The Blue Knight

Blue Exorcist => Blue Exorcist (Manga) => Topic started by: NeeNee on March 18, 2013, 12:01:04 AM

Title: True forms of demons
Post by: NeeNee on March 18, 2013, 12:01:04 AM
This post inspired me to make a new topic:

^ I can't wait to see [Amainmon's] completely unsealed self - I reckon we're in for a dragon or something simmilar. Something awesomely lizardy! I wonder what Mephisto's is like . . . a giant dog? If Rin ever became truly unsealed/demonfied, I guess he'd just be pure flame

I do wonder what they are like. I believe we already saw a pic somewhere of what people thought might be Satan's true form... but nothing on Mephisto. I can't really imagine what he'd look like, but a lizard seems kind of unfitting.

For Rin, I believe he'd look more like he does when he's loosing himself, with big teeth and long nails. Those things aren't part of his 'normal' released form, but they come out when the power of his flames takes over. I imagine it'd get worse when he's actually in Gehenna.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Paradox on March 18, 2013, 12:17:21 PM
I believe we already saw a pic somewhere of what people thought might be Satan's true form...
Did you mean this?
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/2.html (http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/2.html)
That...what is that? A cow? Horse?

And I found this scene:
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v08/c031/3.html (http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v08/c031/3.html)
According to Shura, this form is the true form of the Impure King. Isn't that odd? A full demon in Assiah.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Wikkelsoee on March 18, 2013, 03:47:52 PM
^ That might have been why Shura was so suprised.
That makes me think. Maybe demons can't show their true form when they are possessing a human? I mean, Coal Tar are possessing fungi, but they seem rather creature-like anyway, but if someone like Amaimon try to transform he just hurts his host.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: GolPhee on March 18, 2013, 06:02:12 PM
It's one of the questions I'm hoping will be answered - Mephisto certainly implied that we'l be getting a more detailed explanation of how humans and demons/ Assiah and Gehenna work in this universe. As previously mentioned, we've seen the true forms of demons even though the series itself says that they can't have one outside of Gehenna.

That pic on Satan is certainly interesting. We've sort of been shown Satan here: http://www.mangapanda.com/ao-no-exorcist/39/33 although personally I can't tell whether the author is breaking the fourth wall and censoring it from the reader, or if Mephisto himself is censoring Satan from Rin.

Also, whilst we've seen Rin get pretty crazy, something tells me we still haven't seen everything he's got demon-form-wise. Since he's got control of his flames and can fight with his sword whenever he feels like it even though we're not even halfway through the series he must have further abilities to develop, or else what's he going to spend the rest of the series doing? Studying?
Not to mention he'll need more power than what he currently has to stand a hope in hell of beating Satan, given that an only semi-transformed Amaimon owned him.

Meh. Brain diarrhea  :-X
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Anya on March 18, 2013, 08:05:32 PM
That pic on Satan is certainly interesting. We've sort of been shown Satan here: http://www.mangapanda.com/ao-no-exorcist/39/33 although personally I can't tell whether the author is breaking the fourth wall and censoring it from the reader, or if Mephisto himself is censoring Satan from Rin.
The censored person is mincemeat-ed Rin.

Rin doesn't have that good control over his flames, he can only not burn everything to ashes if he really concentrates. He can't use too much power without help of other demon (Ucchusma) and when he does, he either goes berserk or passes out later. He still can't burn candles. Amaimon can beat him. He still discovers additional demon powers like sensing demons or exploding them from the inside. Plus, there's still a lot of exorcist stuff to learn if he wants to become a paladin.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: GolPhee on March 18, 2013, 09:04:10 PM
The censored person is mincemeat-ed Rin.

Geez I suck at interpreting manga. >.< Thanks for clearing that up

Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: NeeNee on March 18, 2013, 09:19:19 PM
I believe we already saw a pic somewhere of what people thought might be Satan's true form...
Did you mean this?
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/2.html (http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/2.html)
That...what is that? A cow? Horse?
I have no idea, but it's got big claws and looks scary. That's good enough to make it the-most-promising-picture-so-far in my eyes.

Quote
And I found this scene:
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v08/c031/3.html (http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v08/c031/3.html)
According to Shura, this form is the true form of the Impure King. Isn't that odd? A full demon in Assiah.
Maybe 'true form' generally refers to the most evolved form in Assiah? I don't think humans are confronted with Gehennian forms very often, so they might just have a different vocabulary than Satan.

Don't forget, Rin has a whole shopping list of human and demon forms, so I doubt anyone has bothered to invent names for all of them. When talking about his 'demon form' though, people usually mean his Assiah full-demon form. I don't think the existence of a (potential) Gehenna full-demon form is common knowledge.

I once wrote a list of them on MF...

Quote from: http://forums.mangafox.me/threads/301429-Future-Chapter-Discussion-(Speculation)?p=8407632&viewfull=1#post8407632
- sealed/normal human form (powers sealed by KK): not quite as human as you'd think, given that he could lift a car at age 10-12. Still, good enough to fool almost everyone including himself.
- half-awakened human form (KK's control slipping): still human-looking, but can see demons. Seems to have occured spontaneously after Rin reached a certain age.
- full-awakened human form (KK's control slipping more): still human-looking, but can see demons & cast blue flames. Awakened by mortal danger.
- sealed/normal half-demon form (seal broken, but KK sheated): half-human looking, with full tail, but relatively unnoticeable ears and fangs. Awakened by drawing KK for the first time.
- released half-demon / Assiah full-demon form (KK unsheated): quite demon looking, with tail, long airs and fangs. Archieved by drawing KK (stays as long as the sword is unsheated).
- Gehenna full-demon form? (in Gehenna): Satan suggested that Rin would take on another form upon moving to Gehanna. However, we haven't seen it yet, nor do we have any confirmation that it exists.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Paradox on March 19, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
Is a full-demon form (Gehenna mod) even possible? Doesn't it mean Rin would have to leave (or destroy?) his body like Mephisto and Amaimon? Or will it be just a transformation?
I'm really exciting when they will be going to Gehenna. What will happen to Rin (half-demon)? To Yukio (almost half-demon)? To an ordinary person (for example Shiemy)? Questions upon questions.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: NeeNee on March 19, 2013, 08:08:41 PM
^ Good questions. At this point, we don't even know if demons have a real body, so it's hard to say anything about it. I hope Kazue will tell us more soon.

I adapted the list of demon forms for Yukio:
Quote
- sealed/normal human form (powers sealed by KK): not quite as human as you'd think, given that he could lift a car at age 10-12. Still, good enough to fool almost everyone including himself.
- half-awakened human form (KK's control slipping): still human-looking, but can see demons. Seems to have occured spontaneously after Rin reached a certain age been present since birth or shortly after.
- full-awakened human form (KK's control slipping more): still human-looking, but can see demons & cast blue flames has blue flames in his eyes. Awakened by mortal danger.
- sealed/normal half-demon form? (seal broken, but KK sheated): half-human looking, with full tail, but relatively unnoticeable ears and fangs. Awakened by drawing KK for the first time.
- released half-demon / Assiah full-demon form? (powers not sheated by KK): quite demon looking, with tail, long airs and fangs. Archieved by drawing KK (stays as long as the sword is unsheated).
- Gehenna full-demon form? (in Gehenna): Satan suggested that Rin would take on another form upon moving to Gehenna. However, we haven't seen it yet, nor have we had any confirmation that it exists.
If we assume he was a demon from the start, it's possible that seeing demons came with the blood and that Shiro wrongly assumed it was the result of a mashou. Also, since he doesn't have a seal (as far as we know), I guess he won't be able to go back and forth between normal and activated half-demon like Rin does.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: NeeNee on July 14, 2013, 10:32:31 PM
New info: on the last page of volume 10, Amaimon says he's been using this body (the human one) for a 1000 years.

... Which doesn't make much sense, honestly, because his demon profile in volume 3 mentioned that he is currently occupying the body of a human man and acclimating to the world of Assiah. So either Assiah takes a mighty long time getting used to, or Kazue forgot what she wrote earlier.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: themoonlandian on July 14, 2013, 10:36:25 PM
I wonder...can demons leave the body they are hosting and come back to it...?
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: NeeNee on July 14, 2013, 10:39:38 PM
I would like to know how they can make the things last for centuries in the first place.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: themoonlandian on July 14, 2013, 10:43:29 PM
True, indeed. Especially with someone like Amaimon, or Mephisto - if Satan can barely last then wouldn't that mean the body they are hosting will eventually begin to be worn down? ._.
Unless for the princes their powers allow them to make the bodies last longer....
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Wikkelsoee on July 15, 2013, 12:53:38 AM
Perhaps the human body just stops aging when a demon possesses it. Demons can live longer than humans, so maybe that has something to do with it?
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: themoonlandian on July 15, 2013, 12:56:42 AM
Possibly, but why would Satan be the only one (that we know of anyways) who can't stay in Assiah in a possessed body for very long?
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: chinonamida on July 15, 2013, 03:43:21 AM
^its easy. just dont see the body regeneration and body destruction at both end of the same spectrum.

lest say, a demon possessing a body gives it regeneration abilities.
then lets say, a demon possessing a body too weak for him destroys it.

it means when a demon possesses a weak body, it both gives it regeneration abilities and destroys it.

if we say the destruction is greater than the regeneration then it simply gets destroyed.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: themoonlandian on July 15, 2013, 03:50:27 AM
Ah okay! ^^

Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: NeeNee on July 15, 2013, 04:39:25 PM
It does explain Shura recognising Amaimon so fast. I was wondering how she could tell it was him if he just got himself a new body, but if he's been using it for a millennium, his face is probably plastered all over the textbooks.

Which does make it weird that Rin didn't know who he was. But then again, we all know Rin is an idiot. Or perhaps they only learn that stuff in the second semester or something.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Paradox on July 15, 2013, 06:55:38 PM
^ Izumo was the only student who recognised Amaimon as a demon king though. And she knew how dangerous the situation was. Perhaps she has paid attention in class or she just knows it from somewhere. I suppose the students learn about the types of demons in the first semester. It's an important topic anyway.

But I'm surprised his body is that old.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: NeeNee on July 15, 2013, 08:32:50 PM
^ She knew Amaimon was a Demon King, but she only recognised his name, not his face. Shura however was able to identify him on sight, so she must have known what he looked like.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: chinonamida on July 16, 2013, 01:00:46 AM
I believe we already saw a pic somewhere of what people thought might be Satan's true form...
Did you mean this?
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/2.html (http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/2.html)
That...what is that? A cow? Horse?

looks like the body of a human, the head and legs of a ram, bat wings and the tail is a snake/fish/dragon.
I dont know.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: themoonlandian on July 16, 2013, 01:03:38 AM
I believe we already saw a pic somewhere of what people thought might be Satan's true form...
Did you mean this?
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/2.html (http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/2.html)
That...what is that? A cow? Horse?

looks like the body of a human, the head and legs of a ram, bat wings and the tail is a snake/fish/dragon.
I dont know.


Makes me think of this guy:
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: sushueren on July 16, 2013, 11:25:36 AM
Ram's horns suggest that this demon is Astaroth.

http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/27.html

The serpent tail is also representative of the same demon.  Highly doubt that's Satan's form.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Wikkelsoee on July 16, 2013, 11:30:48 AM
^ Except the demon possessing that boy in chapter 1 wasn't Astaroth ^^;
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: sushueren on July 16, 2013, 11:38:43 AM
^^Partially correct anyhows. The manga never explicitly said who the demon possessing Shiratori was although in the anime he does introduce himself as Astaroth.   Still I'm pretty sure that's not Satan in the chapter 1 illustration. :D
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: themoonlandian on July 16, 2013, 04:32:14 PM
It was probably a scrapped idea from the pilot.
Still makes you wonder who/what it was though XD
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: chinonamida on July 16, 2013, 05:00:10 PM
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/2.html
People thought it was satan because he seems to be preying on shiro and his snake tail's tongue seems to be blue fire.

http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/27.html
that guy didnt even recognise shiro and was killed on the spot. that isnt terribly menacing.

that demon might have been satans underling. thats why he looks alike.


where did you read ram's horn and snake's tail are astaroth characteristics. the bestiary?
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Paradox on July 16, 2013, 05:40:49 PM
As for Shiratori, I think his demon belongs to Astaroth because of the Coal Tar. And has anyone noticed as well that Shiratori is the only one with a fluffy tail (except Rin)?
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: chinonamida on July 16, 2013, 06:06:00 PM
As for Shiratori, I think his demon belongs to Astaroth because of the Coal Tar.
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/31.html
shiro said coal tar gather around humans with a dark nature. maybe theres nothing more to it.

Quote
And has anyone noticed as well that Shiratori is the only one with a fluffy tail (except Rin)?
thats actually an other reason why I think that demon was satan's underling. even though its meek.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Paradox on July 17, 2013, 08:57:06 AM
^ Okay, that could be the reason why Shiratori's demon was looking for Rin. Maybe it's a scout.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: NeeNee on July 17, 2013, 09:24:05 AM
^ He literally said he had been searching for Rin for a long time and that Satan was waiting for them, so I thought that was a given.

http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c001/26.html
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: chinonamida on July 17, 2013, 10:23:43 PM
now I think about it.
the demon with ram's horns and a snake tail is on that crest.
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v01/c002/1.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v03/c010/6.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v03/c010/7.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/ao_no_exorcist/v04/c014/32.html

but theres another one with goat's horns. . . maybe satan are twins. no Im just kidding.

haha and if you fusion them together it would make a jacob sheep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_%28sheep%29).


edit: seriously. I wonder why the order would have satan on their crest. maybe its because they want to always be remembered of their enemy. . . or maybe none of them know what satan looks like, and mephisto made this crest centuries ago.


by the way, do you know that on jump square official website, they say in mephisto's description that he is the second most influential person in gehenna.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: MetallicArcher on July 17, 2013, 11:13:05 PM

edit: seriously. I wonder why the order would have satan on their crest. maybe its because they want to always be remembered of their enemy. . . or maybe none of them know what satan looks like, and mephisto made this crest centuries ago.

Presenting demonic figures is not uncommon in Catholicism, Kazue probably got her inspiration from Gotic Cathedrals which are often decorated with gargoyles on their entries and windows. The gargoyles are placed outside the cathedrals to represent how the devil and his forces cannot make their way into God's territory.

If you pay attention to the Academy's emblem:

(http://etoyhobbies.com/images/Bag11669_1.jpg)

You will notice the gargoyles are pushing/holding the frame which surrounds the order's symbol and Buda Tara' sacred seed, so it's symbolism is not any different than when they are represented as statues outside cathedrals (just that in this case is kind of ironical because they have demons working for them and in high ranks nothing the least).
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Wikkelsoee on July 17, 2013, 11:18:22 PM
I somtimes get amazed at how many symbols Kazue has used in all those crests. We probably haven't even found them all yet.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: chinonamida on July 17, 2013, 11:28:43 PM
Presenting demonic figures is not uncommon in Catholicism, Kazue probably got her inspiration from Gotic Cathedrals which are often decorated with gargoyles on their entries and windows. The gargoyles are placed outside the cathedrals to represent how the devil and his forces cannot make their way into God's territory.

If you pay attention to the Academy's emblem
Quote
You will notice the gargoyles are pushing/holding the frame which surrounds the order's symbol and Buda Tara' sacred seed, so it's symbolism is not any different than when they are represented as statues outside cathedrals (just that in this case is kind of ironical because they have demons working for them and in high ranks nothing the least).
that makes a lot of sense.

though its not the academy's emblem. looks more like the order's emblem.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: NeeNee on July 18, 2013, 12:32:06 AM
I somtimes get amazed at how many symbols Kazue has used in all those crests. We probably haven't even found them all yet.

Aren't those all the same?

I don't really see the difference.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Wikkelsoee on July 18, 2013, 11:12:55 AM
^ I just mean there's so many small details in the story we haven't even noticed. Like Amaimon burning his hand on Shiemi. To tell the truth, I hadn't even noticed that crest Chino mentioned.

But it didn't really come out right the first time. Sorry
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Paradox on July 18, 2013, 02:26:20 PM
I'd like to mention casually that the emplem is also in the prequel:
http://mangafox.me/manga/the_miyama_uguisu_mansion_incident/v01/c001/8.html (http://mangafox.me/manga/the_miyama_uguisu_mansion_incident/v01/c001/8.html)
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Madow on May 29, 2016, 11:06:23 AM
Is a full-demon form (Gehenna mod) even possible? Doesn't it mean Rin would have to leave (or destroy?) his body like Mephisto and Amaimon? Or will it be just a transformation?
I'm really exciting when they will be going to Gehenna. What will happen to Rin (half-demon)? To Yukio (almost half-demon)? To an ordinary person (for example Shiemy)? Questions upon questions.

I've been thinking for a while since Lightning is really, REALLY interested in toying with Kurikara. The only thing that makes it different from other demon swords is that it houses a demon heart. I have a feeling Lightning is going to extract Rin's heart from the sword because him and Mephisto seem to the same kind of person but with different agenda's. Lewin might think that there's still some sort of seal on the sword, possibly because Mephisto doesn't want Rin to grow so strong so quickly due to him loving toying with people. Rin is a shonen protaginist after-all, he's bound to have some sort of power up when we're nearly 100 chapters in.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Vine on May 29, 2016, 04:01:51 PM
I've been thinking for a while since Lightning is really, REALLY interested in toying with Kurikara. The only thing that makes it different from other demon swords is that it houses a demon heart. I have a feeling Lightning is going to extract Rin's heart from the sword because him and Mephisto seem to the same kind of person but with different agenda's. Lewin might think that there's still some sort of seal on the sword, possibly because Mephisto doesn't want Rin to grow so strong so quickly due to him loving toying with people. Rin is a shonen protaginist after-all, he's bound to have some sort of power up when we're nearly 100 chapters in.
this is the reason i get on edge whenever lightning and rin interact. like, lightning obviously really wants to know how the sword works, and it gives me this feeling of dread. in my mind, lightning sees rin as a demon first and foremost, and what lightning likes to do with demons is befriend them for the sake of TAMING them. so i dunno, as a master tamer, what better goal is there than to tame the son of satan. but most of that is just speculation and feelings.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Madow on May 29, 2016, 08:29:40 PM
I seriously doubt Lightning could tame Rin. Hell, after bossing him about Rin decked him in the face, how is he gonna stand being ordered in combat like an other demon? Plus, he hates being grouped in with demons
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: NeeNee on May 29, 2016, 09:08:43 PM
^ That's normal, because he isn't a demon. He isn't under any contract, so if they want to order him around, they'll have to do is as an exorcist and not as a demon.

Which won't made that much of a difference in practice, but I suppose if feels very different for Rin.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Madow on June 01, 2016, 10:09:56 PM
Yeah, Rin is self-acting usually taking control of the situation but of course not in the way the Order wants it to happen.

Another thing I remembered is Bon's father talking about that if anything goes wrong with the sword he should take it to him because I think even he could tell the sword was weakening, with it being able to barely hold his power. Hell, Rin's flames used to just appear in a coating around him, now the flames are leaking out from his mouth, coming from his inside. Is his demon heart starting to slip back out? Probably just a non-significant detail but Kato is notorious for pulling stuff like this
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: facets-and-rainbows on June 02, 2016, 03:49:13 AM
Another thing I remembered is Bon's father talking about that if anything goes wrong with the sword he should take it to him because I think even he could tell the sword was weakening, with it being able to barely hold his power. Hell, Rin's flames used to just appear in a coating around him, now the flames are leaking out from his mouth, coming from his inside. Is his demon heart starting to slip back out? Probably just a non-significant detail but Kato is notorious for pulling stuff like this

I've been wondering that, and I've also been wondering when exactly it was that she started doing slit pupils for him all the time when his sword is drawn.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: earthforge on June 02, 2016, 04:05:24 AM
^ Rin seems to only "spit fire" when he's angry (ch 61) or inebriated (ch 19). The slit pupils when sword-drawn seems to date back to the first chapter.

Still, Rin might be unintentionally excessive in drawing his sword. True, it's his only way to fight, but it displays his demon heart constantly, which Mephy says is a no-no. The Kurikara is Rin's life.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Madow on June 02, 2016, 06:37:09 PM
It was way back then but his eyes were no where near as sharp as Mephisto's. Now they're nearly identical

It's meant to be used a last resort but it's Rin only form of attack. Sure, he has superhuman strength  but I think that would be too messy for him lol The only thing making him survive fighting with his sword is his enemies not knowing the heart is inside, only person he fought that knew was Amaimon
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: chinonamida on June 04, 2016, 06:16:06 PM
The slit pupils when sword-drawn seems to date back to the first chapter.
Wasn't the first time he had slit pupils in chapter 4 with the reaper? And his sword wasn't even drawn.

It was way back then but his eyes were no where near as sharp as Mephisto's. Now they're nearly identical
I wonder if it could have something to do with the ambient light; like it actualy does for real animals with slit pupils.
Maybe the more flames there is, the more blinding light there is and the more narrow his pupils are.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: MetallicArcher on June 04, 2016, 11:11:36 PM
I wonder if it could have something to do with the ambient light; like it actualy does for real animals with slit pupils.
Maybe the more flames there is, the more blinding light there is and the more narrow his pupils are.

Could be.

Also, Hi! @chino, it's been a while.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Madow on June 05, 2016, 11:01:13 AM
Quote
I wonder if it could have something to do with the ambient light; like it actualy does for real animals with slit pupils.
Maybe the more flames there is, the more blinding light there is and the more narrow his pupils are.

That is probably right, would tie in with the fact that the more flames he uses the more demonic his appearance becomes. Like his horns streak back and become longer, his teeth get more jagged and is it just me or does his ears also get bigger too?
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: chinonamida on June 05, 2016, 09:27:02 PM
^Don't give me too much credit, I was half joking.

It's true some demon traits seem to amplify along with how much power they use.

And about Rin's powers still somewhat being sealed, I agree that's possible. I remember Satan in chapter one saying something about breaking the sword to free Rin from the seal, though Mephisto said that would kill him...

Also, Hi! @chino, it's been a while.
Hi, Archer.
Yeah, I quickly went through and back from hell again, this time I hope I'll be free to comment on the new chapter. X)
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Madow on June 05, 2016, 11:48:28 PM
I would take anything Mephisto says with a grain of salt, he lied about Izumo's sister, I doubt this wouldn't be any different. When he means destroy I would think it would have to be something strong enough to desroy both the sword and the heart at once and yeah Satan said "Break the curse" I believe
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: MetallicArcher on June 06, 2016, 12:28:14 PM
Yeah, I'm trusting less and less what anyone says in this manga. Starting to expect Kato any moment will pull a "They lied!" plot twist.

That said, Satan did try to break the sword BEFORE it had ever been unsheathed. So it might have been different than breaking it now.
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: chinonamida on June 08, 2016, 01:06:23 AM
I would take anything Mephisto says with a grain of salt, he lied about Izumo's sister, I doubt this wouldn't be any different. When he means destroy I would think it would have to be something strong enough to desroy both the sword and the heart at once and yeah Satan said "Break the curse" I believe
Right, translation divergences, I remember now.

Satan says:

ああ、そーだ、コイツ(剣)も破壊しなきゃな。お前をこのクソ忌々しい呪縛から解き放ってやる!!!!

ああ[Ah]、そーだ[that's right]、コイツ[furigana: this one](剣[kanji: sword])も[too]破壊[destroy]しなきゃ[must be]な[hun?]。お前[You]を[*object marker*]この[this]クソ[shity]忌々しい[annoying]呪縛[seal/curse/spell]から[from]解き放って[free]やる[I'll do it for you *condescending tone*]!!!!

Ah, that's right, this one too must be destroyed, hun? (T/N: Furigana reads: "this one". Kanji reads: "sword".) I'll make you free from this annoying shity curse!!!!

Mephisto says:

この剣の中には貴方の"悪魔の心臓"が封印されている。心臓は悪魔の急所です。破壊されれば、必ず死ぬ。

この[This]剣[sword]の['s]中[middle/center]に[in]は[what is]貴方[you]の[-r]"悪魔[demon]の['s]心臓[heart]"が[*subject marker*]封印[seal]されている[is being]。心臓[Heart]は[*subject marker*]悪魔[demon]の['s]急所[vital point]です[is]。破壊[destroy]されれ[be]ば[if]、必ず[certainly]死ぬ[die]。

What is being sealed inside this sword is your "demon heart". The heart is a demon's vital point. If it is destroyed, the demon would certainly die.


Both use "破壊" which means "destroy", like in "大量破壊兵器" "weapon of mass destruction".
But Satan only talked about the sword while Mephisto talked about the heart inside the sword.
Then again, it seems to me Mephisto said it in a way that made it sound like the sword shouldn't be destroyed (since that's what I actually remembered him saying before I looked back).
But that might be part of his plan, so Rin doesn't destroy the sword and free himself from the seal.
That is if my theory is right.

That said, Satan did try to break the sword BEFORE it had ever been unsheathed. So it might have been different than breaking it now.
That too. I also wonder, even now, if there's a difference between breaking the sword while it's unsheathed and while it's sheathed. Because of the portal to Gehenna in the sheath thing...
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Madow on June 08, 2016, 05:47:17 PM
Right, translation divergences, I remember now.

Satan says:

ああ、そーだ、コイツ(剣)も破壊しなきゃな。お前をこのクソ忌々しい呪縛から解き放ってやる!!!!


Ah, that's right, this one too must be destroyed, hun? (T/N: Furigana reads: "this one". Kanji reads: "sword".) I'll make you free from this annoying shity curse!!!!

That said, Satan did try to break the sword BEFORE it had ever been unsheathed. So it might have been different than breaking it now.
That too. I also wonder, even now, if there's a difference between breaking the sword while it's unsheathed and while it's sheathed. Because of the portal to Gehenna in the sheath thing...

What's most interesting to me is the " this one too must be destroyed". What other thing did Satan destroy? Or is it just some japanese grammer thing?

And I'd say there is a huge difference when the sword is unsheathed and sheathed. When the sword is sheathed, the heart is stationary and not active. Pretty much dormant. When it is drawn, the heart starts to "pump" delivering Rin's flames to Assiah. If the sword is destroyed when it's active, thats all of Rin's power cut off at once and I wonder if his connection to Gehenna would be cut off as well. Would that have an impact on Rin?
If Rins sword is destroyed when sheathed then I could guess that he would probabaly survive? Not really sure on that, could be a hit or miss
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: NeeNee on June 08, 2016, 06:04:41 PM
Right, translation divergences, I remember now.

Satan says:

ああ、そーだ、コイツ(剣)も破壊しなきゃな。お前をこのクソ忌々しい呪縛から解き放ってやる!!!!


Ah, that's right, this one too must be destroyed, hun? (T/N: Furigana reads: "this one". Kanji reads: "sword".) I'll make you free from this annoying shity curse!!!!

That said, Satan did try to break the sword BEFORE it had ever been unsheathed. So it might have been different than breaking it now.
That too. I also wonder, even now, if there's a difference between breaking the sword while it's unsheathed and while it's sheathed. Because of the portal to Gehenna in the sheath thing...

What's most interesting to me is the " this one too must be destroyed". What other thing did Satan destroy? Or is it just some japanese grammer thing?

Shiro, I guess?
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: Madow on June 26, 2016, 03:28:27 PM
^Guess that would make most sense
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: candy on November 07, 2016, 03:06:08 PM
okay so is it possible that when (not if) rin's sword is broken the "rin" that we all know and love will be "killed" but the demon's heart will return to the body, allowing demon!rin to take over? we sort of saw that demon!rin in his fight against the impure king...when rin was battling with his instincts to destroy everything now that his power has been released???
Title: Re: True forms of demons
Post by: GregoryRaino on October 01, 2022, 09:43:49 AM
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