does get interesting. (Huge A flying warship with tons of weapons though... should we be worried?)
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Buttercup on January 04, 2018, 03:55:03 PM
:'( Well, guess Yukio's a lost cause right now, now that it's shown what was hinted at all along; that there was never much natural good or love in him and that all he cares about is power and being better than Rin. Too bad, they'll never be like the Elrics.

I definitely don't think that Yukio is a lost cause. He is desperate for answers...and he wants them NOW. Heck, I would want to know too if I just found out that everything up until now was basically a lie. I would be pissed. I would leave. I don't necessarily think he will join them but he knows Lucy has the answers and has told him to come see him if he wants to know them. Which is why he told Lucy to cut the crap and get to it.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: DemonGirl-Setsuna on January 04, 2018, 04:55:40 PM
A thought had occurred to me last-night...

Rin's demon-heart could possible be stored inside Shura's empty demon-sword, either permanently or at-least temporarily until they get Kurikara repaired...

(Sorry, if I'm being/thinking too positive, but this thought is one of a few that is keeping me sane... :-[)
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 04, 2018, 05:44:50 PM
Okay, after some good venting I'm back on track. As usual, I've got a lot to say but I want to comment a piece at a time. As someone else pointed out, facets translations are the best things in the world and she's the only one who could make me laugh in the middle of this sad shet. (I read the translation again and I couldn't stop laughing (at work *ahem*)) One of these days I'm gonna need to ask you a favor, facets.

Anyway, just a random (not negative) thought about this chapter. Reading it again and staring at Yukio's bandage over his eye, I got suddenly reminded of Yukio's glasses solo pic from Kato-sama as a Happy Holidays artwork. GUYS (and GALS): I know that after that someone theorized Yukio might not need glasses anymore (for various reasons). But, if he's still gonna need them, well, he can't exactly "access" to his old "spares collection" in his dorm's room anymore, now can he? So, I think the reason Kato-sama drew that artwork could be that... she will not be drawing THOSE GLASSES anymore and that was actually a "goodbye" pic to them.

What if Yukio is still gonna need glasses and the Illuminati will provide him a new type? Like, a new design. Or, and I hope not, what if Yukio is gonna not only change glasses and uniform but... change style too? Like... his hair. I had this sudden thought and... I don't know how to feel about it! Bon and Shura (well, she didn't exacly do it on purpose) changed their hair style when they decided to "change" their life. So it looks like Kato-sama DOES like these kinda stuff. Argh. No, I don't even wanna think about it.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Karen on January 04, 2018, 08:13:03 PM
Quote
^ Yeah I don't think manga-Yukio is for you. They are not the Elric brothers. Maybe in the epilogue though XD.

No, he really isn't. As I said, I prefer the anime Yukio who put Rin before any knowledge or power for himself. No, they aren't like the Elric brothers and that's a shame, because Ed and Al have always had a great relationship and always will.

Quote
And talking about Yukio... I want to believe that he's doing all of this to save the world at the end, but... we have seen how dark his mind could be and how betrayed he felt from the Order. So I'm not completely sure if he'll turn to be the good guy at the end (and it would be very mainstream, wouldn't it?)

Exactly, and that's why I feel it's a lost cause now. After everything, it's way to late to have Yukio turn around and do a 180.

Quote
In fact he has just broken Komaken without knowing what would happen to Rin.
He doesn't know even if his brother could die bc of this, and instead of being worried he just joins the bad crew.

And there you have it.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 04, 2018, 09:45:20 PM
Wait, does Satan say "That's an interesting woman..." after Shiemi gets kicked? If true, that foreshadowing makes me very uncomfortable... :o
Rather than after getting kicked, it's more after she told Yukio not to leave.

To me it sounded like a father-son conversation where the father is like "nice girl for you" (not for himself) and the son is like "don't get involved".

In fact he has just broken Komaken without knowing what would happen to Rin. He doesn't know even if his brother could die bc of this, and instead of being worried he just joins the bad crew.
Satan broke Koumaken, not Yukio.

Rin's demon-heart could possible be stored inside Shura's empty demon-sword, either permanently or at-least temporarily until they get Kurikara repaired...
Shura did say she took the demon Lightning gave her only for a short while.

What if Yukio is still gonna need glasses and the Illuminati will provide him a new type?
https://www5.animesubhd.net/watch/subbed/kissanime/tonari-no-seki-kun-episode-19/
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Stella96 on January 04, 2018, 10:19:09 PM

In fact he has just broken Komaken without knowing what would happen to Rin. He doesn't know even if his brother could die bc of this, and instead of being worried he just joins the bad crew.
Satan broke Koumaken, not Yukio.
And he still doesn't mind if this kills Rin, he just takes off before knowing if he's okey.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 04, 2018, 11:15:51 PM

In fact he has just broken Komaken without knowing what would happen to Rin. He doesn't know even if his brother could die bc of this, and instead of being worried he just joins the bad crew.
Satan broke Koumaken, not Yukio.
And he still doesn't mind if this kills Rin, he just takes off before knowing if he's okey.

He just shot his brother. It’s more like he expects him to recover.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 04, 2018, 11:34:28 PM

In fact he has just broken Komaken without knowing what would happen to Rin. He doesn't know even if his brother could die bc of this, and instead of being worried he just joins the bad crew.
Satan broke Koumaken, not Yukio.
And he still doesn't mind if this kills Rin, he just takes off before knowing if he's okey.
Well he says : "I don't know what will happen when I go to the Illuminati. I might die too. In the unlikely event that (literally "a probability of one against ten thousand") we both survive, I will definitely become stronger than you."

So he knows Rin might die. If not from the broken sword, maybe from the order.

But Rin is surrounded by friends, leaving or staying might not make much of a difference in his chance of survival.

And he cares whether Rin survives or not. If he dies, who will he show off his strength to?
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Taytronics7 on January 04, 2018, 11:44:31 PM

In fact he has just broken Komaken without knowing what would happen to Rin. He doesn't know even if his brother could die bc of this, and instead of being worried he just joins the bad crew.
Satan broke Koumaken, not Yukio.
And he still doesn't mind if this kills Rin, he just takes off before knowing if he's okey.
And he cares whether Rin survives or not. If he dies, who will he show off his strength to?
Shiemi? Lol

But seriously, they're both going to live, and I hope we get a serious fight before they reconcile.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 04, 2018, 11:46:41 PM
But seriously, they're both going to live, and I hope we get a serious fight before they reconcile.
Yeah. Pretty much.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Karen on January 05, 2018, 03:57:46 AM
:'( Sadly, weather or not Rin & Yukio both survive, I think it's way to late for any kind of reconciliation now that we know Yukio only really cares about power and knowledge for himself, that and being better than Rin. Katou wouldn't be able to do it without looking like she's pulling it out of thin air.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: spicychickendeluxe on January 05, 2018, 04:23:44 AM
I still believe there will be reconciliation, kind of. Like said many times before, it'll be rough before that happens. 
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 05, 2018, 06:11:00 AM
Well he says : "I don't know what will happen when I go to the Illuminati. I might die too. In the unlikely event that (literally "a probability of one against ten thousand") we both survive, I will definitely become stronger than you."

So he knows Rin might die. If not from the broken sword, maybe from the order.

But Rin is surrounded by friends, leaving or staying might not make much of a difference in his chance of survival.

And he cares whether Rin survives or not. If he dies, who will he show off his strength to?

Oy vey. I could rationalize Yukio's "just die" from chapter 2 as an an expression of grief, since he kinda lost both his dad and his "human" brother in one night. But between this "yeah, you might die, I might as well, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" and how Yukio has no visible reaction to Satan gleefully announces his plan to take Rin's body, I think it's safe to say that Yukio is completely disconnected from Rin. He doesn't feel a thing right now towards Rin, not love, not even anger. His regard for Rin is nothing but twisted shallow admiration.

But... I think this is how he really has felt for some time. And it explains a lot. His reactions to Rin have never struck me as someone close, but as someone estranged reacting to shadows.

:'( Sadly, weather or not Rin & Yukio both survive, I think it's way to late for any kind of reconciliation now that we know Yukio only really cares about power and knowledge for himself, that and being better than Rin. Katou wouldn't be able to do it without looking like she's pulling it out of thin air.

I still believe there will be reconciliation, kind of. Like said many times before, it'll be rough before that happens. 

Yeah, this is gonna be tough to repair but not impossible. Yukio's demeanor on the helicopter isn't that of someone comfortable with what they've done. More like someone rationalizing. He doesn't necessarily regret, because there is no point, he can't unbreak Kurikara. What's done is done, and as far as he's concerned, the best thing he can do is remove himself from Rin and Shiemi's life. That way he won't keep hurting them. (Of course, it doesn't dawn on him that he could make up for it by helping, because he thinks himself fundamentally incapable of that.)

Given how Yukio pushed back Lucifer's flowery speech about world peace and won't get fried for it, to say nothing of how the Illuminati's tact with Yukio has been to push him to accept & be open about who he is, I'm thinking he'll be granted more latitude inside the Illuminati. Contrasts with the Order keeping Rin on a tight leash. It'd be interesting to see what he does with that freedom. I kinda wonder if his adversarial nature will lead him to clash with orders. Somewhat ironic if their blind encouragement of his darker side leads him to rebel against them.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: SKL on January 05, 2018, 07:00:21 AM
^Yeah Yukio has more latitude in the Illuminati than I originally thought. I knew they gave him an invite on presumed flexible terms so he wouldn't come in at Shima-level treatment at the very least.

But for Yukio to walk around like he's in charge and to talk like that to Lucifer...
He gets more latitude than I expected because he's pretty much walking around with Satan. There's Amaimon's behavior when he kicked Shiemi 'Don't get in Father's way', and Lucifer's 'My gratitude for bringing Father to me'. With Satan there, Yukio has a presence the demon kings have to defer to.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 05, 2018, 07:43:13 AM
^ The demon kings except for Samael. Mephisto knows what's going on and gives zero fucks. Probably because Satan is happy with him right now, since Samael is appearing to hold up his end of the bargain in training Rin so Rin's body can handle the flames. I wonder when Mephisto will break that agreement, because I'm pretty sure that he wants Rin as his own weapon to destroy Lucifer and Satan.

(Huge A flying warship with tons of weapons though... should we be worried?)

Yes. Yes we should. I'm pretty sure Katou saw Captain America Winter Soldier.

Anyway, just a random (not negative) thought about this chapter. Reading it again and staring at Yukio's bandage over his eye, I got suddenly reminded of Yukio's glasses solo pic from Kato-sama as a Happy Holidays artwork. GUYS (and GALS): I know that after that someone theorized Yukio might not need glasses anymore (for various reasons). But, if he's still gonna need them, well, he can't exactly "access" to his old "spares collection" in his dorm's room anymore, now can he? So, I think the reason Kato-sama drew that artwork could be that... she will not be drawing THOSE GLASSES anymore and that was actually a "goodbye" pic to them.

What if Yukio is still gonna need glasses and the Illuminati will provide him a new type? Like, a new design. Or, and I hope not, what if Yukio is gonna not only change glasses and uniform but... change style too? Like... his hair. I had this sudden thought and... I don't know how to feel about it! Bon and Shura (well, she didn't exacly do it on purpose) changed their hair style when they decided to "change" their life. So it looks like Kato-sama DOES like these kinda stuff. Argh. No, I don't even wanna think about it.

Why do I get an image of Saburota helpfully offering his glasses frames and Yukio punching him in the face. (Given how Yukio already strolled in and was like "Lucifer, you're full of shit", I am near 100% sure that the next time Yukio runs into Saburota, things will get violent fast.)

I had another thought at the bandage though. The more Yukio goes crazy, the more he seems to accumulate injuries. I  mean, he started fine, then he got a bandaged arm, then a bandaged eye. At this rate, he'll look like a mummy by the end of the manga! XD

But seriously, yeah, I am stoked for how Yukio's appearance will change. I'm sure he'll have glasses, because that's an integral part of his appearance. But otherwise? Hm...
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Wikkelsoee on January 05, 2018, 08:22:30 AM
^ Oh no, I just realised we need to use Toudou's first name when talking about him... Unless we all agree that Toudou is Saburota and Boss Lady is Homare?

And about Yukio's appearance: As long as he won't get emo hair (like covering his bad eye, lots of spikes) I'm in for almost everything.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 05, 2018, 09:52:09 AM
^ I'll call him "old Toudou" to distinguish from "new Toudou" = boss lady

Why do I get an image of Saburota helpfully offering his glasses frames and Yukio punching him in the face. (Given how Yukio already strolled in and was like "Lucifer, you're full of shit", I am near 100% sure that the next time Yukio runs into Saburota, things will get violent fast.)
Because I still stick on my interpretation (http://www.theblueknight.host-ed.me/forum/index.php/topic,54.msg31789.html#msg31789) of the Toudou-Yukio relationship, I don't expect to see much interesting interaction in the future. Moreover, now it seems like old Toudou's words about Yukio were not too wrong, so I don't see why Yukio has to be angry. I think their remaining problem is that old Toudou once tried to kill Yukio, so Yukio might find some way to revenge for it.

^ The demon kings except for Samael. Mephisto knows what's going on and gives zero fucks. Probably because Satan is happy with him right now, since Samael is appearing to hold up his end of the bargain in training Rin so Rin's body can handle the flames. I wonder when Mephisto will break that agreement, because I'm pretty sure that he wants Rin as his own weapon to destroy Lucifer and Satan.
Mephiso doesn't have to do anything. What Satan gets is nothing more than a fake promise. Even after Rin's body becomes strong enough to endure the flame, who knows when will Satan has the chance to possess Rin? (Maybe after 20 years when Rin also has a son and he is yelled by his son.) Mephisto clearly has advantage in this deal.

(I don't think we are sure Mephisto intends to "destroy" Satan for it seems impossible to do that. He only need to prevent Satan from get a body. And I do believe there might be some mechanism that all demon kings can't directly disobey Satan)

Wait, does Satan say "That's an interesting woman..." after Shiemi gets kicked? If true, that foreshadowing makes me very uncomfortable... :o
Rather than after getting kicked, it's more after she told Yukio not to leave.

To me it sounded like a father-son conversation where the father is like "nice girl for you" (not for himself) and the son is like "don't get involved".
Though I like this headcanon, to me Satan's comment sounds more like "How amusing(
面白い) this weak girl thinks she can stop me"

My own headcanon is that Satan prefers mature woman.


In fact he has just broken Komaken without knowing what would happen to Rin. He doesn't know even if his brother could die bc of this, and instead of being worried he just joins the bad crew.
Satan broke Koumaken, not Yukio.
And he still doesn't mind if this kills Rin, he just takes off before knowing if he's okey.

He just shot his brother. It’s more like he expects him to recover.
Well he says : "I don't know what will happen when I go to the Illuminati. I might die too. In the unlikely event that (literally "a probability of one against ten thousand") we both survive, I will definitely become stronger than you."

So he knows Rin might die. If not from the broken sword, maybe from the order.

But Rin is surrounded by friends, leaving or staying might not make much of a difference in his chance of survival.

And he cares whether Rin survives or not. If he dies, who will he show off his strength to?

Oy vey. I could rationalize Yukio's "just die" from chapter 2 as an an expression of grief, since he kinda lost both his dad and his "human" brother in one night. But between this "yeah, you might die, I might as well, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" and how Yukio has no visible reaction to Satan gleefully announces his plan to take Rin's body, I think it's safe to say that Yukio is completely disconnected from Rin. He doesn't feel a thing right now towards Rin, not love, not even anger. His regard for Rin is nothing but twisted shallow admiration.

But... I think this is how he really has felt for some time. And it explains a lot. His reactions to Rin have never struck me as someone close, but as someone estranged reacting to shadows.
Yes, the problem is not he wants Rin die or he doesn't save Rin, but it's that Yukio's reaction this chapter kind of an ultimate prove that Yukio doesn't feel Rin as a family member, but more like a competitor in a competition.

Although we shouldn't surprise since Yukio already shoot Rin last chapter and the hint was already there in chapter 2. Or it was also in the funeral scene in chapter 1 when Yukio just walked away. So far, Yukio's protection on Rin could only because he has promised Shiro.

:'( Sadly, weather or not Rin & Yukio both survive, I think it's way to late for any kind of reconciliation now that we know Yukio only really cares about power and knowledge for himself, that and being better than Rin. Katou wouldn't be able to do it without looking like she's pulling it out of thin air.

I still believe there will be reconciliation, kind of. Like said many times before, it'll be rough before that happens. 

Yeah, this is gonna be tough to repair but not impossible. Yukio's demeanor on the helicopter isn't that of someone comfortable with what they've done. More like someone rationalizing.
It depends on what a "reconciliation" or "happy ending" means. I think we will have an ending that Yukio apologize to everyone and stay as a good person, but he and Rin won't live together and won't be so close as before.

Contrasts with the Order keeping Rin on a tight leash. It'd be interesting to see what he does with that freedom. I kinda wonder if his adversarial nature will lead him to clash with orders. Somewhat ironic if their blind encouragement of his darker side leads him to rebel against them.
It could be that The Illuminati has flat organization hierarchy and people can freely talk to Lucifer with their own preferred style (Shima was also very casual in chapter 56). It makes sense if people join Illuminati because they hate bureaucracy of the Order.

Anyway, I believe Lucifer and other Illuminati members are aware the possibility that Yukio will against them (even if they didn't, they should know after the end of this chapter).
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 05, 2018, 11:50:20 AM


In fact he has just broken Komaken without knowing what would happen to Rin. He doesn't know even if his brother could die bc of this, and instead of being worried he just joins the bad crew.
Satan broke Koumaken, not Yukio.
And he still doesn't mind if this kills Rin, he just takes off before knowing if he's okey.

He just shot his brother. It’s more like he expects him to recover.
Well he says : "I don't know what will happen when I go to the Illuminati. I might die too. In the unlikely event that (literally "a probability of one against ten thousand") we both survive, I will definitely become stronger than you."

So he knows Rin might die. If not from the broken sword, maybe from the order.

But Rin is surrounded by friends, leaving or staying might not make much of a difference in his chance of survival.

And he cares whether Rin survives or not. If he dies, who will he show off his strength to?

Oy vey. I could rationalize Yukio's "just die" from chapter 2 as an an expression of grief, since he kinda lost both his dad and his "human" brother in one night. But between this "yeah, you might die, I might as well, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" and how Yukio has no visible reaction to Satan gleefully announces his plan to take Rin's body, I think it's safe to say that Yukio is completely disconnected from Rin. He doesn't feel a thing right now towards Rin, not love, not even anger. His regard for Rin is nothing but twisted shallow admiration.

But... I think this is how he really has felt for some time. And it explains a lot. His reactions to Rin have never struck me as someone close, but as someone estranged reacting to shadows.
Yes, the problem is not he wants Rin die or he doesn't save Rin, but it's that Yukio's reaction this chapter kind of an ultimate prove that Yukio doesn't feel Rin as a family member, but more like a competitor in a competition.

Although we shouldn't surprise since Yukio already shoot Rin last chapter and the hint was already there in chapter 2. Or it was also in the funeral scene in chapter 1 when Yukio just walked away. So far, Yukio's protection on Rin could only because he has promised Shiro.

:'( Sadly, weather or not Rin & Yukio both survive, I think it's way to late for any kind of reconciliation now that we know Yukio only really cares about power and knowledge for himself, that and being better than Rin. Katou wouldn't be able to do it without looking like she's pulling it out of thin air.

I still believe there will be reconciliation, kind of. Like said many times before, it'll be rough before that happens. 

Yeah, this is gonna be tough to repair but not impossible. Yukio's demeanor on the helicopter isn't that of someone comfortable with what they've done. More like someone rationalizing.
It depends on what a "reconciliation" or "happy ending" means. I think we will have an ending that Yukio apologize to everyone and stay as a good person, but he and Rin won't live together and won't be so close as before.


I don't think they were close before. Yukio was disillusioned while Rin was comforted by an illusion (as Shiro was perpetuating the belief that he and everything was normal, and Yukio helped pretend because he was "protecting Rin"), so while Yukio disconnected from his brother, Rin was made to believe everything was ok. Now Rin is seeing they weren't as close as he thought since it's clicking that Yukio hasn't relied on him at all--that it's no longer the way it was when they were children. That's why the emphasis on the flashbacks how Yukio slaps Rin's hand away. To me, when the ending comes around, they'll actually be closer than before because the truth has been laid bare.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 05, 2018, 12:23:09 PM
I think we will have an ending that Yukio apologize to everyone and stay as a good person, but he and Rin won't live together and won't be so close as before.

I could be wrong, but from my point of view, Yukio and Rin have never been THAT close to begin with (I'm talking about what we see in the manga from chapter 1). If they ever were, the only moment I can think of that's shown to us is chapter 2 flashback where Rin finds out Yukio wants to become a doctor, encourages him and we see the most (nah, scratch that, the -only-) genuine Yukio's smile out of this entire manga.

At the time, Yukio didn't react to Rin helping him. He didn't push him away. I guess this happened before Yukio started to feel frustrated over Rin helping him. But the moment he shoved Rin's hand away (and I think they were about 6 or 7 yrs old, right before or at the beginning of Yukio's training) was the moment any kind of close relationship they ever had started to crack.

And after that, it was just Yukio lying to Rin about his feels, the truths he knew, about literally everything. I want to blame Shiro (and I may be partially or completely wrong), so I'd say it was not by Yukio's free choice. But, from that point, their relationship was not "genuine" anymore. So if they ever WERE genuinely close, it didn't last that much and could prolly be considered just as pure brotherly affection of two very young siblings which has yet to determine their life route or even their true personalities/desires and so on.

So I kinda don't count that as "proof they've ever BEEN a -real- close couple of brothers". I repeat, at least for what concerns Yukio. But this is exactly the reason why I "like" to think (yeah, I'm trying to be really positive again) they may end up (by the end of the manga) ACTUALLY becoming close for the very first time. My idea of "development" (very rough and I know I'm wrong) it's: picking "something" and turning it into "something else" by the end of the story. Usually, the complete opposite of what it was at the beginning.

If Rin and Yukio were never actually that close from the start, a development could be having them challenge a lot of struggles which will turn them into close brothers by the end. Oc it'd take ages and a lot of work and so on. But, again, this is what I like to think/hope.


Edit:
I don't think they were close before. Yukio was disillusioned while Rin was comforted by an illusion (as Shiro was perpetuating the belief that he and everything was normal, and Yukio helped pretend because he was "protecting Rin"), so while Yukio disconnected from his brother, Rin was made to believe everything was ok. Now Rin is seeing they weren't as close as he thought since it's clicking that Yukio hasn't relied on him at all--that it's no longer the way it was when they were children. That's why the emphasis on the flashbacks how Yukio slaps Rin's hand away. To me, when the ending comes around, they'll actually be closer than before because the truth has been laid bare.

I read this after I posted my comment. Lol, we roughly thought the same thing (and I'm glad about it)
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 05, 2018, 03:05:03 PM
Wait, does Satan say "That's an interesting woman..." after Shiemi gets kicked? If true, that foreshadowing makes me very uncomfortable... :o
Rather than after getting kicked, it's more after she told Yukio not to leave.

To me it sounded like a father-son conversation where the father is like "nice girl for you" (not for himself) and the son is like "don't get involved".
Though I like this headcanon, to me Satan's comment sounds more like "How amusing (面白い) this weak girl thinks she can stop me"
But he didn't say "面白い女だ" = "This is an interesting girl."
He said "面白い女がいる" = "(You) have an interesting woman" / "This is an interesting woman (you)'ve got there."
He also ends with "な"="hun?" to ask Yukio what he thinks and tease him too.
Even if he would have only said "面白い女だ", the "な" would have still made it sound like he's teasing Yukio since he's asking his opinion.

And Yukio's response is " ...... That's enough...!"
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 05, 2018, 03:56:01 PM
It depends on what a "reconciliation" or "happy ending" means. I think we will have an ending that Yukio apologize to everyone and stay as a good person, but he and Rin won't live together and won't be so close as before.


I don't think they were close before. Yukio was disillusioned while Rin was comforted by an illusion (as Shiro was perpetuating the belief that he and everything was normal, and Yukio helped pretend because he was "protecting Rin"), so while Yukio disconnected from his brother, Rin was made to believe everything was ok.
I think we will have an ending that Yukio apologize to everyone and stay as a good person, but he and Rin won't live together and won't be so close as before.

I could be wrong, but from my point of view, Yukio and Rin have never been THAT close to begin with (I'm talking about what we see in the manga from chapter 1).
Oh, I didn't mean mentally close. I know they are always like "WTF my brother is thinking" and even felt each other annoying. When I say "close" I literally mean they live together, Rin cook for Yukio and ask him when he will be home, or Yukio give Rin medicine when he is injured and reminds him about the hanging execution or not to rely on the flame too much.

One of the possible ending I imagine is that even after Yukio is back to the human side and both of them are exorcists and hence colleague, they avoid to meet each other and only communicate politely through their common friends (I mean the exwires) when necessary. I won't regard that as "closer" than they were. (Though that's still a happy end in my standard)

Wait, does Satan say "That's an interesting woman..." after Shiemi gets kicked? If true, that foreshadowing makes me very uncomfortable... :o
Rather than after getting kicked, it's more after she told Yukio not to leave.

To me it sounded like a father-son conversation where the father is like "nice girl for you" (not for himself) and the son is like "don't get involved".
Though I like this headcanon, to me Satan's comment sounds more like "How amusing (面白い) this weak girl thinks she can stop me"
But he didn't say "面白い女だ" = "This is an interesting girl."
He said "面白い女がいる" = "(You) have an interesting woman" / "This is an interesting woman (you)'ve got there."
He also ends with "な"="hun?" to ask Yukio what he thinks and tease him too.
Even if he would have only said "面白い女だ", the "な" would have still made it sound like he's teasing Yukio since he's asking his opinion.

And Yukio's response is " ...... That's enough...!"
Japanese is difficult ...

But could it be like Satan means something like "Don't you think (your friend/student) is an amusing girl?"

My problem is I don't see anything in Shiemi that Satan would find interesting to compliment her... and I feel Yukio's reaction is like he doesn't want Satan to notice Shiemi in any way
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 05, 2018, 04:39:45 PM
But could it be like Satan means something like "Don't you think (your friend/student) is an amusing girl?"
Then he would have said "友だち" for "friend" or "学生" for "student".

"面白い友だちがいるな" "That's an interesting friend you've got there."
"面白い学生がいるな" "That's an interesting student you've got there."
"その友だちは面白い女だな" "Your friend is an amusing girl, hun?"
"その友だちは面白い女だと思わないか" "Don't you think your friend is an amusing girl?"

My problem is I don't see anything in Shiemi that Satan would find interesting to compliment her... and I feel Yukio's reaction is like he doesn't want Satan to notice Shiemi in any way
She told him not to leave "雪ちゃん... 行っちゃダメだよ...!!" i.e. "行ってしまうのはだめですよ" = "It is not-good/unacceptable for you to end up leaving".
And she sent her greenman tie him up.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 05, 2018, 04:52:52 PM
^ Why do I feel like Satan could take on Shura's "let's-relentlessly-tease-this-kiddo" role from now on? (if he'll keep talking and won't turn into "silent mode" again (which I doubt, since Lucifer is THAT happy Yukio "brought" Father to him)

Or it was also in the funeral scene in chapter 1 when Yukio just walked away.

My opinion about this part is that Yukio might have walked away 'cause he knew Mephisto was about to show up and he didn't want to "make it clear" they had a connection just yet (or didn't want to hear what those two could've talked about/was ordered to stay away).

And about Yukio's appearance: As long as he won't get emo hair (like covering his bad eye, lots of spikes) I'm in for almost everything.

I always considered Rin's hair to have a "emo" style (well, they DO stand in his eyes way (Suguro: "That's why I gave him an hair pin!")). So I believe (and I hope) Yukio won't get THAT kinda emo cut. Well, without glasses on and with slightly longer hair, the only way we could tell the twins apart left would be Yukio's moles... WAIT, what if this is the reason Kato-sama gave him moles in the first place?!

Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Karen on January 05, 2018, 05:10:20 PM
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Oy vey. I could rationalize Yukio's "just die" from chapter 2 as an an expression of grief, since he kinda lost both his dad and his "human" brother in one night. But between this "yeah, you might die, I might as well, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" and how Yukio has no visible reaction to Satan gleefully announces his plan to take Rin's body, I think it's safe to say that Yukio is completely disconnected from Rin. He doesn't feel a thing right now towards Rin, not love, not even anger. His regard for Rin is nothing but twisted shallow admiration.
But... I think this is how he really has felt for some time. And it explains a lot. His reactions to Rin have never struck me as someone close, but as someone estranged reacting to shadows.


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Yukio doesn't feel Rin as a family member, but more like a competitor in a competition.
Although we shouldn't surprise since Yukio already shoot Rin last chapter and the hint was already there in chapter 2. Or it was also in the funeral scene in chapter 1 when Yukio just walked away. So far, Yukio's protection on Rin could only because he has promised Shiro.

I agree. you're absolutely right on this one. If this is how manga Yukio feels about Rin than I'm pretty much through with him. He can just go and die himself. Rin would be better off since he has Shiemi and the others (minus Shima) genuinely good people who really care and really are there for him.

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I "like" to think (yeah, I'm trying to be really positive again) they may end up (by the end of the manga) ACTUALLY becoming close for the very first time. My idea of "development" (very rough and I know I'm wrong) it's: picking "something" and turning it into "something else" by the end of the story. Usually, the complete opposite of what it was at the beginning.

If Rin and Yukio were never actually that close from the start, a development could be having them challenge a lot of struggles which will turn them into close brothers by the end. Oc it'd take ages and a lot of work and so on. But, again, this is what I like to think/hope.

Sorry, I'm not optimistic. I think it's way way to late for that kind of positive development now. As I said before, I doubt it could ever be believable and not look like it was pulled out of thin air. The Okumuras will never have as good and close relationship as the Elrics. 😞
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 05, 2018, 05:16:29 PM
It depends on what a "reconciliation" or "happy ending" means. I think we will have an ending that Yukio apologize to everyone and stay as a good person, but he and Rin won't live together and won't be so close as before.


I don't think they were close before. Yukio was disillusioned while Rin was comforted by an illusion (as Shiro was perpetuating the belief that he and everything was normal, and Yukio helped pretend because he was "protecting Rin"), so while Yukio disconnected from his brother, Rin was made to believe everything was ok.
I think we will have an ending that Yukio apologize to everyone and stay as a good person, but he and Rin won't live together and won't be so close as before.

I could be wrong, but from my point of view, Yukio and Rin have never been THAT close to begin with (I'm talking about what we see in the manga from chapter 1).
Oh, I didn't mean mentally close. I know they are always like "WTF my brother is thinking" and even felt each other annoying. When I say "close" I literally mean they live together, Rin cook for Yukio and ask him when he will be home, or Yukio give Rin medicine when he is injured and reminds him about the hanging execution or not to rely on the flame too much.

One of the possible ending I imagine is that even after Yukio is back to the human side and both of them are exorcists and hence colleague, they avoid to meet each other and only communicate politely through their common friends (I mean the exwires) when necessary. I won't regard that as "closer" than they were. (Though that's still a happy end in my standard)


I don’t think that’ll be true. I know everyone pushes certain things away, considering them not canon. I think of Kato-sama like Rowling. Nothing happens in her universe without her approval. I believe I’ve seen somewhere—I don’t remember where, that she considers “Salaryman Yukio” to be a parallel universe, thus making that one not canon. The ending of the anime conveys that they will connect in a way that their powers will work together, for that I believe they will have to be close. Even Mephisto rejoices. Again, we’ve spotted that this is what the manga is approaching, so the “Original” ending isn’t so original anymore. The difference is how we get there. The novels—I do think are a part of her universe. It’s got some serious undertones but sometimes make me think of filler episodes sometimes.

Another clue I use is actually the merchandise. This is a stretch, I know, since they’ll put together anything to make a buck. Her art that she posts gives us clues, so why not this (https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/aonoexorcist/images/6/68/Werewolf_Card_Game_Yukio_Okumura.png/revision/latest?cb=20160615010633). /shrug

This Yukio card has a demon motif going on. This is still an exorcist card, but it has the coloring of the major opponents (and I do think of Amaimon as one since he’s a thorn and only working for Mephisto). Satan’s card is an eyeball on the left side with flames. Shiemi’s card she is holding a dekalp, and in the anime she has a tribe of greenmen helping her...so I wonder where that one is going. Mephisto is holding what looks to be a human heart and a demon heart which, to me, eludes to Rin’s choice/predicament and how he controls it.

I’m sure you’re thinking I’m making too much of a stretch, but hey, that’s what makes figuring things out so fun.

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Wait, does Satan say "That's an interesting woman..." after Shiemi gets kicked? If true, that foreshadowing makes me very uncomfortable... :o
Rather than after getting kicked, it's more after she told Yukio not to leave.

To me it sounded like a father-son conversation where the father is like "nice girl for you" (not for himself) and the son is like "don't get involved".
Though I like this headcanon, to me Satan's comment sounds more like "How amusing (面白い) this weak girl thinks she can stop me"
But he didn't say "面白い女だ" = "This is an interesting girl."
He said "面白い女がいる" = "(You) have an interesting woman" / "This is an interesting woman (you)'ve got there."
He also ends with "な"="hun?" to ask Yukio what he thinks and tease him too.
Even if he would have only said "面白い女だ", the "な" would have still made it sound like he's teasing Yukio since he's asking his opinion.

And Yukio's response is " ...... That's enough...!"
Japanese is difficult ...

But could it be like Satan means something like "Don't you think (your friend/student) is an amusing girl?"

My problem is I don't see anything in Shiemi that Satan would find interesting to compliment her... and I feel Yukio's reaction is like he doesn't want Satan to notice Shiemi in any way

I think he sees something we don’t see yet, and it’s a nod to her secret I bet. Also, he probably knows she has meaning to Yukio and points it out that he knows.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 05, 2018, 05:48:45 PM
Sorry, I'm not optimistic. I think it's way way to late for that kind of positive development now. As I said before, I doubt it could ever be believable and not look like it was pulled out of thin air. The Okumuras will never have as good and close relationship as the Elrics. 😞

I'm trying to be positive in another way too. It's likely there're still about 60-70 chapters to go (Kato-sama stated that the first half of the manga was complete around the time of the Aomori arc) and considering how quick-paced the last chapters are going, a looooooot could happen in 60-70 more chapters. I think that's plenty of time to do something that big.

The ending of the anime conveys that they will connect in a way that their powers will work together, for that I believe they will have to be close. Even Mephisto rejoices. Again, we’ve spotted that this is what the manga is approaching, so the “Original” ending isn’t so original anymore. The difference is how we get there.

This gave me another hope to hang to (I never considered it like this), so just let me hug you.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 05, 2018, 06:00:25 PM
Thanks chino for the more detailed translation. Sounds like Satan finds it interesting that Shiemi is trying to stop Yukio. Tbf, it is one hell of a ballsy move, trying to literally pull back Yukio when Satan's power is currently active and just disabled Rin. Heck, Yukio's first reaction to getting tied up by Niichan was anger that only ceased when he looked at Shiemi.

And it bugs Yukio, not only the teasing, but probably the realization of "I do NOT want her to get wrapped up in this mess". Even if Satan is going "interesting woman you've got there", Satan has no compunctions about taking what belongs to his sons. Case it point, Rin's body.

Yet again I wonder how long Satan has been observing through Yukio's left eye. We've gotten a confirm he can only see through the left. Can he only see when the eyes change, or can he also watch when they're normal? The mental link to Yukio seems to be always active, given how Yukio kept hearing his voice despite his eyes looking the same in chapter 93. Makes his comments about Shiemi even more unsettling because Satan would've had the front row seat to their relationship disintegrating.

How much did you know, Shiro...

I agree. you're absolutely right on this one. If this is how manga Yukio feels about Rin than I'm pretty much through with him. He can just go and die himself. Rin would be better off since he has Shiemi and the others (minus Shima) genuinely good people who really care and really are there for him.

I don't want Yukio to die. That'd be like letting the current him win, since he doesn't fear death. He actively welcomes it. If he dies, it'll mean that he has succeeded in running away from his life and problems for good. No. I want Yukio to be dragged through the dirt, beaten and bloody. I want him to have to go through the pain and shame of living with what he's done. I want him to suffer and learn how self-destruction has hurt people around him. I want him to learn the fear that Rin has to live with every day -- the cost of going out of control. I want Yukio to be proven wrong.

I said he doesn't feel love, not that it isn't in him. It's buried deep, along with the tears and grief he's separated from himself for so long that he can't even feel anymore.

Yukio has never cried in the story so far despite everything. Katou's been saving that for something big.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 05, 2018, 06:55:14 PM
And it bugs Yukio, not only the teasing, but probably the realization of "I do NOT want her to get wrapped up in this mess". Even if Satan is going "interesting woman you've got there", Satan has no compunctions about taking what belongs to his sons. Case in point, Rin's body.
Point granted.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 05, 2018, 06:56:26 PM
Yukio has never cried in the story so far despite everything. Katou's been saving that for something big.

This I believe too. He is high up on his horse right now which only speaks of a hard fall. Sometimes my mind translates it to Yukio watching the lights of someone’s (someone important to him) eyes die out—but I’m negative and angsty that way. Right now that someone is Rin (and something else happened for that bridge to start to be rebuilt), and the happy ending part of it involves the freeing of Karura and as thanks revives Rin (being a phoenix and all). The other idea I had was Yuri still being alive, and she tells Yukio the story and dies soon after. So many ideas that can be fanfiction.... maybe I should try to write it. I just don’t have confidence in writing.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Karen on January 05, 2018, 06:57:03 PM
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I don't want Yukio to die. That'd be like letting the current him win, since he doesn't fear death. He actively welcomes it. If he dies, it'll mean that he has succeeded in running away from his life and problems for good. No. I want Yukio to be dragged through the dirt, beaten and bloody. I want him to have to go through the pain and shame of living with what he's done. I want him to suffer and learn how self-destruction has hurt people around him. I want him to learn the fear that Rin has to live with every day -- the cost of going out of control. I want Yukio to be proven wrong.

You can't cure a rabid animal. Sorry, but now there's only one thing that can be done....and Rin and the others would be better off without him too.

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I said he doesn't feel love, not that it isn't in him. It's buried deep, along with the tears and grief he's separated from himself for so long that he can't even feel anymore.

If you can't feel it, than it sure as heck isn't in you. Never was and never will be.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 05, 2018, 07:07:26 PM
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I don't want Yukio to die. That'd be like letting the current him win, since he doesn't fear death. He actively welcomes it. If he dies, it'll mean that he has succeeded in running away from his life and problems for good. No. I want Yukio to be dragged through the dirt, beaten and bloody. I want him to have to go through the pain and shame of living with what he's done. I want him to suffer and learn how self-destruction has hurt people around him. I want him to learn the fear that Rin has to live with every day -- the cost of going out of control. I want Yukio to be proven wrong.

You can't cure a rabid animal. Sorry, but now there's only one thing that can be done....and Rin and the others would be better off without him too.

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I said he doesn't feel love, not that it isn't in him. It's buried deep, along with the tears and grief he's separated from himself for so long that he can't even feel anymore.

If you can't feel it, than it sure as heck isn't in you. Never was and never will be.

Wow. Someone really hates Yukio, and nothing we say will convince you otherwise. It is a common anime trope to explore the fall of humanity and its redemption, and I see no different with Yukio. But sorry you have given up on him that you can’t be flexible.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Madow on January 05, 2018, 07:20:25 PM
There's truth in what Karen is saying though. I think you're forgetting that just because a character is evil it doesn't make them an actual bad character. Yukio's a great, layered and complex character but you cant deny he's so selfish and disconnected in despite of what all his friends have tried to do for him. He literally admitted to being evil at this point in time, it might change and it might not. Can't tell if Kato is purposely going straight into a cliche by having a redemption arc being set up or if she's gonna barge right through and have him be a villain to the bitter end
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 05, 2018, 07:24:59 PM
I'm happy to hear from someone who is pissed with Yukio. He's fun to hate. Plus, I think Karen likes to troll us.  ;D

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I said he doesn't feel love, not that it isn't in him. It's buried deep, along with the tears and grief he's separated from himself for so long that he can't even feel anymore.

If you can't feel it, than it sure as heck isn't in you. Never was and never will be.

If your arm goes numb, does that mean it isn't there? If you can't feel, then either you're right that it's missing, or you're so damaged that you can't connect to it.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 05, 2018, 07:30:39 PM
Sorry, I'm not optimistic. I think it's way way to late for that kind of positive development now. As I said before, I doubt it could ever be believable and not look like it was pulled out of thin air. The Okumuras will never have as good and close relationship as the Elrics. 😞

I'm trying to be positive in another way too. It's likely there're still about 60-70 chapters to go (Kato-sama stated that the first half of the manga was complete around the time of the Aomori arc) and considering how quick-paced the last chapters are going, a looooooot could happen in 60-70 more chapters. I think that's plenty of time to do something that big.

The ending of the anime conveys that they will connect in a way that their powers will work together, for that I believe they will have to be close. Even Mephisto rejoices. Again, we’ve spotted that this is what the manga is approaching, so the “Original” ending isn’t so original anymore. The difference is how we get there.

This gave me another hope to hang to (I never considered it like this), so just let me hug you.

I’m glad I can give you some positivity. The scene when they were talking on the beach is also one that I like. Rin asking more about Shiro, and Yukio saying sure, when you become an exorcist—with Rin in the mindset that they’ll be working together. To me, Yukio entertains the thought, but at the same time shows his darkside with “surpass me? that’s my line.”
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 05, 2018, 07:38:21 PM
There's truth in what Karen is saying though. I think you're forgetting that just because a character is evil it doesn't make them an actual bad character. Yukio's a great, layered and complex character but you cant deny he's so selfish and disconnected in despite of what all his friends have tried to do for him. He literally admitted to being evil at this point in time, it might change and it might not. Can't tell if Kato is purposely going straight into a cliche by having a redemption arc being set up or if she's gonna barge right through and have him be a villain to the bitter end

I hope not. I’m still bitter about Dragonlance. Twins, one strong (becomes a standard warrior-strength based) and the other sickly and weak (becomes a mage-intelligence based). Most of the series features the weak twin going from white mage to red mage to black mage—to a godlike status and then death, so it’s his progression from good to evil (and is possessed by the spirit of a powerful black mage—sound familiar? he gets powerful and prevents the possession and completely takes the spirit’s power as his own--hrm.) while everyone else journeys to retrieve the lances and fights the bad guys. In any case, I’m still holding onto the hope that they’ll be the blue exorcists together.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 05, 2018, 08:21:59 PM
^ Yukio a villan to the bitter end it's too predictable therefore unlikely, imo. His dying or not or even his reconciling or not with Rin it's not (always imo).

I don't want Yukio to die. That'd be like letting the current him win, since he doesn't fear death. He actively welcomes it. If he dies, it'll mean that he has succeeded in running away from his life and problems for good. No. I want Yukio to be dragged through the dirt, beaten and bloody. I want him to have to go through the pain and shame of living with what he's done. I want him to suffer and learn how self-destruction has hurt people around him. I want him to learn the fear that Rin has to live with every day -- the cost of going out of control. I want Yukio to be proven wrong.

I said he doesn't feel love, not that it isn't in him. It's buried deep, along with the tears and grief he's separated from himself for so long that he can't even feel anymore.

Yukio has never cried in the story so far despite everything. Katou's been saving that for something big.

And let me hug you too, earthy.

So many ideas that can be fanfiction.... maybe I should try to write it. I just don’t have confidence in writing

I understand completely (and I got a problem with confidence in writing a fanfic (in -English- in particular) too) but if you're good at it (and I guess so from your comments (sorry, I don't know where are you from)) I totally encourage you to.

Back to the chapter, let's change topic a lil. Back in chapter 96 we had this angry/mad/raging Rin trying to slice Yukio up (who worried me big time) and I still thank Kato-Kami-sama for that bless in chapter 97 which was having Rin conscious enough after his berserk attempt to still be able to understand/hold a lil conversation with Yukio (and Satan!) for a while before shet went bad. I focused so much on the negative vibes I got from this chapter, I put the positive ones aside. But now that I'm kinda over the negative ones, I'd like to comment on the positive ones again.

The very first panel of chapter 97 gives us a perfect view of Rin's face. And I'm glad about it. We can literally get the feeling that Rin's TOTALLY out of it. Maybe this was the real problem I had with chapter 96. Rin's expressions in the last 5 pages didn't struck me as "completely blinded" so I got this STRONG feeling Rin was very serious about his "trying to kill Yukio" attempt. But that first page made me feel like I was wrong.

Well, okay. The sword breaks and Rin is sent backwards to the floor. And, he finally regains consciousness. At first reading, I was kinda mad at him for not commenting what he just did/risked to do and worried about his sword first. But, after reading the chapter again, I think this sequence is acceptable (ummmmm).

Let's say Rin didn't have time to actually process what he just did and/or comment it (I was expecting something like "Did I just charge Yukio?"/"What did I just do?"/"Was I really trying to kill him?"/"Is Yukio okay?" etc etc) and the first thing he noticed when he lifted his gaze was the half sword at Yukio's feet. Rin even heard a voice while charging Yukio but said nothing about it eith- oooookay, I don't want to make a fuss over this, so stop.

The BIG MOMENT I've (and a lot of us) been waiting for ages: Rin finally hears Satan's voice. Oh, my. Rin's reaction is the most obvious one ("Is Yukio possessed?"). I can't remember how many times I tried to imagine how this scene would happen (if it ever did (Kato-sama, you were making me -seriously- worry this moment could've never come)) and it was a dream come true to finally see it. Even if I expected a more "shocked" reaction from Rin. But the scene is good the same.

And, it turns even better (imo). 'Cause... seriously, Rin trying to talk to Yukio through the pain it's all I could wish for to raise my hopes Rin, at least so it seems or I like to believe, already got over his rage status toward Yukio. Be it 'cause discovering about Satan being somehow connected to Yukio made him believe there's prolly more behind Yukio's behaviour after all or any other reason, I don't particularly care.

I kinda don't like the feeling I get from Rin being unable to add anything else 'cause of the growing pain. It kinda leaves the situation a lil "ambiguous" imo. I mean, Rin does try to call Yukio a couple times (it's all he can manage to say) but, even if I have the feeling he's not mad at him anymore, I think there's too lil to really tell if he's ACTUALLY not.

I mean, it looks obvious, maybe. But I still don't feel 100% sure about it. If I want to keep thinking positive, well, I think I should focus over the fact Rin looks like he's screaming at Yukio to not go. But I also get the feeling he may be calling him as in: "We're not done talking yet!" and Rin's still angry and... okay, I think I'm exaggerating. *stop stop*

I also have the tiny feeling this lil panel here could be the key to interpret Rin's feelings toward Yukio's declaration before he leaves and his leaving in general. But I got more than one interpretation to it:

(https://image.ibb.co/m5rRwb/wut.png)

Moral: what do you think about Rin's possible "mood" toward Yukio once he'll be feeling better after what happened in this chapter?
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 05, 2018, 11:19:51 PM
Yukio might not need glasses anymore (for various reasons). But, if he's still gonna need them, well, he can't exactly "access" to his old "spares collection" in his dorm's room anymore, now can he?
Why do I get an image of Saburota helpfully offering his glasses frames and Yukio punching him in the face. (Given how Yukio already strolled in and was like "Lucifer, you're full of shit", I am near 100% sure that the next time Yukio runs into Saburota, things will get violent fast.)
Glasses-less Yukio enters Homare's office and punches through the life-size portrait of Saburota she has on her wall.
... is what just went through my head...

And about Yukio's appearance: As long as he won't get emo hair (like covering his bad eye, lots of spikes) I'm in for almost everything.
Anything but emo hair. It would be like Spiderman 3 all over again.

I always considered Rin's hair to have a "emo" style
No way. An emo hair style is when it covers only one eye.

So I believe (and I hope) Yukio won't get THAT kinda emo cut. Well, without glasses on and with slightly longer hair, the only way we could tell the twins apart left would be Yukio's moles... WAIT, what if this is the reason Kato-sama gave him moles in the first place?!
That reminds me that fight scene in Devil May Cry where Dante fights against Vergil in the rain.
At half life the weather defeats his hairdo, and you realize they look alike more than you initially thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQeRRZv8YcM

^ Why do I feel like Satan could take on Shura's "let's-relentlessly-tease-this-kiddo" role from now on? (if he'll keep talking and won't turn into "silent mode" again (which I doubt, since Lucifer is THAT happy Yukio "brought" Father to him)
That could be interesting. Thought I'd take any type of interaction, really. I've wanted to see more of Satan for a long time.

I'm happy to hear from someone who is pissed with Yukio. He's fun to hate. Plus, I think Karen likes to troll us.  ;D
You think? I've given up on talking with Karen a long time ago.

I also have the tiny feeling this lil panel here could be the key to interpret Rin's feelings toward Yukio's declaration before he leaves and his leaving in general. But I got more than one interpretation to it:

(https://image.ibb.co/m5rRwb/wut.png)
All I can see is mostly pain. The text is also only his raspy breathing.

Moral: what do you think about Rin's possible "mood" toward Yukio once he'll be feeling better after what happened in this chapter?
I think it didn't change much from what it was in recent chapters. He wants to help him, even if that means being rough with him. He's not really mad, this just looks like tough love to me.

I don't think they were close before.
Yukio and Rin have never been THAT close to begin with
Many people say that. But I think people can be close even if they don't get along and even if they're not on good terms. And I think some of you might be mixing these up.
I had many sorts of relationships in my life, and I've come to the understanding that no matter how good or bad a relationship can be at any given time, the feeling of being close or not to someone is something that only steadily increase and never decreases. Even if the situation change, or even if the other person change, the more you interact with them, the more you feel like they're part of your life and, sometimes, the more you feel responsible for what happens to them.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 06, 2018, 12:58:11 AM
I don't think they were close before.
Yukio and Rin have never been THAT close to begin with
Many people say that. But I think people can be close even if they don't get along and even if they're not on good terms. And I think some of you might be mixing these up.
I had many sorts of relationships in my life, and I've come to the understanding that no matter how good or bad a relationship can be at any given time, the feeling of being close or not to someone is something that only steadily increase and never decreases. Even if the situation change, or even if the other person change, the more you interact with them, the more you feel like they're part of your life and, sometimes, the more you feel responsible for what happens to them.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that. I used to be close to my brother, but now he’s dead to me. I don’t feel responsible at all for the direction he turned his life to, but I do feel sorry for his son because he has that burden. Nothing further. So just because you’re close at one point doesn’t mean you’ll stay close even though you interact on a daily basis.

But for Yukio and Rin, their relationship is the focus of the manga. Not just one character or the other. Some feel Rin is THE blue exorcist because he bears the blue flames while Yukio is just a supporting character—because it’s Rin’s thing and it’ll cheapen it if Yukio has it too. ::) I feel they are both equally important and both are intended to be the blue exorcists. If Rin just gives up on Yukio or Yukio just becomes the irredeemable villain then there is really no point to the rest of the story.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Karen on January 06, 2018, 01:23:06 AM
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Wow. Someone really hates Yukio, and nothing we say will convince you otherwise. It is a common anime trope to explore the fall of humanity and its redemption, and I see no different with Yukio. But sorry you have given up on him that you can’t be flexible.

I guess I'm not that flexible and have pretty high standards, true. To me, a character like Alphonse Elric meets those standards, especially for familial love. Yukio doesn't. If Rin, Yukio and Shiemi were more like Ed, Al and Winry than I might feel differently. Right now, after 97 chapters, I just don't see anything redeemable or worth saving in Yukio, or anything about the twins relationship worth reconciling. Rin and the others are absolute saints if they can though. I'll give them that.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 06, 2018, 01:24:15 AM
I used to be close to my brother, but now he’s dead to me.
Maybe you are on bad terms, but if you crossed path one day, would you recognize him as your brother or would you really treat him as a stranger. It takes a lot of efforts to try and do the latter, because it's unnatural. The more you get involved with someone, the more you feel close to them. And the past can't be erased. That's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 06, 2018, 01:32:41 AM
I used to be close to my brother, but now he’s dead to me.
Maybe you are on bad terms, but if you crossed path one day, would you recognize him as your brother or would you really treat him as a stranger. It takes a lot of efforts to try and do the latter, because it's unnatural. The more you get involved with someone, the more you feel close to them. And the past can't be erased. That's all I'm saying.

We do encounter each other some time, and I treat him like I would a customer at work. Fake niceties, and then please go away. I understand what you’re saying, but there are things in this world that can’t be forgiven. While it seems the same is running for Yukio, I can only hope they can forgive each other.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 06, 2018, 02:08:25 AM
I think Rin and Yukio will work things out and build a relationship stronger than it has ever been. Even if they never completely get along or never completely get on good terms. Katou usually writes happy endings, I doubt she'll write a completely tragic ending for her biggest story yet.

EDIT: Karen keeps talking about the Elric Brothers, but if I had to compare Rin and Yukio to a brother duo that works, I would compare them to Sam and Dean from Supernatural. They really don't get along, but they keep working things out.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: BrilliantAkane on January 06, 2018, 03:26:46 AM
I have no doubt that Rin and Yukio will build an even stronger bond when all is said and done. I most curious how Rin's body will handle his enhanced powers now that his sword is broken. At the moment it doesn't seem like his body can handle it, but I feel like he has to eventually otherwise he's not much different from Mephisto and the other Demon Kings.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Karen on January 06, 2018, 03:53:00 AM
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I think Rin and Yukio will work things out and build a relationship stronger than it has ever been. Even if they never completely get along or never completely get on good terms.

One can always hope, but I can't see it happening now. And how is never completely getting along or never being on good terms a loving, close, strong relationship?

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EDIT: Karen keeps talking about the Elric Brothers, but if I had to compare Rin and Yukio to a brother duo that works, I would compare them to Sam and Dean from Supernatural. They really don't get along, but they keep working things out.

Have to disagree there. The situations may be similar, but it's clear Dean and Sam have always loved each other as family (and know each other better than anyone) to the point of codependency and where they'd put the whole world in danger because they can't let eachother go. I can't see where Yukio ever really loved Rin; to my mind he was always too jealous and hateful and power hungry. Can you say Scar? And the twins never really knew each other for all those years.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 06, 2018, 04:10:43 AM
But could it be like Satan means something like "Don't you think (your friend/student) is an amusing girl?"
Then he would have said "友だち" for "friend" or "学生" for "student".

"面白い友だちがいるな" "That's an interesting friend you've got there."
"面白い学生がいるな" "That's an interesting student you've got there."
"その友だちは面白い女だな" "Your friend is an amusing girl, hun?"
"その友だちは面白い女だと思わないか" "Don't you think your friend is an amusing girl?"
Oh, I didn't mean Satan exactly said something like friend/student. I just saw your translation  "(You) have an interesting woman" / "This is an interesting woman (you)'ve got there." , and then I wonder if Satan could be asking Yukio's opinion (in a sarcastic tone) about Shiemi's action just because Yukio is her friend/teacher.

My problem is I don't see anything in Shiemi that Satan would find interesting to compliment her... and I feel Yukio's reaction is like he doesn't want Satan to notice Shiemi in any way
She told him not to leave "雪ちゃん... 行っちゃダメだよ...!!" i.e. "行ってしまうのはだめですよ" = "It is not-good/unacceptable for you to end up leaving".
And she sent her greenman tie him up.
That's an action we (readers) would praise her, but why would Satan think it's anything good? He seems agree to leave with Yukio

probably the realization of "I do NOT want her to get wrapped up in this mess".
agree

Makes his comments about Shiemi even more unsettling because Satan would've had the front row seat to their relationship disintegrating.
But how can Satan know they have any special feeling if he can only spy them without reading Yukio's mind? It seems like Yukio has been acting perfectly to stay in that teacher/student relationship

That'd be like letting the current him win, since he doesn't fear death. He actively welcomes it. If he dies, it'll mean that he has succeeded in running away from his life and problems for good.
absolutely agree. I'm pretty sure Kato would not let Yukio fulfill his wish as the real punishment

I said he doesn't feel love, not that it isn't in him. It's buried deep, along with the tears and grief he's separated from himself for so long that he can't even feel anymore.
Well, I think Yukio definitely loved Shiro and Shiemi. The only problem is always his relationship with Rin

Yukio has never cried in the story so far despite everything. Katou's been saving that for something big.
absolutely agree.

Or it was also in the funeral scene in chapter 1 when Yukio just walked away.

My opinion about this part is that Yukio might have walked away 'cause he knew Mephisto was about to show up and he didn't want to "make it clear" they had a connection just yet (or didn't want to hear what those two could've talked about/was ordered to stay away).
But Mephisto was about to kill Rin! He only let Rin join True Cross School after Rin declared he intends to beat Satan. Or you can assume before the funeral Mephisto has promised Yukio that they won't harm Rin, but we are not confirmed yet.

He can just go and die himself. Rin would be better off
But we are pretty sure Rin would be in deep pain if Yukio dies

Sorry, I'm not optimistic. I think it's way way too late for that kind of positive development now. As I said before, I doubt it could ever be believable and not look like it was pulled out of thin air.
When I say "close" I literally mean they live together, Rin cook for Yukio and ask him when he will be home, or Yukio give Rin medicine when he is injured and reminds him about the hanging execution or not to rely on the flame too much.

One of the possible ending I imagine is that even after Yukio is back to the human side and both of them are exorcists and hence colleague, they avoid to meet each other and only communicate politely through their common friends (I mean the exwires) when necessary. I won't regard that as "closer" than they were. (Though that's still a happy end in my standard)


I don’t think that’ll be true. I know everyone pushes certain things away, considering them not canon. I think of Kato-sama like Rowling. Nothing happens in her universe without her approval. I believe I’ve seen somewhere—I don’t remember where, that she considers “Salaryman Yukio” to be a parallel universe, thus making that one not canon. The ending of the anime conveys that they will connect in a way that their powers will work together, for that I believe they will have to be close.
But I have an opposite opinion about which way is "positive" or "optimistic"

Let me put it this way : Isn't it miserable to put two people together if they can't get along with each other? What's the point to force them create a tight bond together?

IMO the only inevitable "redemption" needed is Yukio changes his recent opinion about Shiro (probably also the Order), and fight for human again. Then he might help Rin fighting, but he doesn't need to "be close" with Rin. Kato can definitely control everything in this universe but maybe she doesn't think the twins must form a tight bond together. It can be similar to the Rin-Arthur relationship at anime ending. (Though Anime!Arthur is unnecessary awful ...)


this (https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/aonoexorcist/images/6/68/Werewolf_Card_Game_Yukio_Okumura.png/revision/latest?cb=20160615010633). /shrug

This Yukio card has a demon motif going on. This is still an exorcist card, but it has the coloring of the major opponents ......so I wonder where that one is going.
I think it corresponds to Yukio joins Illuminati?

Let's say Rin didn't have time to actually process what he just did and/or comment it (I was expecting something like "Did I just charge Yukio?"/"What did I just do?"/"Was I really trying to kill him?"/"Is Yukio okay?" etc etc) and the first thing he noticed when he lifted his gaze was the half sword at Yukio's feet.
Rin could't understand what just happened at that moment. His initial thought was only to stop Yukio with the sword, and then it seems like Yukio easily block him. (Rin didn't even understand how the sword is broken) You have to wait for the exwires to tell Rin how dangerous the situation really was.

raise my hopes Rin, at least so it seems or I like to believe, already got over his rage status toward Yukio. Be it 'cause discovering about Satan being somehow connected to Yukio made him believe there's prolly more behind Yukio's behaviour after all or any other reason, I don't particularly care.

I kinda don't like the feeling I get from Rin being unable to add anything else 'cause of the growing pain. It kinda leaves the situation a lil "ambiguous" imo. I mean, Rin does try to call Yukio a couple times (it's all he can manage to say) but, even if I have the feeling he's not mad at him anymore, I think there's too lil to really tell if he's ACTUALLY not.

I mean, it looks obvious, maybe. But I still don't feel 100% sure about it. If I want to keep thinking positive, well, I think I should focus over the fact Rin looks like he's screaming at Yukio to not go. But I also get the feeling he may be calling him as in: "We're not done talking yet!" and Rin's still angry and... okay, I think I'm exaggerating. *stop stop*
What I think about the first half of this chapter : it pulls Rin back in the middle of absolutely trust Yukio and absolutely hate Yukio. (probably like Shima's case)

What Rin gets : "Yukio becomes an awful person and shoot me."  "Satan suddenly shows up and maybe the source of all this shit"  "But Yukio says they are independently exist?!?!" I think that's confusing enough to pull Rin to a cautions state.

It could a quick way to let them start a "rescue Yukio" mission. If they just start rescue right after Yukio's reveal, it would be too unrealistic like everyone is a saint, but now they have the information that Satan is between all these, so that will be enough reason. Since it doesn't seem like Yukio is completely forced to do so, they will know they have to be careful.

So maybe Rin will still be somewhat mad at Yukio the next time they meet, but it will be in a cool down state due to the complex situation.

And about Yukio's appearance: As long as he won't get emo hair (like covering his bad eye, lots of spikes) I'm in for almost everything.
Anything but emo hair. It would be like Spiderman 3 all over again.

I always considered Rin's hair to have a "emo" style
No way. An emo hair style is when it covers only one eye.
How about super saiyan hair (https://www.google.com.tw/search?q=super+saiyan+hair&tbm=isch)

^ Why do I feel like Satan could take on Shura's "let's-relentlessly-tease-this-kiddo" role from now on? (if he'll keep talking and won't turn into "silent mode" again (which I doubt, since Lucifer is THAT happy Yukio "brought" Father to him)
That could be interesting. Thought I'd take any type of interaction, really. I've wanted to see more of Satan for a long time.
Satan probably can't talk when Yukio covers his left eye
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Taytronics7 on January 06, 2018, 04:52:19 AM
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My problem is I don't see anything in Shiemi that Satan would find interesting to compliment her... and I feel Yukio's reaction is like he doesn't want Satan to notice Shiemi in any way
She told him not to leave "雪ちゃん... 行っちゃダメだよ...!!" i.e. "行ってしまうのはだめですよ" = "It is not-good/unacceptable for you to end up leaving".
And she sent her greenman tie him up.
That's an action we (readers) would praise her, but why would Satan think it's anything good? He seems agree to leave with Yukio

I think Satan says Shiemi is interesting because she had the nerve to try to stop him and Yukio from leaving. I don't imagine anyone has the balls to object against Satan, let alone a young woman like Shiemi, so it's interesting to him. Kinda like with how Amaimon said she was interesting after she pushed him. It could also be foreshadowing that Shiemi isn't human and/or has some exceptional power.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Buttercup on January 06, 2018, 04:54:19 AM
People keep talking about how "so and so is dead to me". I have an Ex Husband. Havent seen or talked to him in over 10 years. That's what dead to me really is like. If I was to meet up again, it would be very brief. I don't consider what Yukio has done/leaving too extreme to cause a "he is a lost cause" line. If you don't like Yukio we get it.....but really Yukio is a hella lot more interesting than Rin at this point. btw #PRAYFORYUKIO

On another note and Emo hair.....Maybe Lightning keeps his hair in his over his eyes for the same reason. He did show a weird looking eye in a past chapter.....foreshadowing!
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 06, 2018, 04:56:26 AM

When I say "close" I literally mean they live together, Rin cook for Yukio and ask him when he will be home, or Yukio give Rin medicine when he is injured and reminds him about the hanging execution or not to rely on the flame too much.

One of the possible ending I imagine is that even after Yukio is back to the human side and both of them are exorcists and hence colleague, they avoid to meet each other and only communicate politely through their common friends (I mean the exwires) when necessary. I won't regard that as "closer" than they were. (Though that's still a happy end in my standard)


I don’t think that’ll be true. I know everyone pushes certain things away, considering them not canon. I think of Kato-sama like Rowling. Nothing happens in her universe without her approval. I believe I’ve seen somewhere—I don’t remember where, that she considers “Salaryman Yukio” to be a parallel universe, thus making that one not canon. The ending of the anime conveys that they will connect in a way that their powers will work together, for that I believe they will have to be close.
But I have an opposite opinion about which way is "positive" or "optimistic"

Let me put it this way : Isn't it miserable to put two people together if they can't get along with each other? What's the point to force them create a tight bond together?

IMO the only inevitable "redemption" needed is Yukio changes his recent opinion about Shiro (probably also the Order), and fight for human again. Then he might help Rin fighting, but he doesn't need to "be close" with Rin. Kato can definitely control everything in this universe but maybe she doesn't think the twins must form a tight bond together. It can be similar to the Rin-Arthur relationship at anime ending. (Though Anime!Arthur is unnecessary awful ...)

But he still didn't cut off Rin's foot like in the manga. (excluding 2nd season flashbacks)
Shiro--I think we'll uncover more bad stuff, but then I'm sure Yukio will find something that sparks hope in his cynical mind. I am thinking of something he taught to Yukio much like Rin's "use your powers for a better purpose" line. And still, we don't know how she'll twist the truth in this case. I really don't think it'll be love story Yuritan--Satri--Sayu--Yutan--whatever...at least I hope not. I wonder why people are hoping for a complete disconnect between Yukio and Rin. I'm not excluding it, but I don't think that's what she intends for the twins.

Quote
this (https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/aonoexorcist/images/6/68/Werewolf_Card_Game_Yukio_Okumura.png/revision/latest?cb=20160615010633). /shrug

This Yukio card has a demon motif going on. This is still an exorcist card, but it has the coloring of the major opponents ......so I wonder where that one is going.
I think it corresponds to Yukio joins Illuminati?


Oh, the question there was for Shiemi's card which has her holding a dekalp and in the anime, she has a tribe of greenmen helping her out during the episode with Neuhaus's wife. I'm wondering where she's going with that for Shiemi.

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^ Why do I feel like Satan could take on Shura's "let's-relentlessly-tease-this-kiddo" role from now on? (if he'll keep talking and won't turn into "silent mode" again (which I doubt, since Lucifer is THAT happy Yukio "brought" Father to him)
That could be interesting. Thought I'd take any type of interaction, really. I've wanted to see more of Satan for a long time.
Satan probably can't talk when Yukio covers his left eye

I wonder if that's true.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 06, 2018, 05:07:37 AM
People keep talking about how "so and so is dead to me". I have an Ex Husband. Havent seen or talked to him in over 10 years. That's what dead to me really is like. If I was to meet up again, it would be very brief. I don't consider what Yukio has done/leaving too extreme to cause a "he is a lost cause" line. If you don't like Yukio we get it.....but really Yukio is a hella lot more interesting than Rin at this point. btw #PRAYFORYUKIO

Unfortunately, I have to see him occasionally because of our father, but that is beside the point. But I agree. Yukio has to go out and search for himself, so this is necessary for his growth. The same for Rin. They needed to separate. Otherwise, they would run at each other in a constant loop. I'm better than you. I will surpass you. Let neither of us talk about the real issues. You can rely on me. Yeah, right. Why aren't you driven as I am? Why aren't you seeing my struggle? Over and over. I've been wondering if we will see a personality shift in Rin too and for him to rediscover himself to define his purpose as well.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Buttercup on January 06, 2018, 05:15:01 AM
People keep talking about how "so and so is dead to me". I have an Ex Husband. Havent seen or talked to him in over 10 years. That's what dead to me really is like. If I was to meet up again, it would be very brief. I don't consider what Yukio has done/leaving too extreme to cause a "he is a lost cause" line. If you don't like Yukio we get it.....but really Yukio is a hella lot more interesting than Rin at this point. btw #PRAYFORYUKIO

Unfortunately, I have to see him occasionally because of our father, but that is beside the point. But I agree. Yukio has to go out and search for himself, so this is necessary for his growth. The same for Rin. They needed to separate. Otherwise, they would run at each other in a constant loop. I'm better than you. I will surpass you. Let neither of us talk about the real issues. You can rely on me. Yeah, right. Why aren't you driven as I am? Why aren't you seeing my struggle? Over and over. I've been wondering if we will see a personality shift in Rin too and for him to rediscover himself to define his purpose as well.

I feel a Naruto/Sasuke relationship vibe going on here.....maybe in 700 chapters they will be besties forever lol
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 06, 2018, 06:30:32 AM
I wonder if Satan could be asking Yukio's opinion (in a sarcastic tone) about Shiemi's action just because Yukio is her friend/teacher.
It can't be interpreted this way.

That's an action we (readers) would praise her, but why would Satan think it's anything good? He seems agree to leave with Yukio
Not "good", but "interesting".

But how can Satan know they have any special feeling if he can only spy them without reading Yukio's mind? It seems like Yukio has been acting perfectly to stay in that teacher/student relationship
Everyone can tell.

How about super saiyan hair (https://www.google.com.tw/search?q=super+saiyan+hair&tbm=isch)
I don't mind.

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I think Rin and Yukio will work things out and build a relationship stronger than it has ever been. Even if they never completely get along or never completely get on good terms.

One can always hope, but I can't see it happening now. And how is never completely getting along or never being on good terms a loving, close, strong relationship?

Quote
EDIT: Karen keeps talking about the Elric Brothers, but if I had to compare Rin and Yukio to a brother duo that works, I would compare them to Sam and Dean from Supernatural. They really don't get along, but they keep working things out.

Have to disagree there. The situations may be similar, but it's clear Dean and Sam have always loved each other as family (and know each other better than anyone) to the point of codependency and where they'd put the whole world in danger because they can't let eachother go. I can't see where Yukio ever really loved Rin; to my mind he was always too jealous and hateful and power hungry. Can you say Scar? And the twins never really knew each other for all those years.
Dude (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ID-nMQWI8), they're always fighting. X(
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: HorseTechie on January 06, 2018, 01:34:31 PM
Ah... this debate on how the twins relate is 'interesting'.

I have seen other tough relationships, and even though it's not manga, I thought of Leonardo and Raphael from the old school black n white Ninja Turtle comics. Those two were always on a power struggle on who was better (one being hot tempered and the other more intelligent and methodical - and being raised to fight against their surrogate father's enemy), and at the same time, flirting with certain other members on the opposing side. Even though it was rough seeing that the group was breaking up, Leo n Raph eventually mature and realize what really matters about family. It took years though... but it still tured around.

So... even though it appears that Yukio has become a goner, I really haven't seen anything that is considered truly sinister (I mean, he's not totally at the level of Kylo Ren yet!)

However the one thing that I remind myself is that they ARE sons if Satan. Satan! Satan is like, well, anything certain to bring hellish times. War, pain, angst, hate, fear, darkness... never truly happy things, like sunny warm meadows and loving hugs n kisses. With that being said, to see if Rin and Yukio could overcome the shadow of Satan would be a real victory!

On another topic... Yukio's left eye.  In trying to understand how Satan lives in there, I guess the flame that comes from it is not like Rin's flames?  Because, apparently Yukio can cover it with his hand and not get hurt. Or that a cloth bandana is sufficient in covering it. So the laser effect can only activate (like with Satan's voice) if the danger is actually seen? Silly question, but I had to wonder! 

On Yukio's hair... I would prefer an emo hair style, because the other Illuminati trend seems to be the bowl cut. With the bangs cut straight across the brow. That look on Yukio may be more alarming!
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 06, 2018, 02:29:09 PM
IMO the only inevitable "redemption" needed is Yukio changes his recent opinion about Shiro (probably also the Order), and fight for human again.

I made this experiment: I took the whole BTS arc (and aren't we gonna mention we're STILL in it? (chapter 97: beyond the snow part 6 (crap, this thing's getting really long))) and read it all at once.

Okay. Premise: let's say the "Yukio before trying to shoot himself in chapter 93" and the "Yukio after that" could kinda be considered 2 different "persons" since right after that attempt Yukio decides he's -definitely- done with his fake act for good and starts to literally do/say what the heck he feels like without giving a shet anymore. But, I think it's kinda safe to state Yukio was kinda starting to give signs something was already in the air before the BTS arc began. Like, through laughing in the face of people, pointing guns, making scary/evil glares and such. So, what I want to say is, Yukio was already "in the process" of a (dark) "change" before this arc.

But, in chapter 93 he opens the usb contents and... um, dunno how to put it. I never stop to consider it, but it feels somehow "incredible" (imo) how emotional he suddenly turns after finding out about S13. Like he's briefly out of his "cold and numb" state and he can feel emotions again. It's like those big revelations caused him to abruptly snap out of his "insane" state (temporarily). Maybe it's not something THAT biggie. But after chapter 90 and before chapter 93 I doubted Yukio could still be able to get emotional.

Now, yeah, as I said, the Yukio after chapter 93 and the Yukio before chapter 93 are on two different levels. But my point is: the "slightly insane/numb" Yukio, despite everything, in chapter 93 kinda proved he still retained some "sanity/emotions" inside of him. After chapter 93, it'd look like he upgraded to a completely "insane/numb" state after all the shet that happens afterwards. But in chapter 97 I got some doubts.

In chapter 93 Yukio wonders "What is good and what is evil?" during his "raging/emotional rampage". And, finally, in chapter 97 he recognizes and defines Lucifer/Illuminati/their cause and he himself as EVIL. That's proof, to me, he's STILL sane, deep inside, or even just "rational" enough, despite everything. I see it as a sign of hope. A sign that he's still somehow on the same "level" of before chapter 93 even if it got "worse", on the other hand.

And if he really is, it makes me hope that another big/terrible/devastating revelation could still work on him as S13's did. What I mean is that I think that as long as he retains even a lil bit of emotions (even if he doesn' show them/he's not even aware of feeling them) there could be hope that by "provoking" them he could "snap" out of his "insane/numb" state again. (which reminds me of episode 24 of the anime with Rin saying "Yukio is still in there somewhere and if we keep calling him, he'll snap out of it.")

Back to chapter 93 again. After Yukio starts feeling "tired" he finds himself in front of Futsumaya, encounters Shiemi and talks with her. I like to think Yukio said those things/hugged Shiemi out of honest feelings. So, deep inside, as I think earthy said, Yukio craves affection but prolly just feels like he doesn't deserve it (or something along these lines).

Long story short, I feel Yukio is not completely that lost cause he seems right now. I don't know what exactly or what kind of "revelation" could make him "react" at this point and/or show signs of still being capable of feeling emotions but I'm kinda sure he still got 'em in him somewhere/somehow. Even towards Rin. And I'm not talking about "competition". He did say he loves and hates him and I like to count that as an "honest admission" as what he said to Shiemi.

Also, if Yukio recognizes himself (alongside Lucifer and his crew) as evil I wonder if he'll be willing to turn into an enemy/killer of humanity, after all, even if it's for his thirst of power. I believed it'd be prepared to do that if it wasn't for the fact he said/recognized he's evil. How could he prove he's "stronger" than Rin if he used his power to kill people? I think it'd be "logic" to use it to save them. Unless all Yukio is willing to gain power for is only to fight/defeat specifically Rin. But, I don't think so.

A couple last thoughts about chapter 97. When Yukio declares "I don't know what will happen if I go to the Illuminati blah blah" Yukio's pose and the fact he's covering his eye with his hand makes it possible to see very lil of his facial expression while he's saying those things. I wonder if that was on purpose. When Rin told Yukio "Someday I'm gonna surpass you", the panel (a pretty big one) was completely focused on him and his facial expression.

But in Yukio's case it's nothing like that. And considering the importance of the words spoken I expected more focus on this bit. Also, Yukio is looking at Rin while slightly turned to his left side. Why this choice? Wouldn't have given a "slightly" better view of Yukio's face if he was turned on his right side? Just technical stuff, forgive me.

Anyway, if the twins are gonna meet again only by the end of the manga, I expected a better "departure scene" with a better "stylistic structure". But as it's played/designed, it feels a lil "simplified". There could be reasons, but. And this connects to my second thought: at first I commented that I had a feeling the twins could meet up again only at the end. I read Yukio's words again. And he says: "But if we DO both live through this, I'll be stronger than you."

If I'm honest, at first I read it as: "Once all this will be over and IF we still will both be alive, we'll meet again and I'll be stronger than you." But, please, someone tell me this could be just my personal interpretation and what Yukio actually said can't necessary be read like this. I hope I'm wrong and that what Yukio meant is that the most important thing to him is that by the end of the story he'll be the stronger one so it's okay to him if he and Rin happened to meet once in a while and it's not like he wants/would run away if they happened to meet. 'Cause... I want to believe they will meet again sometimes and not in 10 years from now.

Edit:
It could a quick way to let them start a "rescue Yukio" mission. If they just start rescue right after Yukio's reveal, it would be too unrealistic like everyone is a saint, but now they have the information that Satan is between all these, so that will be enough reason. Since it doesn't seem like Yukio is completely forced to do so, they will know they have to be careful.

So maybe Rin will still be somewhat mad at Yukio the next time they meet, but it will be in a cool down state due to the complex situation.

For as much as I'd like the idea of Rin and co. going for another "rescue Yukio" mission, since the first attempt failed miserably and since Yukio made it plain clear he doesn't need help/can't stand to be rescued I kinda doubt this could happen again. If I'm realistic, I think even Rin would not take it into consideration now (for as much as he'd want to get Yukio back/have at least a chance to meet him/talk to him again). I think Yukio's point got through Rin for good after chapter 96.

I'm not saying Rin won't entartain the idea for a while (after he recovers) but I can already picture him replaying Yukio's words in his mind and think "Would it be a good idea to try and rescue him again after all?". If Rin still respects Yukio, I think he won't try to plan to rescue him again. But he won't also feel like letting him stay in the Illuminati. I guess he'll agonize over what to do for a while (always if, as I said, he'll be over his rage status toward Yukio after he'll have processed what happened).

Honestly, I don't know what he could come up with or what he could decide to do. Leave things as they are ("Yukio wants power and the Illuminati can help him? Then okay, I'll leave him be if that's what he wants.") or if he will still feel like not giving up on him. Or maybe things with the opening of the Arificial Gate will get worse and he'll be summoned to help and he won't have time/way to go for personal quests. If I got this right, involving Amaimon in the rescue plan, was meant to "save Rin and the exwires" by any "betrayal" accusation or something like this. So, technically, Rin and the exwires are "clear" and will still be considered members of the Order as if nothing happened.

Also, if Rin's gonna get some development by the end of this arc I suspect he may not be the "healdlong" guy as before who would just rush in to save someone. This is what I think. And the experience with Yukio may have him reconsider a lot of things about himself too.

So, I really have no clue. I only pictured a case were Rin and Yukio happen to meet and instead of offering him help, Rin offers Yukio to "use" him somehow, at least. Such as in the Aomori arc. At the time, Yukio studied a plan which involved having Rin stab Hachirotaro in the back in a surprise attack. So he kinda "used" him. Prolly Yukio is "okay" with this kinda "help". Just random thoughts.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 06, 2018, 04:10:26 PM
I mean he does talk about tempering Rin's body to perfectly withstand the flames...talks about his promise with Mephisto...and says 'the body will me mine'. That's not directly saying 'I'm totally gonna possess you', but it's damn close. Anyone got an alternate interpretation of this?
Technically, it could still be that Satan somehow has confidence that he can make Rin follow his order (after Rin’s body is able to endure the flame), which means Rin will be Satan’s walking weapon, so it’s like he has Rin’s body. Though this explanation is still weird.

Though of course if Yukio gets stronger, he runs the risk of the same thing. Seems vaguely anime-first-season bound where Yukio gets possessed by Satan. I didn't watch the anime, but saw the thread about all the similarities. I know they are very different, but so far the overall big events seem the same..opening gate....Yukio's face-heel-turn...Satan possessing an Okumura..it's making me think Katou did indeed give them like a few-lines summary or something of the overall direction the manga will take. What do you anime-watchers think?
No they are totally different. In the anime it just seems they assume the twin both naturally have strong enough body to endure Satan’s possession, and Satan just has the chance to possess Yukio when Yukio is in shock seeing grandpa dies.

People keep comparing current manga to that awful anime ending … I think I should clarify … In the anime, almost everyone became kind of crazy (perhaps except Yukio because he just became stupid), but it would take too long so I’ll just state the demon Yukio part. After the trial Yukio suddenly has some kind of … demon skin disease I guess. Turns out it’s because he also inherit Satan’s gene. Then when the artificial gate opens Yukio simultaneous becomes full demon like Rin (don’t know why) except the tail (don’t know why). Then Satan talking from the artificial gate (don’t know how) and he manage to let Yukio see his story (don’t know how). Turns out Yuri actually love Satan but grandpa is the bad guy who intended to kill Yuri. Yukio (in demon form) is mad at grandpa and request an explanation. But grandpa accidentally died and Yukio is in shock so mentally weak so Satan successfully possessed Yukio. Then demon Yukio becomes Satan-possessed Yukio. Finally Rin yelled at Yukio and Yukio get rid of Satan, returns back to demon Yukio.

IMO the only inevitable "redemption" needed is Yukio changes his recent opinion about Shiro (probably also the Order), and fight for human again.

I made this experiment: I took the whole BTS arc (and aren't we gonna mention we're STILL in it? (chapter 97: beyond the snow part 6 (crap, this thing's getting really long))) and read it all at once.
It's long for the same chapter title, but not really long for an arc

the Yukio after chapter 93 and the Yukio before chapter 93 are on two different levels. But my point is: the "slightly insane/numb" Yukio, despite everything, in chapter 93 kinda proved he still retained some "sanity/emotions" inside of him. After chapter 93, it'd look like he upgraded to a completely "insane/numb" state after all the shet that happens afterwards. But in chapter 97 I got some doubts.

In chapter 93 Yukio wonders "What is good and what is evil?" during his "raging/emotional rampage". And, finally, in chapter 97 he recognizes and defines Lucifer/Illuminati/their cause and he himself as EVIL. That's proof, to me, he's STILL sane, deep inside, or even just "rational" enough, despite everything. I see it as a sign of hope. A sign that he's still somehow on the same "level" of before chapter 93 even if it got "worse", on the other hand.

And if he really is, it makes me hope that another big/terrible/devastating revelation could still work on him as S13's did. What I mean is that I think that as long as he retains even a lil bit of emotions (even if he doesn' show them/he's not even aware of feeling them) there could be hope that by "provoking" them he could "snap" out of his "insane/numb" state again.
I don't get it. Seems like Yukio didn't really shoot Mephisto, so do you really think Yukio's behavior in chapter 94 (with Mephisto) is more severe then his behavior in chapter 91 (with Bon) ?

I think until now everything he has done is still very logical, so he doesn't seem ever reach so-called "insane" state. Though his emotion and priority changed a lot in this arc.

Of cause he always has emotion, like his extreme rage at Mephisto. The problem is his lack of emotion about Rin.

I don't think he was wondering who is evil in chapter 93. It's quite clear there he thought the Order is actually no less evil than the Illuminati.

(which reminds me of episode 24 of the anime with Rin saying "Yukio is still in there somewhere and if we keep calling him, he'll snap out of it.")
(That's actually a point why I think that anime ending is awful. In the manga no one successfully done anything by multiple emotionally calling. Or no one ever considered that's a reasonable method)

if Yukio recognizes himself (alongside Lucifer and his crew) as evil I wonder if he'll be willing to turn into an enemy/killer of humanity, after all, even if it's for his thirst of power. I believed it'd be prepared to do that if it wasn't for the fact he said/recognized he's evil.
Looks like he won’t blindly follow any order. Maybe only do the killing until he get a valid explanation of the action. However, even if he thinks "I’m evil so I can kill" in mind, he might still unable to really do it. We have to wait and see

what Yukio meant is that the most important thing to him is that by the end of the story he'll be the stronger one so it's okay to him if he and Rin happened to meet once in a while and it's not like he wants/would run away if they happened to meet. 'Cause... I want to believe they will meet again sometimes and not in 10 years from now.
IMO there is no evidence that they won’t meet for a long time. (And if you put yourself in the author’s role … you’ll find that chance is surely very low)

I actually predict that Yukio will invite Rin to join the Illuminati soon

On the other hand, originally (last month) I think the difficulty is at Rin. He might hesitate to meet Yukio again for various reasons. But thanks to Satan in this chapter my worry is gone

I wonder if Satan could be asking Yukio's opinion (in a sarcastic tone) about Shiemi's action just because Yukio is her friend/teacher.
It can't be interpreted this way.

That's an action we (readers) would praise her, but why would Satan think it's anything good? He seems agree to leave with Yukio
Not "good", but "interesting".
All right. Maybe it's because Amaimon's words make me thought Satan should be annoyed at Shiemi

But how can Satan know they have any special feeling if he can only spy them without reading Yukio's mind? It seems like Yukio has been acting perfectly to stay in that teacher/student relationship
Everyone can tell.
Satan can’t see Yukio’s expression. If he only hears what Yukio says and sees Shiemi’s expression, I don’t feel it’s that evident. (In addition it’s possible Satan doesn’t know what is "love")

I really haven't seen anything that is considered truly sinister (I mean, he's not totally at the level of Kylo Ren yet!)
Make me wonder, do you guys think he has any chance to redeem in Ep9? If he can then I don’t see why Yukio can't

Satan is like, well, anything certain to bring hellish times. War, pain, angst, hate, fear, darkness... never truly happy things
Satan himself is happy

the laser effect can only activate (like with Satan's voice) if the danger is actually seen? Silly question, but I had to wonder! 
Yes, I do believe there’s evidence that Satan can’t freely control Yukio’s eye either
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 06, 2018, 05:03:34 PM
In the anime, almost everyone became kind of crazy (perhaps except Yukio because he just became stupid),

Oh, my, this made me laugh so hard ('cause it's so true). Oh, about Yukio's tail, maybe it couldn't make it past Yukio's long coat? Or this is the headcanon I have.

It's long for the same chapter title, but not really long for an arc

Yeah, I know. As you said, I meant the title. And I wonder if the arc will be over now that Yukio joined the Illuminati or if it will continue (always the title) until Yukio will get answers from Lucifer, will prolly unlock his infamous potential and will turn into... something (which would complete the "beyond the snow/beyond Yukio" circle (?)).

I don't get it. Seems like Yukio didn't really shoot Mephisto, so do you really think Yukio's behavior in chapter 94 (with Mephisto) is more severe then his behavior in chapter 91 (with Bon)?

I think until now everything he has done is still very logical, so he doesn't seem ever reach so-called "insane" state. Though his emotion and priority changed a lot in this arc.

Um, nope, I don't think Yukio trying to shoot Mephisto is more severe then Yukio threatening Suguro. I said Yukio was giving signs of a "dark change" before chapter 93 and I mentioned "pointing guns" referring to Suguro's case. What I meant is that while Yukio was doing "crazy" stuff before chapter 93 he was like in an "on/off" phase where he would do things but eventually fade back into his "fake" act.

After chapter 93, he doesn't care anymore about what he does and doesn't bother to put on the "fake" act anymore. I consider it a difference. Or as I called it, an "upgrade" to another level. I used the word "insane" 'cause that's the first word which came into my mind but I didn't mean "insane" as in "doing illogical things". Much like: acting without a care for his actions. Or probably just "numb" but I wanted to use another word. Crap, my grammar is so limited.

IMO there is no evidence that they won’t meet for a long time. (And if you put yourself in the author’s role … you’ll find that chance is surely very low)

[...] He might hesitate to meet Yukio again for various reasons. But thanks to Satan in this chapter my worry is gone

Let me hug you too.

Satan himself is happy

-Satan on the other hand is having a good time

[...]

-*Satan giggle*
Or just: MWA HA HA... HEE HEE HEE...
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 06, 2018, 05:16:27 PM
But how can Satan know they have any special feeling if he can only spy them without reading Yukio's mind? It seems like Yukio has been acting perfectly to stay in that teacher/student relationship
Everyone can tell.
Satan can’t see Yukio’s expression. If he only hears what Yukio says and sees Shiemi’s expression, I don’t feel it’s that evident. (In addition it’s possible Satan doesn’t know what is "love")
I don't know enough about Satan (what type of person he is or how much he knows) to be able to answer how he can tell Shiemi is someone special for Yukio. But if I had to guess, the safest bet would be that he overheard Yukio's conversations with Rin and Shura where they make it clear he likes her.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: SKL on January 06, 2018, 10:42:04 PM
I'm totally down for a new look for Yukio and a hair-style change. I think he'd look good both ways. Like when his bangs were blown up when the sword broke, he looked really good there. A longer haired Yukio might also be sexy. Wait his hair would be like Rin's then....though like it was said earlier that could be Katou's intent to really put emphasis on and make them look like brothers/twins especially if Yukio doesn't wear his glasses too. It's becoming more important to remember that they are brothers now. Before Yukio could have been Rin's adopted brother for how much it mattered to the plot. Now with the Satan-relatedness, it's a danger to forget they are twin brothers (like True Cross Order kind of did, or didn't put enough caution at least..they'll probably be kicking themselves later for believing Mephisto's words and just relying on basic tests...).
What is the 'emo-cut'? Is it when they have long bangs that only cover one eye? If so, agreed. That would look kind of weird.

Other than that I'm pretty open for whatever new look Yukio gets. I already know he'll look damn good in an Illuminati uniform from edits.

I mean he does talk about tempering Rin's body to perfectly withstand the flames...talks about his promise with Mephisto...and says 'the body will me mine'. That's not directly saying 'I'm totally gonna possess you', but it's damn close. Anyone got an alternate interpretation of this?
Technically, it could still be that Satan somehow has confidence that he can make Rin follow his order (after Rin’s body is able to endure the flame), which means Rin will be Satan’s walking weapon, so it’s like he has Rin’s body. Though this explanation is still weird.

Ah yeah it is still kind of weird. Plus looking back at the raw, I noticed something I didn't before. Satan used the reading 'karada' with the kanji 肉体. That's not the normal reading for it. The kind of umbrella term normally used for body is 'karada' and its kanji is 体. It has a broad meaning. Like using it for how you feel, your health, a corpse, etc..

The normal reading for 肉体 is nikutai, which is a much more specific term, referring to the flesh-body or corporeal meaning.
Kind of like in kokoro (心) vs shinzou (心臓) in Japanese. Kokoro, a broud term, can mean the heart in your mind, your spirit, refer to love, etc. While shinzou refers to strictly the organ in your body.

Anyway, It's a literary tool unique to Japanese where they can put special emphasis on a word by changing the normal reading for it. I'm not good at explaining it and maybe most of you already know.

The fact that the kanji 肉体 is used to refer to Rin's body makes it look like Satan is especially interested in his flesh rather than like 'another body in my army to take over Assiah' or something. So it puts even more evidence Satan wants to use Rin as his vessel............

Quote
No they are totally different. In the anime it just seems they assume the twin both naturally have strong enough body to endure Satan’s possession, and Satan just has the chance to possess Yukio when Yukio is in shock seeing grandpa dies.

People keep comparing current manga to that awful anime ending … I think I should clarify … In the anime, almost everyone became kind of crazy (perhaps except Yukio because he just became stupid), but it would take too long so I’ll just state the demon Yukio part. After the trial Yukio suddenly has some kind of … demon skin disease I guess. Turns out it’s because he also inherit Satan’s gene. Then when the artificial gate opens Yukio simultaneous becomes full demon like Rin (don’t know why) except the tail (don’t know why). Then Satan talking from the artificial gate (don’t know how) and he manage to let Yukio see his story (don’t know how). Turns out Yuri actually love Satan but grandpa is the bad guy who intended to kill Yuri. Yukio (in demon form) is mad at grandpa and request an explanation. But grandpa accidentally died and Yukio is in shock so mentally weak so Satan successfully possessed Yukio. Then demon Yukio becomes Satan-possessed Yukio. Finally Rin yelled at Yukio and Yukio get rid of Satan, returns back to demon Yukio.
Wow thank you. That cleared a lot up. Seems like the anime had a huge flaw of not explaining the mechanics of how things happen. And how did everyone become crazy? lol I know I should just give in and watch it, but I like reading other people's take on it.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 07, 2018, 05:56:25 AM
What is the 'emo-cut'? Is it when they have long bangs that only cover one eye? If so, agreed. That would look kind of weird.
Yeah, that's the one.

I have nothing against that haircut. For example, Sanji from One Piece has it and I don't care nor mind in anyway way, shape, or form. But it's probably because I was born in the early 90s. Somewhere in the 2000s that haircut got associated with the "emo" trend and the stereotype of angsty teenagers who self-pity, self-harm, and often contemplate or attempt suicide. So giving Yukio that haircut would just look like a bad joke. Like how back then people would draw or photoshop that haircut on characters that acts "emo" to make the statement that they are. Though I wonder, are people still doing that? And still calling these characters "emo"? Or did it died out. I haven't been paying much attention.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Wikkelsoee on January 07, 2018, 10:25:39 AM
^ I think they do but it's not seen as often as before, since the whole emo/scene culture isn't really "in" anymore. I'm pretty sure an emo would still be drawn with that haircut, though. (I just realised the hair colour makes a really big difference. If Sanji's hair was black he'd look kind of emo too)
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 07, 2018, 04:13:32 PM
^Yeah, darker hair does help, but there's also a lot of lighter haired ones. I guess it's an accumulation of factors: if you have the haircut, black hair, black eyeliner, black nail polish, piercings, and the angsty attitude, then you're on business.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 08, 2018, 10:59:52 AM
^That hair style isn't too rare in anime, right? Like Izuru Kira of Bleach or Ino Yamanaka of Naruto. Maybe it doesn't have special meaning in Japan fandom.

I don't imagine anyone has the balls to object against Satan
So that’s why Satan emphasize she’s a female ...


When I say "close" I literally mean they live together, Rin cook for Yukio and ask him when he will be home, or Yukio give Rin medicine when he is injured and reminds him about the hanging execution or not to rely on the flame too much.

One of the possible ending I imagine is that even after Yukio is back to the human side and both of them are exorcists and hence colleague, they avoid to meet each other and only communicate politely through their common friends (I mean the exwires) when necessary. I won't regard that as "closer" than they were. (Though that's still a happy end in my standard)


I don’t think that’ll be true. I know everyone pushes certain things away, considering them not canon. I think of Kato-sama like Rowling. Nothing happens in her universe without her approval. I believe I’ve seen somewhere—I don’t remember where, that she considers “Salaryman Yukio” to be a parallel universe, thus making that one not canon. The ending of the anime conveys that they will connect in a way that their powers will work together, for that I believe they will have to be close.
But I have an opposite opinion about which way is "positive" or "optimistic"

Let me put it this way : Isn't it miserable to put two people together if they can't get along with each other? What's the point to force them create a tight bond together?

IMO the only inevitable "redemption" needed is Yukio changes his recent opinion about Shiro (probably also the Order), and fight for human again. Then he might help Rin fighting, but he doesn't need to "be close" with Rin. Kato can definitely control everything in this universe but maybe she doesn't think the twins must form a tight bond together. It can be similar to the Rin-Arthur relationship at anime ending. (Though Anime!Arthur is unnecessary awful ...)

But he still didn't cut off Rin's foot like in the manga.
Then he blindly attacked the exwires and Shura, which is worse in my opinion

we don't know how she'll twist the truth in this case. I really don't think it'll be love story Yuritan--Satri--Sayu--Yutan--whatever...at least I hope not.
Maybe Yuri was deceived. After their children displayed blue flame she finally realized he’s a demon god.

I wonder why people are hoping for a complete disconnect between Yukio and Rin. I'm not excluding it, but I don't think that's what she intends for the twins.
I don’t hope they disconnect. That’s just one of the possible end. What I mean is it’s not really a requirement for two people to stay close. Many real-life brothers don’t like each other very much. I will appreciate if at the end Kato somehow make they get along well

They needed to separate. Otherwise, they would run at each other in a constant loop. I'm better than you. I will surpass you. Let neither of us talk about the real issues. You can rely on me. Yeah, right. Why aren't you driven as I am? Why aren't you seeing my struggle? Over and over. I've been wondering if we will see a personality shift in Rin too and for him to rediscover himself to define his purpose as well.

I feel a Naruto/Sasuke relationship vibe going on here.....maybe in 700 chapters they will be besties forever lol
At the end, are Naruto and Sasuke really close friends? I wonder

It could a quick way to let them start a "rescue Yukio" mission. If they just start rescue right after Yukio's reveal, it would be too unrealistic like everyone is a saint, but now they have the information that Satan is between all these, so that will be enough reason. Since it doesn't seem like Yukio is completely forced to do so, they will know they have to be careful.

So maybe Rin will still be somewhat mad at Yukio the next time they meet, but it will be in a cool down state due to the complex situation.

For as much as I'd like the idea of Rin and co. going for another "rescue Yukio" mission, since the first attempt failed miserably and since Yukio made it plain clear he doesn't need help/can't stand to be rescued I kinda doubt this could happen again.
Just list a possible direction. Agree that’s not really the most probable one. But if she intends to develop the story like that I bet Satan will be the major reason for them to take action. Not only Rin, we also have Bon and Koneko who do have reasons to find Satan.

And I don’t really think Yukio has made it clear to them. It’s only clear to us.

I don't get it. Seems like Yukio didn't really shoot Mephisto, so do you really think Yukio's behavior in chapter 94 (with Mephisto) is more severe then his behavior in chapter 91 (with Bon)?

I think until now everything he has done is still very logical, so he doesn't seem ever reach so-called "insane" state. Though his emotion and priority changed a lot in this arc.

Um, nope, I don't think Yukio trying to shoot Mephisto is more severe then Yukio threatening Suguro. I said Yukio was giving signs of a "dark change" before chapter 93 and I mentioned "pointing guns" referring to Suguro's case. What I meant is that while Yukio was doing "crazy" stuff before chapter 93 he was like in an "on/off" phase where he would do things but eventually fade back into his "fake" act.

After chapter 93, he doesn't care anymore about what he does and doesn't bother to put on the "fake" act anymore. I consider it a difference. Or as I called it, an "upgrade" to another level. I used the word "insane" 'cause that's the first word which came into my mind but I didn't mean "insane" as in "doing illogical things". Much like: acting without a care for his actions.
Well, then I think Yukio doesn’t change much in this chapter. You would expect if Yukio wants to choose a safer way he can still put the fake smile before Lucifer and patiently listen to that world peace plan despite he doesn’t believe it at all. But Yukio does continue his "let’s not fake about anything" attitude, acting without a care for his actions.

Quote
No they are totally different. In the anime it just seems they assume the twin both naturally have strong enough body to endure Satan’s possession, and Satan just has the chance to possess Yukio when Yukio is in shock seeing grandpa dies.

People keep comparing current manga to that awful anime ending … I think I should clarify … In the anime, almost everyone became kind of crazy (perhaps except Yukio because he just became stupid), but it would take too long so I’ll just state the demon Yukio part. After the trial Yukio suddenly has some kind of … demon skin disease I guess. Turns out it’s because he also inherit Satan’s gene. Then when the artificial gate opens Yukio simultaneous becomes full demon like Rin (don’t know why) except the tail (don’t know why). Then Satan talking from the artificial gate (don’t know how) and he manage to let Yukio see his story (don’t know how). Turns out Yuri actually love Satan but grandpa is the bad guy who intended to kill Yuri. Yukio (in demon form) is mad at grandpa and request an explanation. But grandpa accidentally died and Yukio is in shock so mentally weak so Satan successfully possessed Yukio. Then demon Yukio becomes Satan-possessed Yukio. Finally Rin yelled at Yukio and Yukio get rid of Satan, returns back to demon Yukio.
Wow thank you. That cleared a lot up. Seems like the anime had a huge flaw of not explaining the mechanics of how things happen. And how did everyone become crazy?
I can do that when I have more time. You can reference NeeNee’s summary of Ep20 (http://www.theblueknight.host-ed.me/forum/index.php/topic,29.msg304.html#msg304) about the crazy Anime!Rin
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 08, 2018, 11:03:40 AM
Moving on to another matter. I can't remember right now, but was it ever revealed/actually explained what was the profit the Illuminati were hoping to get by having Izumo/her mother successfully being possessed by the Nine Tails? To gain more data for the elixir experiments? Or they were kinda trying to test how a vessel (powered up by an elixir) would endure a possession by an high-level demon?

This aside, considering the foreshadows and the couple hints from Kato-sama's artworks:

(https://image.ibb.co/cxh8e6/pic.png)

and the fact that Shima teased Izumo (here in chapter 97) about not being too harsh to him after he leaves do you think there's a chance Izumo's gonna get a "revamp" on her character development (similar to Suguro after the IK arc)?
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 08, 2018, 11:20:14 AM
^That hair style isn't too rare in anime, right? Like Izuru Kira of Bleach or Ino Yamanaka of Naruto. Maybe it doesn't have special meaning in Japan fandom.
The emo trend is mostly unknown in japan, as far as I know. So the haircut is not associated with it.

Though I've seen some people say it's the 鬼太郎の髪型 Kitaro's haircut (from GeGeGe no Kitaro).

I can't remember right now, but was it ever revealed/actually explained what was the profit the Illuminati were hoping to get by having Izumo/her mother successfully being possessed by the Nine Tails? To gain more data for the elixir experiments? Or they were kinda trying to test how a vessel (powered up by an elixir) would endure a possession by an high-level demon?
No. It wasn't very clear, but they said the nine tail was "material" for the elixir. What "material" means and how it's used to make elixir is still a mystery though.

do you think there's a chance Izumo's gonna get a "revamp" on her character development (similar to Suguro after the IK arc)?
I hope so. Sincerely.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 08, 2018, 01:44:03 PM
Just list a possible direction. Agree that’s not really the most probable one. But if she intends to develop the story like that I bet Satan will be the major reason for them to take action. Not only Rin, we also have Bon and Koneko who do have reasons to find Satan.

I would list some if I had any idea. But, honestly, I'm at a complete loss this time. I thought of a scenario where the twins happen to meet once in a while and Rin (who'll get some kinda "dark/mature" development by then) and Yukio will develop something like a "cold" dynamic. But not 'cause Rin'd given up on Yukio or wouldn't be willing to try to save him anymore. He still will.

Yukio's words in chapter 97, "You're kind, I guess that's your limit" made me think if Rin "got the message" he may try to change his approach to Yukio and... "go on the offensive"? Let's say I expect more "balance" in their future confrontations so I pictured a Rin retorting to anything Yukio'd say in a "calm", even slightly "sarcastic" tone, and not in an "aggressive" one like usual. But I'm aware this'd be 100% ooc of Rin, so this is just my personal "fantasy" and not exactly something I hope to see in the manga. Not that I'd mind, oc.

Um, nope, I don't think Yukio trying to shoot Mephisto is more severe then Yukio threatening Suguro. I said Yukio was giving signs of a "dark change" before chapter 93 and I mentioned "pointing guns" referring to Suguro's case. What I meant is that while Yukio was doing "crazy" stuff before chapter 93 he was like in an "on/off" phase where he would do things but eventually fade back into his "fake" act.

After chapter 93, he doesn't care anymore about what he does and doesn't bother to put on the "fake" act anymore. I consider it a difference. Or as I called it, an "upgrade" to another level. I used the word "insane" 'cause that's the first word which came into my mind but I didn't mean "insane" as in "doing illogical things". Much like: acting without a care for his actions.
Well, then I think Yukio doesn’t change much in this chapter. You would expect if Yukio wants to choose a safer way he can still put the fake smile before Lucifer and patiently listen to that world peace plan despite he doesn’t believe it at all. But Yukio does continue his "let’s not fake about anything" attitude, acting without a care for his actions.

Exactly. That's why I specified Yukio "upgraded" to another level (the "let's not fake about anything" as you said) from chapter 93 onwards, which includes chapter 97 too. And I guess he's gonna keep it up until he "upgrades" to an even "higher" level (if that's possible) or until he's gonna "snap out of it" if there's the chance he's not really acting like himself after all. Which is low to non-existent, I know, but.

Edit:

Quote
You would expect if Yukio wants to choose a safer way he can still put the fake smile before Lucifer and patiently listen to that world peace plan despite he doesn’t believe it at all.

I couldn't resist.

(https://image.ibb.co/kqFvsR/lol.jpg)
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 08, 2018, 05:29:27 PM
Viz is out, comments ahoy!

Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 08, 2018, 05:59:38 PM
Hahah, earthy, you got almost my same reactions! I was about to type more than half you already commented!

To add a couple personal impressions (aside the fact I'm totally disappointed by Viz, this time ("...then I'll be stronger than my brother"?!?!? For fk sake, he's talking to Rin! Why the 3rd person dialogue choice?). Even the regular speeches font they chose for Satan... What happened? It looks like they did this translation in a rush and they had 4 days! Something sounds off on almost every page. *sighs*

So, the only one I liked in here is Shima. That part you mentioned in particular makes it sound like... he ACTUALLY worries about Rin? Are you kidding me? And how come he now gives two shets about how what happened is gonna affect the brothers' relationship? Isn't it a lil late to worry about that? You never did it before, you JERK (I'm gonna quote Izumo (seriously, this poor girl got to use only this line in these last two chapters))! I also liked the "NEXT TIME we meet..." Oh, good, if he's so certain he's gonna run into the exwires again, then why not Yukio too? *my hopes reach sky limits*

And, I dunno, staring harder at all Shima's expressions (especially his smiles) makes me wonder if he's kinda trying to "reassure" everyone it's not all exactly as it looks like. Like, some sort of sign of agreement (is that how is called?), like "Don't worry, it's all under control!" ('cause, you know, Lightning's STILL involved in this, right?... right?!) And, btw, didn't he bid goodbye to Suguro and Konekomaru the previous chapter? So I guess he meant it as: "I'm not gonna be on your side (the Order's) anymore, but we'll still happen to meet. We'll just be enemies."

Yukio knows the Dominus Liminis? So is its existence common knowledge or something?

Now that I think about it... Phosphorus? You mean, as in Rin's meaning of his name? Is that a coincidence or there's something behind it?

Homare: "Do not upset the commander." Yukio: "Oh, no worries, I'm gonna try my best to upset him as much as possible... and more."

Yukio tries to act politely for a... full 3 milliseconds? How kind of him, I wasn't expecting that much.

Now, goddamit. I'm getting confused here. "You are the world's hope for true peace." Why does it sound like Yukio could be a "vital" part in Lucifer's plan if he didn't even know about his eyes (or anything special about Yukio in general) up to a few months ago? I guess Lucifer was planning something for years (centuries). Now, how come all of a sudden Yukio is THAT important to reach his objective? Or so it sounds, at least.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Stella96 on January 08, 2018, 08:31:44 PM

and the fact that Shima teased Izumo (here in chapter 97) about not being too harsh to him after he leaves do you think there's a chance Izumo's gonna get a "revamp" on her character development (similar to Suguro after the IK arc)?
I've just thought about this
(https://image.ibb.co/gTQ1z6/IMG_0081.jpg)

A confrontation with this two could be very interesting actually. I wonder if Shima would be capable of hurt Izumo with his own hands
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 08, 2018, 11:11:47 PM
  • I prefer facets' summary of the Satan-Yukio-Rin conversation. I feel like Viz removed some details, like how Satan's deal was with Samael, or having Rin go "how?" and Yukio go "I don't know, anyway I'm going" instead of Rin go "wtf?" and Yukio go "yeah I know, that's why I'm going".
I don't have the raw in front of me, but if I remember correctly, it went more like;
Rin "Why is this happening?" (with satan and everything)
Yukio "I don't know. And that's exactly why I'm going."

  • Likewise, they nerfed Shiemi's line from "Yuki-chan, you are not allowed to go!" to "don't go, Yuki-chan!"
That kind of mistranslation often happens though. I'm so used to seeing it, I've kind of given up. Still I wouldn't do it.

"[VERB] dame da" = "[VERB] is not-good/unacceptable/not-allowed/..."
"[VERB] naide" = "do not [VERB]"
"[VERB] naide kudasai" = "please, do not [VERB]"
"[ME] ha [YOU] ni [VERB] tte hoshikunai" = "I do not want you to [VERB]"

Most of the time I can pretty much guess what went through their head is something like "Shiemi is a sweat girl. > In Japanese saying "dame da" is forceful but can still sound cute depending on who says it and the tone used. > In English it doesn't sound cute no matter who says it or how it's said. > Making Shiemi cute is more important than showing she was being somewhat forceful there. > Let's write "Don't go, Yuki-chan!" instead of something more accurate like "Yuki-chan! ... You can't go!" or "Yuki-chan! ... I won't allow you to go!""

  • "Get up Shima and take me with you!"
    ...
    *doubles over laughing with a mental image of Shima carrying Yukio bridal-style on the helicopter*
I know right? I didn't say anything, because in Japanese it doesn't sound as weird, but that's literally what he says. If I remember correctly and if we're even more literal, he says "Shima-kun, quick, take me and go!".

EDIT: less literally, he says "Shima-kun, hurry up, lead the way".

  • Viz translated the "I might die too" as "yeah, they might kill me too". Is that a valid read? Because I was under the impression that Yukio's telling Rin something more like "I might die [like you]", which segues into the "in the one-in-a-million chance we both survive this, I'll be stronger than you".
He didn't say anything about them killing him, nor how he would die. He just said he might die.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: SKL on January 08, 2018, 11:18:55 PM
Talking about Yukio and Rin's next meeting. I have a feeling they'll definitely have multiple instances where they meet and interact before the final confrontation. Their organizations are at war with one another after all.
But fore sure their next meeting won't be until after Rin and the rest become exorcists. That way, Rin will have more agency. He'll be treated less like an exwire that needs to be sheltered and supervised, and more like how Yukio was treated. Getting assigned missions and responsibilities as an exorcist and what not.

For sure the Order will put Yukio high up on their list of targets, and Rin will have to juggle avoiding avoiding them trying to kill Yukio, with him wanting to confront him at the same time. I can see them meeting on the sidelines exchanging words, or having competitive fights. It could be really interesting the possibilities and direction Katou can take this.

They needed to separate. Otherwise, they would run at each other in a constant loop. I'm better than you. I will surpass you. Let neither of us talk about the real issues. You can rely on me. Yeah, right. Why aren't you driven as I am? Why aren't you seeing my struggle? Over and over. I've been wondering if we will see a personality shift in Rin too and for him to rediscover himself to define his purpose as well.
Ahh agreed. Their relationship was going nowhere, so they needed to separate. It might get worse, but the way they were before, they weren't getting any better. This dramatic separation WILL cause change for better or for worse. Rin will understand Yukio better, and Yukio needed his space from Rin to make something of himself.
Before his life revolved around Rin and emulating Shiro, and he never had an identity or life that he felt was his only. So yes Yukio needed this. Well maybe not the going to the 'bad guys' side part -he could have run off to somewhere else-, but really the Illuminati seemed like the only place to go as he would have been renegade and hunted down with no security or time and means to get stronger.

I don't get it. Seems like Yukio didn't really shoot Mephisto, so do you really think Yukio's behavior in chapter 94 (with Mephisto) is more severe then his behavior in chapter 91 (with Bon)?

I think until now everything he has done is still very logical, so he doesn't seem ever reach so-called "insane" state. Though his emotion and priority changed a lot in this arc.

Um, nope, I don't think Yukio trying to shoot Mephisto is more severe then Yukio threatening Suguro. I said Yukio was giving signs of a "dark change" before chapter 93 and I mentioned "pointing guns" referring to Suguro's case. What I meant is that while Yukio was doing "crazy" stuff before chapter 93 he was like in an "on/off" phase where he would do things but eventually fade back into his "fake" act.

After chapter 93, he doesn't care anymore about what he does and doesn't bother to put on the "fake" act anymore. I consider it a difference. Or as I called it, an "upgrade" to another level. I used the word "insane" 'cause that's the first word which came into my mind but I didn't mean "insane" as in "doing illogical things". Much like: acting without a care for his actions.
Well, then I think Yukio doesn’t change much in this chapter. You would expect if Yukio wants to choose a safer way he can still put the fake smile before Lucifer and patiently listen to that world peace plan despite he doesn’t believe it at all. But Yukio does continue his "let’s not fake about anything" attitude, acting without a care for his actions.


Ahh it is so refreshing to not see that fake smile/politeness act anymore. It's weird. With Yukio, we know he is going down a dark path and will probably do things he will later regret. You could call it a character regression in some aspects. But on others, Yukio is going through a character progression. It's a strange dichotomy.

The first change in Yukio being that he no longer fears death. Some may not realize how BIG that really is. If you don't fear death, you don't fear the repercussions of being yourself. You don't fear stepping over some line. You can do anything you want. It's a certain freedom.
That's not to say Yukio is thrilled about it. No. He does have a moral compass after all, so breaking the hearts of his loved ones is something he would do, but it's not something he would feel gleeful about. He still hates himself and is fully aware how self-centered he is. And until he stops to hate himself, he can't make the next step. I kind of hope he takes the current freedom he has by being himself, and lightens up a bit because of it. No matter how sinister that sounds.

and the fact that Shima teased Izumo (here in chapter 97) about not being too harsh to him after he leaves do you think there's a chance Izumo's gonna get a "revamp" on her character development (similar to Suguro after the IK arc)?

I hope so very much. She'll be stale if she remains just the 'supportive' character of Rin and Shiemi's character arcs. Like yeah, manufacturing a new plot line like what happened with Bon. Or maybe Katou won't have time for that... :(

Homare: "Do not upset the commander." Yukio: "Oh, no worries, I'm gonna try my best to upset him as much as possible... and more."

Makes me wonder how Lucifer will react to Yukio basically calling him and his ideals SHIT, and rudely demanding Lucifer gives him what he wants.

I kind of imagine he will just react in a way like he did when Yukio was all 'I don't need it!' *angry stubborn face* Like he'll just muse at his youthful spirit and actions or give leniency to entertain Yukio's 'rebellious phase' and 'coming of age'

On the other hand it seems like Lucifer should re-assert his authority and where he stands on the hierarchy. Otherwise Yukio could walk all over him and the organization like he owns the place.

Quote
Now, goddamit. I'm getting confused here. "You are the world's hope for true peace." Why does it sound like Yukio could be a "vital" part in Lucifer's plan if he didn't even know about his eyes (or anything special about Yukio in general) up to a few months ago? I guess Lucifer was planning something for years (centuries). Now, how come all of a sudden Yukio is THAT important to reach his objective? Or so it sounds, at least.

Hmm well the, "You are the world's hope for true peace." could be the sales pitch Lucifer always uses to important agents. But yeah, Yukio is more important a recruit than your standard grunt.
I don't yet know if Yukio is 'vital' but he could be a huge boost to their cause. Like adding a guy with a machine gun to your army of archers. Certainly Yukio 'bringing Satan' for Lucifer is already a major acquisition to Lucifer.
But I can't say for sure yet how vital Yukio is. Like his link with Satan could end up being something to really make a big deal about.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 09, 2018, 12:38:17 AM
  • Viz translated the "I might die too" as "yeah, they might kill me too". Is that a valid read? Because I was under the impression that Yukio's telling Rin something more like "I might die [like you]", which segues into the "in the one-in-a-million chance we both survive this, I'll be stronger than you".
He didn't say anything about them killing him, nor how he would die. He just said he might die.
One more precision. Yukio says "too" not as in "All sort of things might happen to me. One of these things might be death." but as in "You might die and I might die as well."
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 09, 2018, 01:02:09 AM
  • Viz translated the "I might die too" as "yeah, they might kill me too". Is that a valid read? Because I was under the impression that Yukio's telling Rin something more like "I might die [like you]", which segues into the "in the one-in-a-million chance we both survive this, I'll be stronger than you".
He didn't say anything about them killing him, nor how he would die. He just said he might die.
One more precision. Yukio says "too" not as in "All sort of things might happen to me. One of these things might be death." but as in "You might die and I might die as well."

Yeah, a more accurate if more awkward way of putting it is "I too might die".

  • I prefer facets' summary of the Satan-Yukio-Rin conversation. I feel like Viz removed some details, like how Satan's deal was with Samael, or having Rin go "how?" and Yukio go "I don't know, anyway I'm going" instead of Rin go "wtf?" and Yukio go "yeah I know, that's why I'm going".
I don't have the raw in front of me, but if I remember correctly, it went more like;
Rin "Why is this happening?" (with satan and everything)
Yukio "I don't know. And that's exactly why I'm going."

(Transcribing by literally copy-pasting the hiragana from the wiki page, man I feel stupid.)
R: ?? どうなつてるんだ!?
Y: さあ だからいくよ

If I remember correctly and if we're even more literal, he says "Shima-kun, quick, take me and go!".

*spits out water* oh my god.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 09, 2018, 02:21:10 AM
Yeah, a more accurate if more awkward way of putting it is "I too might die".
Yeah, exactly.

(Transcribing by literally copy-pasting the hiragana from the wiki page, man I feel stupid.)
If you don't have a Japanese keyboard input, you can always go to google translate, set Japanese on the left space, click on the あ in the bottom left corner, and it will change what you write into hiragana, then if you want you can hit the spacebar to change the hiragana into kanji or katakana, when you have what you want hit enter to confirm.

R: ?? どうなつてるんだ!?
Y: さあ だからいくよ
Thanks.

Right, he used さあ. さあ is such a nice word. Even though it's not technically a word. I don't know if I like さあ or ちょっと better. さあ basically means "who knows" or "I have absolutely no idea" or "I don't have a single clue", you get the idea. In some contexts it can also mean "I don't know, and honestly I'm not even interested in knowing." Though obviously this is not the case here. In some other contexts it can mean "Maybe I know, but I won't tell you no matter what you do." This is also not the case here. Here, Yukio is using the basic meaning.

だから means "that's why"

(the subject "I" is omitted by the way)

いく means "go"

よ is like か or ね. It has to be at the end of the sentence. か means the sentence is a question. ね or な means you ask the other person what's their opinion on what you just told them; or depending on the intonation it could be you are asking for their agreement. よ means (that you at least think) you're informing the other person of something they don't already know; it could also mean you're pretending the other person keeps forgetting something you always keep telling them because no matter how many time you tell them they still don't listen to you, even though it's highly possible they remember you told them but just don't believe you, or don't agree with you, or won't listen to you for whatever reasons.

どう means "how"

なってる (なっている if you don't speak in slang) is the verb "to become" conjugated in the ... ... ... action-currently-in-progress tense.

どうなっている means "what is happening" or "what is going on" or "how did things become like this"

んだ (or んです) can mean an awful lot of different things depending on the context, but here it means the question he's asking is based on the observations he made and the knowledge he gained just now. I know it's obvious here, but that's still the purpose of it. Not saying it in this case would sound like he didn't even notice the slightest thing and is completely unaware of what's going on, and therefore asking an absolutely genuine "what's happening here, I just walked in and was wondering what you were doing?".

*spits out water* oh my god.
IKR X')
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Mojo on January 09, 2018, 03:04:40 AM
Oh wow, those two are really giving me final antagonists vibe. The question is whether Katou can do it and still keep the ending semi-happy with how irredeemable the two look atm. Shima seems to have at least shown some concern for Rin in the helicopter compared to Yukio, but I'm willing to accept that as his way of looking for a reaction from Yukio considering how ruthless he has been in the past (The Izumo abuse and Trapping Rin in the Zombie monster). I loved how Yukio cut off the conversation about the world peace as if he expected it, he didn't blame anyone for the current state of things but himself. Characters like that tend to be very difficult to change and I'm interested in how Rin is gonna go about saving him.

Also Bon is really a gentleman, huh? This guy is too good for all of this, you could see why Renzou confronted Lighting about manipulating him despite being  a manipulative shitbag himself. I wonder if this Yukio fiasco will force Shiemi to put her retirement (not sure if that's the word) on hold for now. She seems very attached to the twins and considering her "I couldn't help him, it's my fault" mentality, she will definitely not get a Paku-like treatment where she "leaves the rest" to Rin and co.


I think We will have few chapters on the exwires reactions+Mephistos decisions+ Lightning's plan and then head into Shiemi's arc.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 09, 2018, 09:34:28 AM
  • Viz translated the "I might die too" as "yeah, they might kill me too". Is that a valid read? Because I was under the impression that Yukio's telling Rin something more like "I might die [like you]", which segues into the "in the one-in-a-million chance we both survive this, I'll be stronger than you".
He didn't say anything about them killing him, nor how he would die. He just said he might die.
One more precision. Yukio says "too" not as in "All sort of things might happen to me. One of these things might be death." but as in "You might die and I might die as well."

This aside, there's something else I don't understand. Tell me if I'm wrong. Okay, we got it the point is "You might die and I might die as well." but Yukio (in the Viz's translation), as I read it, doesn't talk about merely "dying" but specifically "getting killed" (by the Illuminati). So why to me it sounds like what he meant to say was: "The Illuminati might kill you and I might be killed (by them) as well." Why should Yukio think the Illuminati may want/try to kill Rin? Sorry if it's a stupid question.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 09, 2018, 10:02:25 AM
I can't remember right now, but was it ever revealed/actually explained what was the profit the Illuminati were hoping to get by having Izumo/her mother successfully being possessed by the Nine Tails? To gain more data for the elixir experiments? Or they were kinda trying to test how a vessel (powered up by an elixir) would endure a possession by an high-level demon?
No. It wasn't very clear, but they said the nine tail was "material" for the elixir. What "material" means and how it's used to make elixir is still a mystery though.
Lucifer said Tamamo (presumably he means nine-tail) is for those chosen one (http://mangalife.us/read-online/Ao-No-Exorcist-chapter-56-page-11.html).

I feel like Viz removed some details, like how Satan's deal was with Samael
I think it becomes "promise" at the end of Satan’s sentence in Viz's version. The Kanji is 約束

なってる (なっている if you don't speak in slang) is the verb "to become" conjugated in the ... ... ... action-currently-in-progress tense.
"This really is a blast!" *Rin's demon heart flames out of his chest* Viz, we need to have a talk about your puns.
And that’s not an accurate translation either. The raw is 面白くなってきた.

面白 = interesting, like Satan's comment on Shiemi, and なって I think is similar to chino's explanation above

So it’s more like "things become interesting".

"Gunnar"? I thought those guys were called Lund and Strom?
I check the raw, and that’s surely different than their names in nine-tail arc. I wonder if that’s a name of a group or something, or is he just not who we saw before? (I mean, perhaps for some reason there are more than two members with similar appearance …)

("...then I'll be stronger than my brother"?!?!? For fk sake, he's talking to Rin! Why the 3rd person dialogue choice?)
I think that’s the mistranslation of Yukio’s 兄さん. I hope it’s not like they finally decide that because it’s too trouble to transform 兄さん to Rin every time, so let’s just translate it to "my brother" every time ...

sound like... he ACTUALLY worries about Rin?
I felt he’s actually worrying about Rin when the raw is out. He can't anticipate this happened anyway.

how come he now gives two shets about how what happened is gonna affect the brothers' relationship?
He’s not talking about the brothers' relationship. It’s about you can't regret now = do you have the determination?

you JERK (I'm gonna quote Izumo (seriously, this poor girl got to use only this line in these last two chapters))!
So true = =

Yukio knows the Dominus Liminis? So is its existence common knowledge or something?
That’s interesting. Rereading the raw it seems like Shima actually spelled it wrong and he doesn't know its Kanji. But Yukio spelled it correctly and fully understands its Kanji.

-Apparently she has the rank Adeptus Major and the group she leads is called Phosphorus/Golden Star depending on whether you read the katakana or the kanji.
Phosphorus? You mean, as in Rin's meaning of his name? Is that a coincidence or there's something behind it?
I think that’s named after [morning star = Phosphorus] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus_(morning_star)). If you delete の of the raw 金の星(golden star), then it becomes 金星 which exactly means Venus. Also you can find its connection to Lucifer in above wiki page. Not sure if it’s related to Rin since there isn’t the Kanji of Rin’s name

I'm getting confused here. "You are the world's hope for true peace." Why does it sound like Yukio could be a "vital" part in Lucifer's plan if he didn't even know about his eyes (or anything special about Yukio in general) up to a few months ago?
I always think he’s very important. Maybe not to the level of indispensable, but since it’s so important to follow Yukio’s own will, Lucifer surely doesn’t want him to be just some random soldier. Lucifer can have many objectives and some of them are formed after he confirmed Yukio’s state.

and the fact that Shima teased Izumo (here in chapter 97) about not being too harsh to him after he leaves do you think there's a chance Izumo's gonna get a "revamp" on her character development (similar to Suguro after the IK arc)?

I hope so very much. She'll be stale if she remains just the 'supportive' character of Rin and Shiemi's character arcs. Like yeah, manufacturing a new plot line like what happened with Bon. Or maybe Katou won't have time for that... :(
I think that’s certainly the case, otherwise Kato won’t emphasize that again in this chapter. And if Bon and Koneko can’t make the decision to against him, then we only have Izumo left for this job.

Homare: "Do not upset the commander." Yukio: "Oh, no worries, I'm gonna try my best to upset him as much as possible... and more."

Makes me wonder how Lucifer will react to Yukio basically calling him and his ideals SHIT, and rudely demanding Lucifer gives him what he wants.

I kind of imagine he will just react in a way like he did when Yukio was all 'I don't need it!' *angry stubborn face* Like he'll just muse at his youthful spirit and actions or give leniency to entertain Yukio's 'rebellious phase' and 'coming of age'

On the other hand it seems like Lucifer should re-assert his authority and where he stands on the hierarchy. Otherwise Yukio could walk all over him and the organization like he owns the place.
That’s not a problem as long as everyone still listens to Lucifer’s command. It’s not like Yukio already object him in front of them. I think Lucifer will continue to say his plan as before. Whatever this world peace plan is, it’s likely combined with what Lucifer wants Yukio to do and what secret Lucifer plan to reveal to Yukio.

  • Viz translated the "I might die too" as "yeah, they might kill me too". Is that a valid read? Because I was under the impression that Yukio's telling Rin something more like "I might die [like you]", which segues into the "in the one-in-a-million chance we both survive this, I'll be stronger than you".
He didn't say anything about them killing him, nor how he would die. He just said he might die.
One more precision. Yukio says "too" not as in "All sort of things might happen to me. One of these things might be death." but as in "You might die and I might die as well."

Yeah, a more accurate if more awkward way of putting it is "I too might die".
Could it be "I also might die"? Or it’s more weird for native English speaker? Honestly I didn't know there’s the difference with the position of the "too".

If I remember correctly and if we're even more literal, he says "Shima-kun, quick, take me and go!".

*spits out water* oh my god.
Similarly I didn't know "take me" has … that implication in English. Looks like we should be more careful to use this phrase …

Yukio (in the Viz's translation), as I read it, doesn't talk about merely "dying" but specifically "getting killed" (by the Illuminati).
That's Viz overtranslation. In the raw the subjective is " I " and the verb is "die" instead of "kill". Reasonably he doesn't mean the Illuminati might kill Rin but should be more like referring Rin's current state.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 09, 2018, 02:12:30 PM
  • Viz translated the "I might die too" as "yeah, they might kill me too". Is that a valid read? Because I was under the impression that Yukio's telling Rin something more like "I might die [like you]", which segues into the "in the one-in-a-million chance we both survive this, I'll be stronger than you".
He didn't say anything about them killing him, nor how he would die. He just said he might die.
One more precision. Yukio says "too" not as in "All sort of things might happen to me. One of these things might be death." but as in "You might die and I might die as well."

This aside, there's something else I don't understand. Tell me if I'm wrong. Okay, we got it the point is "You might die and I might die as well." but Yukio (in the Viz's translation), as I read it, doesn't talk about merely "dying" but specifically "getting killed" (by the Illuminati). So why to me it sounds like what he meant to say was: "The Illuminati might kill you and I might be killed (by them) as well." Why should Yukio think the Illuminati may want/try to kill Rin? Sorry if it's a stupid question.
Like I said above (in bold), he didn't say "kill" he said "die" and he didn't mention the Illuminati. As far as I can remember. Wait, let me check, even though my internet is low as hell.

Yeah, he says, 僕も死ぬかもな (i.e. 僕も死ぬかもしれないね).

なってる (なっている if you don't speak in slang) is the verb "to become" conjugated in the ... ... ... action-currently-in-progress tense.
"This really is a blast!" *Rin's demon heart flames out of his chest* Viz, we need to have a talk about your puns.
And that’s not an accurate translation either. The raw is 面白くなってきた.

面白 = interesting, like Satan's comment on Shiemi, and なって I think is similar to chino's explanation above

So it’s more like "things become interesting".
[VERB]ってきた and [VERB]っていく are used to point out the evolution of a situation.

くる means "to come"
きた (or きました) is the past tense of くる.

いく means "to go".
いく is the infinitive, present or future tense. In this case it's future.

[VERB]ってきた means "came to [VERB]".
It means the situation evolved to that point.
It's used to evaluate or analyze past events compared with the present.

[VERB]っていく means "is going to [VERB]".
It means the situation looks like it will evolve to that point.
It's used to make predictions of future events compared with the present.

なる means "to become"
なって is what is called the "-tte form" or the "-te form". It's used to connect verbs to other things. Here it's to connect it to another verb.

なってきた means "it came to become" or "it has become" since the previous one sounds awkward in English.

なっていく means "it is going to become".


面白くなってきた , like you said, means "things have become interesting" or "it has become interesting".

Could it be "I also might die"? Or it’s more weird for native English speaker?
"Also" can affect words anywhere in the sentence. It's not awkward to say "I also might die" or "I might die also". But you can't really tell if it means the listener might also die or if dying is one of many things that can happen to you.

note: "Also, I might die" clearly means dying is one of many things that can happen to you.

Honestly I didn't know there’s the difference with the position of the "too".
"Too" can only affect a word that's before it in the sentence. Often it's right before it, but not always.

"I saw you eat the cake."
"I too saw you eat the cake. (other people saw you)
"I saw you too eat the cake. (other people ate parts of the cake) [sounds somewhat awkward for some reason]
"I saw you eat the cake too. (you also ate other things) ... or (other people ate parts of the cake) [doesn't sound awkward even though it makes less sense to put it there]
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 09, 2018, 05:13:26 PM
^ Man, I sooo love english language.

Dammit, Viz. Like it wasn't hard enough to decrypt this plot already, ya had to make it even more confusing. Thank God we have you guys/gals which can help us with Japanese.

I didn't notice, but this chapter was shorter than usual. 27 pages.

About Izumo, she also had a connection with the Illuminati before. Maybe this could come into play again.

I had another thought about this chapter. Yukio said that Rin being kind it's his limit. Isnt't this a contradiction? For the whole plot Kato-sama made it look like what or what mainly Yukio believed he was lacking compared to Rin was his -innate- kindness. Like, you know, chapter 29. So I assumed Yukio considered Rin's kindness the "source" of his strength or something like that and that's why he felt frustrated/envied Rin. Even up to chapter 96, when Yukio said he considers Rin the perfect one. That's what I believe Yukio meant, that he was referring to Rin's innate kindness and not only/strictly to his power. So isn't it weird Yukio now, all of a sudden, defined Rin's kindness his limit? Even Shima said that Rin's "love" is his weakness but also his strength. So, I don't know, but this line sounds a bit off to me. Or was Yukio just trying to provoke Rin? But what for?

Also, my question is, is Shima aware that he's collaborating with someone who plans to annihilate the world (guess so)? So is he okay with this? Or did Lucifer promise him he will spare his friends?
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: spicychickendeluxe on January 09, 2018, 08:12:57 PM
^ Man, I sooo love english language.

Dammit, Viz. Like it wasn't hard enough to decrypt this plot already, ya had to make it even more confusing. Thank God we have you guys/gals which can help us with Japanese.

I didn't notice, but this chapter was shorter than usual. 25 pages.

About Izumo, she also had a connection with the Illuminati before. Maybe this could come into play again.

I had another thought about this chapter. Yukio said that Rin being kind it's his limit. Isnt't this a contradiction? For the whole plot Kato-sama made it look like what or what mainly Yukio believed he was lacking compared to Rin was his -innate- kindness. Like, you know, chapter 29. So I assumed Yukio considered Rin's kindness the "source" of his strength or something like that and that's why he felt frustrated/envied Rin. Even up to chapter 96, when Yukio said he considers Rin the perfect one. That's what I believe Yukio meant, that he was referring to Rin's innate kindness and not only/strictly to his power. So isn't it weird Yukio now, all of a sudden, defined Rin's kindness his limit? Even Shima said that Rin's "love" is his weakness but also his strength. So, I don't know, but this line sounds a bit off to me. Or was Yukio just trying to provoke Rin? But what for?

Also, my question is, is Shima aware that he's collaborating with someone who plans to annihilate the world (guess so)? So is he okay with this? Or did Lucifer promise him he will spare his friends?

I had the same thoughts about the "this is your limit" comment from Yukio. I don't know I am kind of confused by why he said that. I was thinking maybe he brought it up because while it is Rin's strength, it is also his weakness. Maybe later Yukio will use this to his advantage maybe if he wants to be stronger than Rin? But then again that doesn't make sense to me because I thought a big reason why Rin is so strong in Yukios eyes is his kindness. So why would Yukio want to do that? I don't know it really confuses me.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 09, 2018, 09:04:35 PM
"Gunnar"? I thought those guys were called Lund and Strom?

On second thought, and I know it's unlikely, but what if that's the surname? Well, I know they look like twins (Lund and Strom) so I guess they actually are, so they should share the same surname, so calling one of them by their surname could be confusing. But, since one of them was already set to follow Homare, I think it should be logic the Gunnar (if that's the surname) she was referring to was the other.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 11, 2018, 04:16:53 PM
Yukio said that Rin being kind it's his limit. Isnt't this a contradiction? For the whole plot Kato-sama made it look like what or what mainly Yukio believed he was lacking compared to Rin was his -innate- kindness. Like, you know, chapter 29. So I assumed Yukio considered Rin's kindness the "source" of his strength or something like that and that's why he felt frustrated/envied Rin. Even up to chapter 96, when Yukio said he considers Rin the perfect one. That's what I believe Yukio meant, that he was referring to Rin's innate kindness and not only/strictly to his power. So isn't it weird Yukio now, all of a sudden, defined Rin's kindness his limit? Even Shima said that Rin's "love" is his weakness but also his strength.
I had the same thoughts about the "this is your limit" comment from Yukio. I don't know I am kind of confused by why he said that. I was thinking maybe he brought it up because while it is Rin's strength, it is also his weakness. Maybe later Yukio will use this to his advantage maybe if he wants to be stronger than Rin? But then again that doesn't make sense to me because I thought a big reason why Rin is so strong in Yukios eyes is his kindness.
I don't think kindness is both strength and weakness at the same time. It's more like, kindness is strength in some situation but weakness in other situation. In chapter 56 what Shima means (and what Lucifer gets) is definitely more about weakness, or at least something like "Although Rin's kindness is his strength most of the time, it becomes weakness when he has to fight us (human members of Illuminati)".

In my opinion, one of the reason why Yukio considers it's Rin's limit is, if Rin has less kindness and he attacked Yukio more violently or continued the berserk state longer, he can kill Yukio. So Yukio is disappointed because he lose a chance to successfully die

is Shima aware that he's collaborating with someone who plans to annihilate the world (guess so)?
We don't know Lucifer's plan yet. We don't know what it would be when two worlds merge.

is he okay with this? Or did Lucifer promise him he will spare his friends?
The same thing can be said to Toudou or all Illuminat human members. Not necessarily any promise, but you can think about it this way : the closer you get to Lucifer and/or the more trust he has on you, the more chance and resource you can survive with after Lucifer wins
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 11, 2018, 07:35:14 PM
is Shima aware that he's collaborating with someone who plans to annihilate the world (guess so)?
We don't know Lucifer's plan yet. We don't know what it would be when two worlds merge.

(https://image.ibb.co/njow46/illuminaticode.jpg)

I know it's not that clear, but since I doubt Lucifer's willing to create a world without a single form of life, I guess what the Illuminati code means is "a single world with neither human or demon but 'creatures' who are both." And I think, since the demon eaters are technically beings which are both things, maybe Lucifer is planning to make them the inhabitants of that world. That's why they're also called the chosen ones?
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 11, 2018, 08:28:11 PM
is Shima aware that he's collaborating with someone who plans to annihilate the world (guess so)?
We don't know Lucifer's plan yet. We don't know what it would be when two worlds merge.

(https://image.ibb.co/njow46/illuminaticode.jpg)

I know it's not that clear, but since I doubt Lucifer's willing to create a world without a single form of life, I guess what the Illuminati code means is "a single world with neither human or demon but 'creatures' who are both." And I think, since the demon eaters are technically beings which are both things, maybe Lucifer is planning to make them the inhabitants of that world. That's why they're also called the chosen ones?

But Lucy also intends to use the demon eaters as materials for Satan's body.

Although, why would he need a body if he intends to take Rin's?

Oh. Wait. I think Satan has to destroy Rin's demon heart first to make Rin's body vacant. I guess he'd need a body for that, if Yukio's eyes are incapable of channeling enough power to do so.

Although, then what's Lucy's plan? Let Satan destroy everything? Including the concepts? Darn it I get so confused thinking about this.

In all this, methinks Yukio is a Neutral Evil and Shima is a Chaotic Neutral or True Neutral.

Shima doesn't even know the core goals of the Illuminati. Bringing in Yukio was the requirement for him to get a better position in the Illuminati to deliver intel to Mephisto.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Kittykat on January 11, 2018, 11:31:47 PM
is Shima aware that he's collaborating with someone who plans to annihilate the world (guess so)?
We don't know Lucifer's plan yet. We don't know what it would be when two worlds merge.

(https://image.ibb.co/njow46/illuminaticode.jpg)

I know it's not that clear, but since I doubt Lucifer's willing to create a world without a single form of life, I guess what the Illuminati code means is "a single world with neither human or demon but 'creatures' who are both." And I think, since the demon eaters are technically beings which are both things, maybe Lucifer is planning to make them the inhabitants of that world. That's why they're also called the chosen ones?

But Lucy also intends to use the demon eaters as materials for Satan's body.

Although, why would he need a body if he intends to take Rin's?

Oh. Wait. I think Satan has to destroy Rin's demon heart first to make Rin's body vacant. I guess he'd need a body for that, if Yukio's eyes are incapable of channeling enough power to do so.

Although, then what's Lucy's plan? Let Satan destroy everything? Including the concepts? Darn it I get so confused thinking about this.

In all this, methinks Yukio is a Neutral Evil and Shima is a Chaotic Neutral or True Neutral.

Shima doesn't even know the core goals of the Illuminati. Bringing in Yukio was the requirement for him to get a better position in the Illuminati to deliver intel to Mephisto.

He wishes to go back to the original concept. That means destruction of humans since humanity is responsible for the concepts gaining consciousness/sentience/awareness, so humans are responsible for their revolving pain. Is that still his goal, or is he appeasing groups with flowery words to get their support? Father/prince/king of lies and all that.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 12, 2018, 01:23:46 AM
In all this, methinks Yukio is a Neutral Evil and Shima is a Chaotic Neutral or True Neutral.
Shima is definitely a True Neutral. He's nowhere near Chaotic.

A Chaotic character would be like Amaimon (Chaotic Evil) or Kuro (Chaotic Good).

Yukio was a Loyal Good (when he was a kid), that turned Loyal Neutral (at the start of the manga), that turned Chaotic Neutral (when he started doubting the Order), that now seems to have turned Neutral Evil (when he joined the Illuminati) even though he has yet to do one evil thing. That's of course if you don't count killing demons as evil.

EDIT: Just for fun.

 -Loyal Good-    -Loyal Neutral-    -Loyal Evil-

                                Arthur               Lucifer

-Neutral Good-   -True Neutral-    -Neutral Evil-

      Izumo              Lightning             Toudou
  Konekomaru        Mephisto              Yukio
        Rin                  Renzou
      Ryuuji
      Shiemi
      Shura

-Chaotic Good-  -Chaotic Neutral-  -Chaotic Evil-

        Kuro                                           Amaimon
                                                             Satan
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 12, 2018, 08:54:44 AM
In my opinion, one of the reason why Yukio considers it's Rin's limit is, if Rin has less kindness and he attacked Yukio more violently or continued the berserk state longer, he can kill Yukio. So Yukio is disappointed because he lose a chance to successfully die

I don't know. Yukio knew Rin would've failed 'cause Satan would've protected him, so I guess it's not like he was expecting Rin would actually succeed. Unless he thought Rin's flames could be more "effective" than bullets, etc.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 12, 2018, 04:20:44 PM
^ Rin's flames should be more effective than bullets. Otherwise there is no point to desire his flame or expect him to save Assiah.

Though that's just one theory to interpret Yukio's meaning. We may get to know more of Yukio's thoughts about Rin in later chapters

Although, why would he need a body if he intends to take Rin's?

Oh. Wait. I think Satan has to destroy Rin's demon heart first to make Rin's body vacant. I guess he'd need a body for that, if Yukio's eyes are incapable of channeling enough power to do so.

Although, then what's Lucy's plan? Let Satan destroy everything? Including the concepts?
Just don't directly assume Satan and Lucifer have the same plan or even belong to the same side. In the chart of V19 (http://facets-and-rainbows.tumblr.com/post/159176615140/strongcraving-from-ane-volume-19-my-dudes) Satan is only on his own side.

We also don't know whether Satan plan to destroy everything. He just said he wants to own Assiah.

(My theory about this : Perhaps Lucifer and Samael independent proposed plan to make Satan's perfect vessel, like competing for Daddy's love. Lucifer's plan is to make the vessel from his demonic science research while Samael's plan is to make the vessel from Rin)

He wishes to go back to the original concept. That means destruction of humans since humanity is responsible for the concepts gaining consciousness/sentience/awareness, so humans are responsible for their revolving pain. Is that still his goal, or is he appeasing groups with flowery words to get their support? Father/prince/king of lies and all that.
Lucifer said that just because he couldn't have a healthy body ...

EDIT: Just for fun.

 -Loyal Good-    -Loyal Neutral-    -Loyal Evil-

                                Arthur               Lucifer

-Neutral Good-   -True Neutral-    -Neutral Evil-

      Izumo              Lightning             Toudou
  Konekomaru        Mephisto              Yukio
        Rin                  Renzou
      Ryuuji
      Shiemi
      Shura

-Chaotic Good-  -Chaotic Neutral-  -Chaotic Evil-

        Kuro                                           Amaimon
                                                             Satan
IMO Amaimon hasn't really do anything that we are confirmed it's evil, so I'd rather regard him as Chaotic Neutral. In a sense Yukio is also like Chaotic Neutral now.

On the other hand, is Toudou really loyal to anything? Until his true objective revealed I'd feel him Chaotic Evil.

Also if Lucifer work for his own interest, is he like Loyal Evil? I think Gedoin or Hachiro is more like Loyal Evil.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 12, 2018, 06:20:00 PM
^ I agree, Yukio looked like he was disappointed that Rin couldn't kill him. That was the limit.

The way Yukio views things, he wants to be dead more than anything. That way he can't hurt anyone, right? (Lol no, the idiot.) But he can't die, so instead of being in the living hell that is his physical and mental weakness, he's chosen to pursue strength at all cost. He removes himself from the people he could hurt, and scares them away so they don't follow him.

Just don't directly assume Satan and Lucifer have the same plan or even belong to the same side. In the chart of V19 (http://facets-and-rainbows.tumblr.com/post/159176615140/strongcraving-from-ane-volume-19-my-dudes) Satan is only on his own side.

True. Still, Satan seems to have a simple plan of control and dominate. It's Lucifer that I don't understand. What is stopping him from blowing up the world by killing himself? What is with this "no humans, no demons" thing? Does he honestly believe in leading the world to true peace? I think he legit might.

That means that Yukio's actually more aligned with Satan, who seems ambivalent to Lucifer's goals.

IMO Amaimon hasn't really do anything that we are confirmed it's evil, so I'd rather regard him as Chaotic Neutral. In a sense Yukio is also like Chaotic Neutral now.

On the other hand, is Toudou really loyal to anything? Until his true objective revealed I'd feel him Chaotic Evil.

Also if Lucifer work for his own interest, is he like Loyal Evil? I think Gedoin or Hachiro is more like Loyal Evil.

Amaimon's control of Shiemi in chapter 13 makes him evil IMO.

Chaotics are usually characterized by a value for freedom above all else. Yukio is much more willing to choose a mix of chaotic and lawful acts, as long as he gets what he wants. That's why he's a classic Neutral Evil, the most selfish of all alignments.

Toudou is confusing, honestly. I thought he was chaotic, but his actions are much more consistent with Neutral Evil. He let Lucifer deal with Yukio despite his own personal desire to meet Yukio again, prioritizing the organization over his personal wants. Likewise, despite lecturing Yukio about family constraining him, Saburota has a relative working also in the Illuminati. That indicates that Toudou is flexible about his desires, willing to put them aside for a central goal.

Lucifer appears to believe in his own rhetoric, so yes, Loyal Evil.

Shima is definitely a True Neutral. He's nowhere near Chaotic.

Frig. You're right. I derped.

Yukio was a Loyal Good (when he was a kid), that turned Loyal Neutral (at the start of the manga), that turned Chaotic Neutral (when he started doubting the Order), that now seems to have turned Neutral Evil (when he joined the Illuminati) even though he has yet to do one evil thing. That's of course if you don't count killing demons as evil.

That is a very good point. Yukio has yet to do legit evil things. I don't count him shooting Rin in the head, because Rin has the best regeneration ever and even healed from having his guts smashed open by Amaimon.

It'd be hilarious if Yukio acts like he's evil but blocks the Illuminati from hurting noncombatants and others on his missions. It'd be like, dude, you suck at this whole evil thing.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 12, 2018, 07:56:27 PM
IMO Amaimon hasn't really do anything that we are confirmed it's evil, so I'd rather regard him as Chaotic Neutral. In a sense Yukio is also like Chaotic Neutral now.

On the other hand, is Toudou really loyal to anything? Until his true objective revealed I'd feel him Chaotic Evil.

Also if Lucifer work for his own interest, is he like Loyal Evil? I think Gedoin or Hachiro is more like Loyal Evil.
Amaimon's control of Shiemi in chapter 13 makes him evil IMO.

Chaotics are usually characterized by a value for freedom above all else. Yukio is much more willing to choose a mix of chaotic and lawful acts, as long as he gets what he wants. That's why he's a classic Neutral Evil, the most selfish of all alignments.

Toudou is confusing, honestly. I thought he was chaotic, but his actions are much more consistent with Neutral Evil. He let Lucifer deal with Yukio despite his own personal desire to meet Yukio again, prioritizing the organization over his personal wants. Likewise, despite lecturing Yukio about family constraining him, Saburota has a relative working also in the Illuminati. That indicates that Toudou is flexible about his desires, willing to put them aside for a central goal.

Lucifer appears to believe in his own rhetoric, so yes, Loyal Evil.
Earthforge pretty much said everything already. But I'll add a few things.

Regarding Amaimon, not only his control of Shiemi, but also his attempt to pluck her eye balls out.

Lucifer might seem like he's doing what he wants since he's at the head of his own organization, but he's bound as anyone else inside the organization by the rules of that organization, maybe even more so than anyone else. Also he seems very loyal to Satan, so you can also count that.

Damn, got to go.

EDIT: Yeah, forget about my last point on Lucifer. Satan is just one guy, so no matter how loyal he is to him, that doesn't count. But I still stand by my point on organization leaders. Leaders have to follow rules more than anyone else.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 13, 2018, 05:18:05 AM
Just don't directly assume Satan and Lucifer have the same plan or even belong to the same side. In the chart of V19 (http://facets-and-rainbows.tumblr.com/post/159176615140/strongcraving-from-ane-volume-19-my-dudes) Satan is only on his own side.

True. Still, Satan seems to have a simple plan of control and dominate. It's Lucifer that I don't understand. What is stopping him from blowing up the world by killing himself? What is with this "no humans, no demons" thing? Does he honestly believe in leading the world to true peace?
In my experience, whenever someone said something vague enough or too good to be true, it just means there are more trick in it. Those sounds like empty beautiful words, and usually one has to use empty beautiful words because all other details are ugly.

World peace simply means there is no conflict now. Therefore, whoever wins at the end is a kind of world peace because all other people have to follow the final leader (or all other people become too weak to disobey). The mysterious no human / no demon can have many kind of abstract meaning, for example you don't bother to distinguish who is human or demon because you all have to obey me and I'll judge who is allowed to do what or who should be killed no matter you are human or demon.

(The suicide declaration was just for displaying determination in order to threat others. I mean, when he seriously wants to die he doesn't have to tell others in advance)

Toudou is confusing, honestly. I thought he was chaotic, but his actions are much more consistent with Neutral Evil. He let Lucifer deal with Yukio despite his own personal desire to meet Yukio again, prioritizing the organization over his personal wants. Likewise, despite lecturing Yukio about family constraining him, Saburota has a relative working also in the Illuminati. That indicates that Toudou is flexible about his desires, willing to put them aside for a central goal.
Perhaps he can't capture Yukio by himself (that's what happened in IK arc) so he told Lucifer for his own benefit. Besides congratulating Lucifer, the only thing he did for the Illuminati we have seen so far is to help transport Hachiro (after Shima finished the more difficult part), unlike the other Toudou who apparently leads a group of people and joins the meeting. Until now we almost don't have any evidence whether he is loyal to Illuminati or using Illuminati. So I still regard him chaotic at this point.

It'd be hilarious if Yukio acts like he's evil but blocks the Illuminati from hurting noncombatants and others on his missions. It'd be like, dude, you suck at this whole evil thing.
Yes, so I'll wait until that moment to judge whether Yukio actually turns evil

Earthforge pretty much said everything already. But I'll add a few things.

Regarding Amaimon, not only his control of Shiemi, but also his attempt to pluck her eye balls out.

Lucifer might seem like he's doing what he wants since he's at the head of his own organization, but he's bound as anyone else inside the organization by the rules of that organization, maybe even more so than anyone else. Also he seems very loyal to Satan, so you can also count that.

Damn, got to go.

EDIT: Yeah, forget about my last point on Lucifer. Satan is just one guy, so no matter how loyal he is to him, that doesn't count. But I still stand by my point on organization leaders. Leaders have to follow rules more than anyone else.
We don't really have many clues about how Illuminati conduct their rules. Lucifer killed Gedoin, but only after Gedoin failed in fighting and conveniently be brought back, which means it was no where near his top priority, otherwise he should kill him before leaving. Whether Lucifer himself bound to any discipline is also unclear. That's much different from Hachiro, who clearly has a fixed mindset about contract and promise.

I assume all Amaimon said in camp arc is to provoke Rin since Mephisto doesn't allow him to hurt them. He did release Shiemi immediately. Seems like Amaimon doesn't see human as valuable as we do but that's kind of understandable.

I think the exwires are only put to Neutral Good because the current jailbreak? They don't seem ever do other disloyal thing. I would say Koneko can still be counted as Loyal Good because I believe he is just loyal to Bon.

BTW, how can we classify Shiro? Or we just don't have enough information yet?
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 13, 2018, 08:22:54 AM
Toudou is confusing, honestly. I thought he was chaotic, but his actions are much more consistent with Neutral Evil. He let Lucifer deal with Yukio despite his own personal desire to meet Yukio again, prioritizing the organization over his personal wants. Likewise, despite lecturing Yukio about family constraining him, Saburota has a relative working also in the Illuminati. That indicates that Toudou is flexible about his desires, willing to put them aside for a central goal.
Perhaps he can't capture Yukio by himself (that's what happened in IK arc) so he told Lucifer for his own benefit. Besides congratulating Lucifer, the only thing he did for the Illuminati we have seen so far is to help transport Hachiro (after Shima finished the more difficult part), unlike the other Toudou who apparently leads a group of people and joins the meeting. Until now we almost don't have any evidence whether he is loyal to Illuminati or using Illuminati. So I still regard him chaotic at this point.
What you describe sounds like Neutral to me.

Someone who wholeheartedly joins an organization is Loyal, someone who joins an organization to use it for their own benefit is Neutral, and someone who's Chaotic doesn't join the organization at all unless forced to.

It'd be hilarious if Yukio acts like he's evil but blocks the Illuminati from hurting noncombatants and others on his missions. It'd be like, dude, you suck at this whole evil thing.
By the way, this made me laugh so hard. That's something I'm anticipating. But the comedy of it only hit me when I read you say it.

(EDIT: Actually, the fact he said he's now evil for joining the Illuminati might confirm that he's Good instead of confirming that he's now Evil. In other words, instead of Yukio meaning "I'm evil. I want or at least don't mind doing evil things. That's why I want or at least don't mind joining the Illuminati to achieve my goals", Yukio could mean "I need to join the Illuminati to achieve my goals. And as much as I don't like how evil it is, I can't deny joining it makes me evil by association". It's not like a Good character never does bad things, but when they do they feel bad about it. It's just that now he might be about to do an awful lot of bad things and feel awfully bad about it... So that would change my theory on Yukio to him going from Loyal Good to Chaotic Good to Neutral Good, while feeling increasingly bad about himself for the increasing amount of bad things he's doing. I guess we'll know the answer when we see whether he has remorse or not about the evil things he's going to do. Though we already know he used to have remorse about even the everyday slightly bad things he would do. So it all depends on how much he has changed recently.)

Lucifer might seem like he's doing what he wants since he's at the head of his own organization, but he's bound as anyone else inside the organization by the rules of that organization, maybe even more so than anyone else. Also he seems very loyal to Satan, so you can also count that.

EDIT: Yeah, forget about my last point on Lucifer. Satan is just one guy, so no matter how loyal he is to him, that doesn't count. But I still stand by my point on organization leaders. Leaders have to follow rules more than anyone else.
We don't really have many clues about how Illuminati conduct their rules. Lucifer killed Gedoin, but only after Gedoin failed in fighting and conveniently be brought back, which means it was no where near his top priority, otherwise he should kill him before leaving. Whether Lucifer himself bound to any discipline is also unclear. That's much different from Hachiro, who clearly has a fixed mindset about contract and promise.
It's true we don't know a lot about the inner workings of the Illuminaty. But huge organizations only works under heavy rules and discipline. Lucifer is at the very top of it, and he's not a shadow figure, he's a visible one. If he would break his own organization's rules, that wouldn't be a good image for his followers. So far he also seems like someone who doesn't lie, so I don't think he's breaking the rules behind people's back.

For Hachirou, from what we've seen, and like you said, he might seems like a Loyal Evil. But we haven't seen him act with enough people, and we haven't seen him confronted with societal or organizational rules. A guy living alone in the middle of the woods could be Loyal or Chaotic and we would never be able to tell. His relations to Shura and her ancestors are an isolated case, so we can't use that and say that's how he would act with others in society. Maybe Shura and her ancestors and descendants are the only ones he would ever be loyal to, while killing anyone else who crosses his path, which would pretty much make him Chaotic.

I assume all Amaimon said in camp arc is to provoke Rin since Mephisto doesn't allow him to hurt them. He did release Shiemi immediately. Seems like Amaimon doesn't see human as valuable as we do but that's kind of understandable.
When you want to kill or hurt people for fun and don't value their lives because they're just mortals who will die soon enough anyway, but in the end you don't do it only because someone else told you not to, that still makes you evil.

You're not helping your case here.

I must admit though, you had my attention at "it was just to provoke Rin". And I'll give you it's somewhat hard to tell with his lack of expressions. But I doubt he didn't mean what he said and did.

I think the exwires are only put to Neutral Good because the current jailbreak? They don't seem ever do other disloyal thing. I would say Koneko can still be counted as Loyal Good because I believe he is just loyal to Bon.
They're already at their second jail break.

A Neutral Good always put good actions over law and I have no doubt that's the type of people Rin and the others are. That's the type most "heros" are.

As for Koneko being loyal to Ryuuji, again Ryuuji is just one guy.

And in case anyone wants to say Koneko is Loyal to the Myoudha, remember him and Ryuuji and Renzou ran away from it to go become exorcists. It's not like they're completely disloyal to the Myoudha, but they're not completely loyal neither; they're loyal when it benefits them and when they think it's the right thing to do. That's what makes them Neutral.

BTW, how can we classify Shiro? Or we just don't have enough information yet?
Yeah, it could change as we learn more on him.

For now I'd say he was a True Neutral in the flashbacks, that turned Neutral Good somewhere along the way to make the guy we saw at the start of the manga.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 14, 2018, 06:33:20 AM
Toudou is confusing, honestly. I thought he was chaotic, but his actions are much more consistent with Neutral Evil. He let Lucifer deal with Yukio despite his own personal desire to meet Yukio again, prioritizing the organization over his personal wants. Likewise, despite lecturing Yukio about family constraining him, Saburota has a relative working also in the Illuminati. That indicates that Toudou is flexible about his desires, willing to put them aside for a central goal.
Perhaps he can't capture Yukio by himself (that's what happened in IK arc) so he told Lucifer for his own benefit. Besides congratulating Lucifer, the only thing he did for the Illuminati we have seen so far is to help transport Hachiro (after Shima finished the more difficult part), unlike the other Toudou who apparently leads a group of people and joins the meeting. Until now we almost don't have any evidence whether he is loyal to Illuminati or using Illuminati. So I still regard him chaotic at this point.
What you describe sounds like Neutral to me.

Someone who wholeheartedly joins an organization is Loyal, someone who joins an organization to use it for their own benefit is Neutral, and someone who's Chaotic doesn't join the organization at all unless forced to.
But there is also his speech about how he once wanted to be like his father/brother but turns into hating them and becomes completely free. Also he randomly attacked Yukio when they meet in the middle of IK arc, and then tried to kill all of Juzou's team members because they are "useless and not interesting". Finally he said he can kill those Hachiro-searching team in chapter 80. There are some random madness in his action. Until now we don't know whether he has any second thoughts about Lucifer's "I'll use you if the material isn't enough". If he's OK with that then maybe he's just becoming demon eater for fun and doesn't really care about his own fate, so that's why I feel him like Chaotic.

It's pretty vague and I think that's also because we don't know enough about Illuminati.

Lucifer is at the very top of it, and he's not a shadow figure, he's a visible one. If he would break his own organization's rules, that wouldn't be a good image for his followers. So far he also seems like someone who doesn't lie, so I don't think he's breaking the rules behind people's back.
(Looking at Mephisto who is also a higher-up of a huge organization...)

About Lucifer seems doesn't lie, I would like to take Tamamo for example. I'm pretty sure Lucifer knows Tamamo's condition, but he said something like "Why do we have to suffer?" as if he can't stand people suffering.

I assume all Amaimon said in camp arc is to provoke Rin since Mephisto doesn't allow him to hurt them. He did release Shiemi immediately. Seems like Amaimon doesn't see human as valuable as we do but that's kind of understandable.
When you want to kill or hurt people for fun and don't value their lives because they're just mortals who will die soon enough anyway, but in the end you don't do it only because someone else told you not to, that still makes you evil.

You're not helping your case here.

I must admit though, you had my attention at "it was just to provoke Rin". And I'll give you it's somewhat hard to tell with his lack of expressions. But I doubt he didn't mean what he said and did.
Amaimon asked Rin "Isn't she important to you?" but Rin still didn't draw the sword, then Amaimon was like "OK then she is useless" and started saying that collecting eyeball thing. IMO that's already contradicting his previous "make her my bride" thing. And a simple explanation is all his action is to provoke Rin, and he just randomly said what ever evil ideas he came up with. If he intended to hurt them I think some of them would already severely injured.

If a human doesn't take human's life serious then that's evil, but he's a demon so I'm not so sure about it. He is not good either so I feel like he's Neutral. It looks like Amaimon somewhat similar to Gedoin that they both treat human like animals, despite Gedoin is actually a human and he already killed a lot.

in case anyone wants to say Koneko is Loyal to the Myoudha, remember him and Ryuuji and Renzou ran away from it to go become exorcists. It's not like they're completely disloyal to the Myoudha, but they're not completely loyal neither
I think their main mission is to protect Bon, so when they can't stop Bon, going to Tokyo with him is the correct action the Myoudha wants them to do. Only Bon is scolded for this action, while Yazou actually praised Koneko.

On the other hand, I wonder if Koneko has his own reason to become exorcist besides accompany with Bon


Her art that she posts gives us clues, so why not this (https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/aonoexorcist/images/6/68/Werewolf_Card_Game_Yukio_Okumura.png/revision/latest?cb=20160615010633). /shrug

This Yukio card has a demon motif going on. This is still an exorcist card, but it has the coloring of the major opponents
I just notice a subtle difference between the original card

https://twitter.com/katohhhhhh/status/680982280299360256

and the special card with horn

https://twitter.com/katohhhhhh/status/761589454058381312

Do you guys think both Rin and Yukio looks happier in the special card?
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 14, 2018, 08:38:05 AM
What you describe sounds like Neutral to me.

Someone who wholeheartedly joins an organization is Loyal, someone who joins an organization to use it for their own benefit is Neutral, and someone who's Chaotic doesn't join the organization at all unless forced to.

But there is also his speech about how he once wanted to be like his father/brother but turns into hating them and becomes completely free. Also he randomly attacked Yukio when they meet in the middle of IK arc, and then tried to kill all of Juzou's team members because they are "useless and not interesting". Finally he said he can kill those Hachiro-searching team in chapter 80. There are some random madness in his action. Until now we don't know whether he has any second thoughts about Lucifer's "I'll use you if the material isn't enough". If he's OK with that then maybe he's just becoming demon eater for fun and doesn't really care about his own fate, so that's why I feel him like Chaotic.

It's pretty vague and I think that's also because we don't know enough about Illuminati.

The problem is, he has no problem following rules when he needs to. Not only now in the Illuminati, but also before in the Order.

Chaotic characters never choose to follow the rules. They only follow rules when they're forced to or when what they're doing already happens to go along with the rules.

When you sometimes act Chaotic and sometimes act Loyal depending on what's more beneficial for you, that makes you Neutral.

Though I agree he enjoys being Chaotic more.

Lucifer is at the very top of it, and he's not a shadow figure, he's a visible one. If he would break his own organization's rules, that wouldn't be a good image for his followers. So far he also seems like someone who doesn't lie, so I don't think he's breaking the rules behind people's back.

(Looking at Mephisto who is also a higher-up of a huge organization...)

Mephisto is not at the top of the organization he's in, which makes a big difference. Plus, Mephisto has no qualms about lying and doing things behind people's back.

Also you were arguing for Lucifer being Chaotic. If you had said Neutral like I said Mephisto was, maybe I wouldn't have argued. But you said Chaotic, which is impossible imo.

About Lucifer seems doesn't lie, I would like to take Tamamo for example. I'm pretty sure Lucifer knows Tamamo's condition, but he said something like "Why do we have to suffer?" as if he can't stand people suffering.
I'm not 100% sure what you're saying, but...

I don't think there's contradiction between what he thinks and what he says. But there can be contradictions between what he thinks/says and what he does or lets happen. Which wouldn't make him a liar, but an hypocrite. Anyway.

Amaimon asked Rin "Isn't she important to you?" but Rin still didn't draw the sword, then Amaimon was like "OK then she is useless" and started saying that collecting eyeball thing. IMO that's already contradicting his previous "make her my bride" thing. And a simple explanation is all his action is to provoke Rin, and he just randomly said what ever evil ideas he came up with. If he intended to hurt them I think some of them would already severely injured.

Alright, I'll give you that. I can't know for sure whether it was only provocation or things he would do if he could.

If a human doesn't take human's life serious then that's evil, but he's a demon so I'm not so sure about it. He is not good either so I feel like he's Neutral. It looks like Amaimon somewhat similar to Gedoin that they both treat human like animals, despite Gedoin is actually a human and he already killed a lot.

Humans are animals.

Also, I say it's evil for humans to not value other animals lives and make them suffer more than necessary, so I'd say it's evil for demons do the same to humans. But maybe that's just me.

in case anyone wants to say Koneko is Loyal to the Myoudha, remember him and Ryuuji and Renzou ran away from it to go become exorcists. It's not like they're completely disloyal to the Myoudha, but they're not completely loyal neither

I think their main mission is to protect Bon, so when they can't stop Bon, going to Tokyo with him is the correct action the Myoudha wants them to do. Only Bon is scolded for this action, while Yazou actually praised Koneko.

On the other hand, I wonder if Koneko has his own reason to become exorcist besides accompany with Bon

Ok, I'll give you that one too. To be honest I don't pay much attention to Koneko, so I'm sure I missed a few things concerning him, including Yaozou praising him like you said. Maybe Koneko really is Loyal Good.

And that would be one more reason that explains why I dislike him actually.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 14, 2018, 03:54:37 PM
Also you were arguing for Lucifer being Chaotic.
I do think Lucifer is Neutral Evil. I don't believe he strictly follows some rules, but he doesn't seem act on impulse either, unlike Toudou. Or maybe that's because I don't see enough evidence whether Lucifer is Loyal or Chaotic, I tend to classify Lucifer as Neutral at this stage. Hopefully we can see how Illuminati working soon.

If a human doesn't take human's life serious then that's evil, but he's a demon so I'm not so sure about it. He is not good either so I feel like he's Neutral. It looks like Amaimon somewhat similar to Gedoin that they both treat human like animals, despite Gedoin is actually a human and he already killed a lot.

Humans are animals.

Also, I say it's evil for humans to not value other animals lives and make them suffer more than necessary, so I'd say it's evil for demons do the same to humans.
Yes, but until now I still feel Amaimon is more like those normal lab researchers who don't really do unnecessary killing. Though I think there's one thing I forget in my previous post about Gedoin that he actually hates human. So what he did was much more evil than Amaimon, who just feels indifference about human.

Anyway, with the reveal in this chapter we may soon know the true intention of Amaimon and Mephisto

Maybe Koneko really is Loyal Good.

And that would be one more reason that explains why I dislike him actually.
Actually I don't really mean it's anything good that Koneko is more Loyal. I agree with you that Neutral Good is the type most "heros" are. And I'm not sure if Koneko ever walked out of his own "side character" self image
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 14, 2018, 06:34:14 PM
Also you were arguing for Lucifer being Chaotic.
I do think Lucifer is Neutral Evil.
You do? Sorry, I must have mixed it up in my head with what you said about Toudou.

For now I still believe he's more Loyal, but I might be proven wrong eventually.

I still feel Amaimon is more like those normal lab researchers who don't really do unnecessary killing.
He's not researching much though. He just seems to be killing time.

Actually I don't really mean it's anything good that Koneko is more Loyal.
Yeah, it's alright, I never said you did.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 14, 2018, 10:54:17 PM
Speaking of something that we haven't talked about since the shit hit the fan... I wonder when Lightning's coming back?

After all, he got arrested and went "I hope nothing unexpected happens". Aaaaaand then literally everything went to crap.

Wonder what Lightning will have to say about all this. And what his deal with Renzou was. I definitely think the Sylph Bell is off Renzou's neck. But what did Renzou agree to do for it...

Also you were arguing for Lucifer being Chaotic.
I do think Lucifer is Neutral Evil.
You do? Sorry, I must have mixed it up in my head with what you said about Toudou.

For now I still believe he's more Loyal, but I might be proven wrong eventually.

I'm sure that Lucifer is Lawful on the Lawful-Neutral-Chaotic axis. Unlike Yukio and Saburota who are willing to bend rules to achieve their goals, Lucy is insistent on enforcing the rules of his organization, which is consistent with his bizarre sense of fairness. Remember, he said "my subordinates' faults are my faults, there is no need to blame yourself" before he personally executed Gedouin. He didn't have to do that and it put his body at risk, but he did it anyways. If he only cared for his hide, he would've let Homare take care of it. Methinks that attitude is what inspires loyalty in his subordinates. Because Lucifer is so idealistic, his loyal subordinates are willing to take on uglier responsibilities so he doesn't dirty his hands. At least, that's what I got from how Gedouin, Saburota, and Homare deal with Lucy.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 15, 2018, 04:03:25 PM
I wonder when Lightning's coming back?

After all, he got arrested and went "I hope nothing unexpected happens". Aaaaaand then literally everything went to crap.
  • There was a failed assassination attempt on Mephisto's life.
  • The Gehenna Gate has opened and partially merged with Assiah.
  • The public is learning the existence of demons.
  • Koumaken was broken, returning Rin's demon heart to his chest, possibly making him uncontrollable.
  • Yukio betrayed the Order and his friends, and defected to the Illuminati.
  • Satan was revealed to be watching Assiah through Yukio's left eye.

Wonder what Lightning will have to say about all this. And what his deal with Renzou was.
This beyond/end of snow arc starts with Lightning taking action, so I bet at the end of this arc we'll see Lightning and his action again. And I just remember Lightning is curious about Kurikara but he can't research it now. Maybe he'll help them repair it.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 15, 2018, 09:31:54 PM
More than Lightning's plan I'm curious to see what Shura's reaction will be when she'll find out about all this mess...
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 15, 2018, 10:50:52 PM
After her first reaction, which is sure to be "what the FUCK just happened, RIN didn't I TELL YOU to LAY LOW!"... followed by doing her best to protect Rin, and anger towards Yukio for causing this situation...

I think it'll hit Shura hard. She's tried to vouch for Yukio even as he refused to say anything. But she won't do that after hearing how Yukio turned against Rin. Unlike the others, she saw what happened between the twins in Aomori. I wonder if she'll regret not talking to Rin about what Yukio did then. Also, Shiro asked her to watch over Yukio when he started cram school. It wasn't a promise, but I've always wondered if that's been in her mind when she's tried to help Yukio before. I wonder if we'll see a callback to that.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: SKL on January 15, 2018, 11:03:13 PM
Speaking of something that we haven't talked about since the shit hit the fan... I wonder when Lightning's coming back?

After all, he got arrested and went "I hope nothing unexpected happens". Aaaaaand then literally everything went to crap.
  • There was a failed assassination attempt on Mephisto's life.
Bets on it leading back to the Illuminati...after all, everything always does

Quote
  • The Gehenna Gate has opened and partially merged with Assiah.
One of the the things Im most curious about. 2 effects we will have a pretty good idea of:
1. Will make most or all Assiah residents able to see demons
2. Correlated to 1, it will power- up demons as their power or 'concept' is strengthened by the Assiah perception of them

Other long term effects I imagine are shifts in a metaphysical plane. Why do beings of Gehenna have all the 'power'...I mean laws of physics wise...where does all the energy come from?, while Assiah beings have all the physical matter? I understand the Assiah beings have an indirect way to empower Gehenna through the 'tulpa' effect, but what will happen now that the lines are blurred. Will Lucifer's words of 'no difference between humans and demons' start to become actuality? Were the two separate mirror worlds truly once one plane? What was that like, etc?

Quote
  • The public is learning the existence of demons.

Also fascinating. I believed I talked about this somewhere else. Too lazy to look for it right now. Basically the gist is the True Cross, Illuminati, and other demon-related organizations will become from once a secret/disguised organization to the forefront of the public and the 'leaders' that will guide the headless chickens (normal people) through this new development/tragedy.

Quote
  • Koumaken was broken, returning Rin's demon heart to his chest, possibly making him uncontrollable.
The key will be used to hide it perhaps. Tatsuma and/or Lightning will help fix the sword. Perhaps the heart won't be 'sealed' inside the sword anymore. After better control training, it may come to the point where Rin has full control of where his heart goes, but chooses to use the sword like a conduit or something which will still help him.
He was necrotizing and in danger of going fulls berserk mode at the end of the chapter. We still don't know if he'll faint, transform more, and/or go on a full rampage next chap.

Quote
  • Yukio betrayed the Order and his friends, and defected to the Illuminati.
It's difficult for me to say Yukio 'betrayed' the Order. I mean they already had him locked up for the little bit of Satan power he showed. What would have happened to Yukio once they found Satan there? Let him go on parole? No. The were going to execute him for sure, because of how directly linked to Satan he was even more so than Rin. That's why I said the Order betrayed him first or were set to at least.

The ones Yukio truly betrayed were his brother and his companions. Rin knew the only option to save Yukio was to get him out of there. If Yukio ran away with Rin, then he wouldn't have betrayed his companions and their trust that he had trust in them. Since he coldly left them in the dust, I consider that an act of betrayal of trust.

Quote
  • Satan was revealed to be watching Assiah through Yukio's left eye.
Yeah..I could totally see them marching to Mephisto for some 'splaining to do. Since there is probably no longer any need for that angle of secrecy anymore, he'll probably end of telling of the blue night and the birth at this point, and we might finally get a long awaited flashback. Perhaps Lucifer will be explaining to Yukio around the same time or something...though I find it hard to believe Lucifer would know as much as Mephisto about what went down.

Quote
Wonder what Lightning will have to say about all this. And what his deal with Renzou was. I definitely think the Sylph Bell is off Renzou's neck. But what did Renzou agree to do for it...

Hmm that favor Renzou did or will do is still a big mystery. I thought Lightning might want to use the bell to locate the Illuminati base. Though maybe he did the favor already and the bell is off. I wonder if Lightning can somehow use Yukio's Morinas Contract to locate the base now...

 
More than Lightning's plan I'm curious to see what Shura's reaction will be when she'll find out about all this mess...


Shura will hear about Yukio's face-heel-turn and be like, Called it! 'I saw something like this happening, should have warned Rin that time'. She'll naturally be angry at Yukio, but also worried for him since he's still a kid in dangerous waters and she in the 'chaperone'/'older sister' role.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: justicecadet on January 16, 2018, 03:01:19 AM
Hey what’s up.
I’m just here to scream and shout with joy about finally seeing more of the illuminati from the inside. And Toudou Homare? Hmm but I still wonder what her exact relation is to Toudou Saburouto. Will we have to call them by first names now? Can I call him Toudou sensei again? <3 I can’t wait for Shima, Toudou, Lucy and Yukio adventures. Kind of unexpected but welcome Satan only has one eyeball and hasn’t fully hijacked Yukio’s body. 

(busy life stuff can’t read or write much on the forum atm. also as much as i like reading both official jp and eng chapters most raw sites don’t load well for me so it’s better to wait for the full chapter in viz).
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 21, 2018, 04:31:55 PM
Just notice one thing ... It seems like Shima was unconscious when the sword breaks and Satan talks ...

So, is he really aware what happened? Or does he just assume Yukio somehow blocked Rin's attack and Rin gives up stopping them?

sound like... he ACTUALLY worries about Rin?
I felt he’s actually worrying about Rain when the raw is out. He can't anticipate this happened anyway.

how come he now gives two shets about how what happened is gonna affect the brothers' relationship?
He’s not talking about the brothers' relationship. It’s about you can't regret now = do you have the determination?
So ... maybe he is talking about that Rin looks pretty sad, and Yukio shoot Rin ... things before he unconscious

"Well I didn't do much, he mostly just self-destructed"

I'm sorry but I can't stop laughing, Renzou really knows how to piss people off.
Reconsider this ...  I don't think there's any reason he intends to mock Yukio. He actually becomes unsettled with Yukio's glare. I guess that's what he planned to tell his boss after things done, but he just forgets Yukio is also there.

So ... does that mean he doesn't want to get reward for this mission? Why?
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 22, 2018, 01:44:16 AM
Reconsider this ...  I don't think there's any reason he intends to mock Yukio. He actually becomes unsettled with Yukio's glare. I guess that's what he planned to tell his boss after things done, but he just forgets Yukio is also there.
Or maybe it really was a jab at Yukio, but he forgot Yukio wasn't in a mood to take jokes.

So ... does that mean he doesn't want to get reward for this mission? Why?
That's only modesty. Like in Japan during interviews when the interviewer asks the interviewee questions about what's written in his resume, the interviewee must (1) state that the information is true and (2) belittle his accomplishments. Or, whenever someone you're not familiar with, at work or at school or anywhere, compliments you on anything, the generic answer is not "thank you" but "not at all"/"いいえ".
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: earthforge on January 22, 2018, 05:36:45 PM
Just notice one thing ... It seems like Shima was unconscious when the sword breaks and Satan talks ...

So, is he really aware what happened? Or does he just assume Yukio somehow blocked Rin's attack and Rin gives up stopping them?

I don't think Shima's unconscious. He was probably just playing dead since Rin and Yukio are pretty freakin' scary. Which is why Yukio says "get up", because he isn't buying Shima's "I'm totally knocked out" routine.

still giggling at "quick, Shima, take me"

Reconsider this ...  I don't think there's any reason he intends to mock Yukio. He actually becomes unsettled with Yukio's glare. I guess that's what he planned to tell his boss after things done, but he just forgets Yukio is also there.
Or maybe it really was a jab at Yukio, but he forgot Yukio wasn't in a mood to take jokes.

I think it was Renzou trying to cope with what had just happened. He's clearly worried about Rin. Humor is his way of handling worry and nervousness. It's not unlike his "you're finally getting the look right" comment from chapter 93.

That's only modesty. Like in Japan during interviews when the interviewer asks the interviewee questions about what's written in his resume, the interviewee must (1) state that the information is true and (2) belittle his accomplishments. Or, whenever someone you're not familiar with, at work or at school or anywhere, compliments you on anything, the generic answer is not "thank you" but "not at all"/"いいえ".

Well. I just realized why my research mentor is so popular in Japan. XD (He often talks down his accomplishments, which completely frustrates the Americans and Europeans but not the Japanese researchers.)
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Cloelia on January 22, 2018, 07:21:33 PM
still giggling at "quick, Shima, take me"

Ha ha ha... I wonder how many YukiShi(ma) shippers are born thanks(?) to that mistranslation.

Edit: W-wait, hold on! Actually... it's Yukio... who asked Shima to... um... So, actually, it's Shi... ShiYu-

...

VIZ!!! WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE?!
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: tandem on January 23, 2018, 11:01:07 AM
Just notice one thing ... It seems like Shima was unconscious when the sword breaks and Satan talks ...

So, is he really aware what happened? Or does he just assume Yukio somehow blocked Rin's attack and Rin gives up stopping them?

I don't think Shima's unconscious. He was probably just playing dead since Rin and Yukio are pretty freakin' scary. Which is why Yukio says "get up", because he isn't buying Shima's "I'm totally knocked out" routine.
I had considered the possibility he is pretending dead, but I think in that case he should lie on his stomach. Since he actually lies on his side, he can't open his eyes when pretending dead. (And if he's really so scared that he pretended dead and closed his eyes the whole time, then he probably still doesn't know what happened unless he heard what Satan said)

Reconsider this ...  I don't think there's any reason he intends to mock Yukio. He actually becomes unsettled with Yukio's glare. I guess that's what he planned to tell his boss after things done, but he just forgets Yukio is also there.
Or maybe it really was a jab at Yukio, but he forgot Yukio wasn't in a mood to take jokes.

I think it was Renzou trying to cope with what had just happened. He's clearly worried about Rin. Humor is his way of handling worry and nervousness. It's not unlike his "you're finally getting the look right" comment from chapter 93.
So ... does that mean he doesn't want to get reward for this mission? Why?
That's only modesty. Like in Japan during interviews when the interviewer asks the interviewee questions about what's written in his resume, the interviewee must (1) state that the information is true and (2) belittle his accomplishments. Or, whenever someone you're not familiar with, at work or at school or anywhere, compliments you on anything, the generic answer is not "thank you" but "not at all"/"いいえ".
If he just tried to mock Yukio or to say something so things won't look too serious, I think it's more reasonable to say it on the helicopter when he is not talking to another people, which is more similar to the situation in chapter 93. That's not something good to say when reporting to his boss.

Maybe it's being humble, but I feel it's a little too much. I mean, it will be difficult to take credit after you stated your target finished most part on his own. He could just make his statement vague

still giggling at "quick, Shima, take me"

Ha ha ha... I wonder how many YukiShi(ma) shippers are born thanks(?) to that mistranslation.

Edit: W-wait, hold on! Actually... it's Yukio... who asked Shima to... um... So, actually, it's Shi... ShiYu-

...

VIZ!!! WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE?!
I believe it's been a semi-popular ship (at least in Japan)
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: chinonamida on January 24, 2018, 10:44:18 PM
So ... does that mean he doesn't want to get reward for this mission? Why?
That's only modesty. Like in Japan during interviews when the interviewer asks the interviewee questions about what's written in his resume, the interviewee must (1) state that the information is true and (2) belittle his accomplishments. Or, whenever someone you're not familiar with, at work or at school or anywhere, compliments you on anything, the generic answer is not "thank you" but "not at all"/"いいえ".
Maybe it's being humble, but I feel it's a little too much. I mean, it will be difficult to take credit after you stated your target finished most part on his own. He could just make his statement vague
In Japan, you're never supposed to take credit for anything. Because of the "team mentality". Every time something is accomplished, it's never entirely due to one person's efforts. Even a student's grades is in part due to their teacher's teachings.
In Japanese companies, workers are always made to work in teams, or at the very least in pairs. So when the work is well done, no one's taking credit for it, it's the team. And likewise, whenever the job is not well done, no one takes the blame for it, it's the team again. And even if for some reasons (usually public outrage) some one has to take the blame, it will be the immediate superior (or someone even higher) who will take it, even if it's not his fault at all.
So to get a raise, you can only wait and hope the bosses notice your good work.
You can't go up to them and say "This is what I did, this is how I did it, this is how much work I'm putting in, therefore I deserve a raise." If you do that, you might not get the raise that you might have gotten if you stayed humble.
And anyway, they just have to look at whether the work is well done. You can't always get the work well done out of luck. So when they see the work is well done and tell you "well done", then you generically stay humble and say "not at all" or anything of the sort, they don't think "oh, so he didn't do anything afterall", they know you're most likely just being humble and so they keep thinking you've done well.
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: kolejny.trup on January 25, 2018, 12:56:34 AM
 And now we can ask Lightning, what the hell he has done. I wonder what was his intention when he gave S13 data to Yukio, making him go totally crazy. Why does he sit in prison (don't you think he might find a way to get out of it?) and calmly watches the world going totally crazy. Why TCO wouldn't let him out just to be more efficient with fighting against demons during so big crisis. I even dare to say, he might beat up Dragulescu to go to jail and have alibi for doing nothing. He is demon fanatic, so it would be awesome for him to have world with humans and demons coexisting. As I remember, one of spies is in higher-ups. True Cross Order gave him access to some very delicate data. Doesn't it look fishy? (Mefisto also cares mostly for a good show. Cannot judge)

 I wonder, how magically this is gonna end. All this mess. I mean, now we are at the point, where everything that can go wrong, goes wrong. And it's good move, because we start doubting more and more. Who's on the right site? Does the right site really exist? If I was in, I'd like to stay out of war and look at it with truly objective eye.

The most funny way to end this series would be to kill all good people and finish with Satan dream come true ;)
Title: Re: Chapter 97 RAW
Post by: Stella96 on January 25, 2018, 02:17:57 PM
He is demon fanatic, so it would be awesome for him to have world with humans and demons coexisting. As I remember, one of spies is in higher-ups. True Cross Order gave him access to some very delicate data. Doesn't it look fishy? (Mefisto also cares mostly for a good show. Cannot judge)

Lightning is the one responsible for finding the spy... It would be funny if finally  he's the spy xD
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